Ministers threatened with jail and thousands in fines for refusing to marry gays

[YeShallTread]

What about the morality of marrying all those strangers without proper pre marital counseling?

A pastor can certainly counsel a couple or....a pastor can simply marry a couple. There is no lack of morality in joining a man and woman in the eyes of God...which is the pastors responsibility with or without counseling.

The lack of morality is when someone considers himself/herself to be a "man of God" while they stand before a same-sex couple holding a Holy Bible and "in the eyes of God" believe they sanction a marriage...an abomination! The couple AND the pastor all need counseling.

It is also an abomination for our legal system to FORCE a true man of God to officiate at the marriage of those that are simply slapping God in the face. That is all their "marriage" amounts to!!!

 

[YeShallTread]

Could you be so kind as to provide and explain to us the verses in the Bible, and specifically ones directly quoting Jesus, that pertain to marriage?

Dear 17 year old California dreamer. I will be so kind as to point you to the fact of both old and new testaments are the Words of Jesus Christ.

 

[YeShallTread]

Just like getting married in a same-sex wedding identifies a person as a homosexual...

<sigh> Discriminating against the behavior of a certain group, is discriminating against that group.

And is forcing a pastor to marry same-sex couples discriminating against the pastor that KNOWS it is an abomination? What happened to his rights? Oh, I forgot...they don't matter as long as homosexuals get their way. Evil over good is just fine in the eyes of some...but not all.

 

[YeShallTread]

People murdering each other is natural. You should choose an alternate word if you want to describe something a homosexual marriage isn't. It is, in fact, natural.

Paul, it isn't up to man to describe what a homosexual marriage is. God has spoken. Homosexuality is an abomination. The idea of there actually being a "marriage" would be laughable if it wasn't really, really sick!

 

[JayFern]

Are there no civil marriage ceremonies in the US which has nothing to do with religion? Registry Offices?

 

[JayFern]

Paul, it isn't up to man to describe what a homosexual marriage is. God has spoken

No God did not speak, men said God spoke and you believe them, why?

 

[trunks2k]

Are there no civil marriage ceremonies in the US which has nothing to do with religion? Registry Offices?

There are plenty. Different states have different rules on who may officiate a ceremony, but they all allow for non-religious options - i.e. at least a judge or a justice of the peace. Some states allow an individual to pay a fee and be allowed to officiate a single ceremony. In most places you can ask for a list of local officiants from the office that you would get your marriage license.

IMO, I think it's arcane. All that should be necessary is a witness and a notary.

The business in question was essentially doing so as well. While the people involved were allowed to officiate because they were ordained, they had previously advertised performing secular ceremonies.

 

[YeShallTread]

I doubt Jesus would preach such disdain for his fellow man. Certainly not the Jesus who said:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

Your use of the above verse shows disdain for His Word if you are using it in relation to homosexual marriages.

 

[bhsmte]

Dear 17 year old California dreamer. I will be so kind as to point you to the fact of both old and new testaments are the Words of Jesus Christ.

Any reason you had a need to point out her age?

The poster in question, has demonstrated, she is one of the most mature, honest and intelligent posters on this board.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Edit - deleting the contents of this post and moving forward with the lovely day.

 

[AirPo]

The issue isn't the rightness or wrongness of homosexual behavior. The issue is whether or not people who believe it to be a sin should be forced to help others celebrate it or facilitate it such as performing wedding services

Actually that's not the issue, nobody is being forced to do anything. The issue is equality, one of the concepts our country is based on. Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[AirPo]

A pastor can certainly counsel a couple or....a pastor can simply marry a couple. There is no lack of morality in joining a man and woman in the eyes of God...which is the pastors responsibility with or without counseling.

The lack of morality is when someone considers himself/herself to be a "man of God" while they stand before a same-sex couple holding a Holy Bible and "in the eyes of God" believe they sanction a marriage...an abomination! The couple AND the pastor all need counseling.

It is also an abomination for our legal system to FORCE a true man of God to officiate at the marriage of those that are simply slapping God in the face. That is all their "marriage" amounts to!!!

The thing is, the issue has nothing to do with "the eyes of God." There is also the fact that nobody is being forced to do anything.

 

[MachZer0]

I agree that the issue is not about the rightness of wrongness of homosexual behavior. The issue at the crux of this matter is regarding the nature of the Hitching Post's nearly century-old for-profit business and the expectation that they comply with the anti-discrimation ordinances other public accommodation for-profit businesses in their city are expected to follow. As I explained to you in this post I do not object to houses of worships setting and uniformly enforcing standards that are in accordance with their religious beliefs. If a synagogue refuses to marry a Muslim and a Christian because they only wish to officiate over the union of Jews, that's their entitlement; if a Catholic church refuses to marry a homosexual couple, I believe that's their right. The Hitching Post has historically operated as a "public accommodation" business and is still currently classified as such, which requires them to accommodate all members of the public who legally qualify for the service they provide. From what they've disclosed about their business practices, they have not adhered to a multitude of doctrines regarding Christian marriage. The Knapps operated a for-profit business and they operated it like a for-profit business instead of a Christian one for decades upon decades. They looked like a duck, acted like a duck, quacked like a duck, and as soon as they were told they had to obey the rules of their pond like all the other duckies they insisted they were swans deserving special treatment.
I'd still be more sympathetic to them if they hadn't resorted to well-documented subterfuge and theatrics.

If the Hitching Post converts to a non-profit religious organization they will be exempt from the anti-discrimination ordinance. They could have quietly gone about filing the necessary paperwork to accomplish this right, but it appears they were basking in the warm glow of the spotlight centered on the melodrama they manufactured. As suspected from the get-go, the media hubbub surrounding this case was primarily to strum up publicity and illicit the support of all those folks who just enjoy puffing up their chest, stomping their feet, and screaming persecution before rationally verifying any facts. The premise of this entire thread was based on hyperbole and the bullying accusations were meritless.



http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen..._in_the_idaho_for_profit_wedding_chapel_story

A nearly century old business was opened at a time when the idea of homosexuals getting married was unheard of. Changing the law to now force them to accommodate homosexual weddings is like a bait and switch

 

[NightHawkeye]

The thing is, the issue has nothing to do with "the eyes of God."

The ministers here are in apparent disagreement.

There is also the fact that nobody is being forced to do anything.

The lawsuit seeking injunctive relief was filed in order to ensure that remains true.

 

[MachZer0]

No matter how many times you repeat it, telling all businesses they must abide by the same laws is not bullying.

No matter how many times its denied, forcing business owners to violate their religious beliefs is the worst kind of bullying compounded by the fact that it comes from the allegedly tolerant segment of society

 

[elliott95]

Is that how you remember the assurances towards religious institutions? "We're going to make a law, but if you don't like it, feel free to ignore it?"

The law of the land was that SSM was to be made legal. Proponents assured everybody that this would not mean that anyone was going to be forced to do anything against their conscience.

That was a lie.

Progressives are shoving their values down every bodies throats and using the law to do it..

Feel free to mock and laugh at will. That is a form of bullying too.

 

[AirPo]

The ministers here are in apparent disagreement.

Isn't America great! Even though they are wrong, they are free to voice their opinion.

The lawsuit seeking injunctive relief was filed in order to ensure that remains true.

They are even free to get suckered by a shyster lawyer to file a frivolous lawsuit.

 

[AirPo]

No matter how many times its denied, forcing business owners to violate their religious beliefs is the worst kind of bullying compounded by the fact that it comes from the allegedly tolerant segment of society

Good thing nobody is being forced to violate their religious beliefs.

 

[abysmul]

I wonder how Jesus would have reacted if he found ministers/priests running a business, making money, in a house of worship?

Oh, wait...

 

[AirPo]

I wonder how Jesus would have reacted if he found ministers/priests running a business, making money, in a house of worship?

Oh, wait...

... it's not a house of worship.

Well maybe a worship of money, but I don't think that counts. (no pun intended. )