Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[VictorC]

next we have the point that within that christian church - in these last days has come to be a "remnant" -- in Belief 13

This is the very point where you admit the SDA church isn't a denomination.

 

[VictorC]

first we have full affirmation and identification with the Christian church.

Belief 12
=======================

The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of
God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruc
-
tion in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation
of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are
the written Word. The church is God’s family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new cove
-
nant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for
whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious
church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish.
(Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

Read this FB more carefully. Where does this generic creed diffuse the language claiming to be a remnant in FB #13?
Nowhere.
It only claims there's a community of faith, which is the same description used for CF. That doesn't specify the community sharing the same faith. Does this FB accept other denominations to be equal as Christian?
Not really.
Delving deeper into the rabbit hole of Adventism exposes your church's regard for Christian denominations to be daughters of the harlot:

Babylon is said to be “the mother of harlots.” By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God’s people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith.

Adventism's eschatology is so twisted that it just doesn't find acceptance in the community of faith, and it is from that launching pad that the SDA church demeans every denomination of the Christian faith. Adventism does not accept others as equal in God's acceptance when it applies its own erroneous litmus test of compliance with the Mosaic covenant.

You never did address the content of my post. What is it that David Cloud identified as the foundational heresy the SDA church has never addressed and rectified?

 

[VictorC]

You're the one who proclaimed your membership, when others observed the likelyhood that your identity as an Adventist would explain the underlying reason you don't post the truth. Your reversal of roles would be an ad hominem fallacy that no one has suggested - except you.

You need to read what I responded to. That is if you care for the truth and I am not treated this way because I am SDA.

Your post is a non sequitur that appeals once again to an imagined fallacy of argumentum ad hominem you alone employ here.
I have read all of your posts on this thread - including where you contradict yourself and Scripture. Caring for the truth would cause one to consider these contradictions and wonder what its cause is. Isn't this really the reason you're unwilling to have the SDA label on your moniker?

 

[BobRyan]

Apparently isolated words of religious leaders are more believable then Moses for they do not agree.

Moses is firm about the same fact that they affirm here - #1 which is that the Sabbath was made holy at creation - so we find in Ex 20:11 and so we find in Gen 2:1-3 and so even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admit to the glaringly obvious Bible detail.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Read this FB more carefully. Where does this generic creed diffuse the language claiming to be a remnant in FB #13?
?

It would be utterly nonsensical for them to argue that to be a remnant within the Christian church among all the denominations that now exist - they must nonsensically try to diffuse the language about the remnant.

I think we can all see that by now.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[listed]

Moses is firm about the same fact that they affirm here - #1 which is that the Sabbath was made holy at creation - so we find in Ex 20:11 and so we find in Gen 2:1-3 and so even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admit to the glaringly obvious Bible detail.

in Christ,

Bob

Why do you reject Moses?

 

[listed]

It would be utterly nonsensical for them to argue that to be a remnant within the Christian church among all the denominations that now exist - they must nonsensically try to diffuse the language about the remnant.

I think we can all see that by now.

in Christ,

Bob

Can , no rather will you defuse the remnant question?

 

[VictorC]

In fact I debunked your point leaving you with nothing to support your speculation.

The problems with this statement are manifold.

• You haven't responded to the content of my post, having deleted everything pertinent and reducing the residue to incomplete sentences devoid of context.
• You've relegated the language of SDA Fundamental Belief to 'speculation', unable to reconcile your claims with it.
• You rely on your personal ignorance of linguistic terms that are mutually exclusive, and can't provide a coherent comment when confronted with them.
• When you are confronted with Scripture, your response is to discard it and enter your speculation from unrelated passages, operating from a premise that Scripture contradicts Scripture - this you have done often in the past, and still continue to do.

In short, you're sure to satisfy yourself, but you're unable to defend your argument that we should discard Adventism's claim to be a remnant and accept it as a denomination. That is codified by the SDA church itself, and we can't do that.

 

[VictorC]

Moses is firm about the same fact that they affirm here - #1 which is that the Sabbath was made holy at creation - so we find in Ex 20:11 and so we find in Gen 2:1-3 and so even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admit to the glaringly obvious Bible detail.

Why are you contradicting the testimony Moses provided for the origin of the Sabbath? Or Jesus, or Nehemiah?
Oh - lest I forget:

• What is it that David Cloud identified as the foundational heresy the SDA church has never addressed and rectified?
• What is a "Sunday keeper"?

 

[Exodus20]

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them." {Matthew 5:17}
"The Law" being the first five books of the Bible--the writings of Moses, and the rest being "the Prophets."
And to say that Jesus went on in that passage to say that He was going to abolish them by His death makes Him the author of confusion.

"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us..." {2 Timothy 3:16}
(There's not a translation on earth that says, "Only New Testament Scripture is inspired by God...")

Christ Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and thus is NOT against the God Breathed scriptures ! The Thread starter needs to read , and heed what the Lord Jesus Himself said in Matthew 5: 17-19.

If the thread starter is actually a blood-bought , born-again, Bible-believing Christian --- then right now - today - would be a good idea to repent , and recant from the O.P.!

 

[listed]

Christ Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and thus is NOT against the God Breathed scriptures ! The Thread starter needs to read , and heed what the Lord Jesus Himself said in Matthew 5: 17-19.

If the thread starter is actually a blood-bought , born-again, Bible-believing Christian --- then right now - today - would be a good idea to repent , and recant from the O.P.!

Maybe he should read LK 24:44 I found in my Bible. It takes care of the Mat 5:17-19 argument very well.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[Elder 111]

Your claim on this verse is it says Jesus is the Father and the Son. This is not true as the Gospels evidence. It also does not uphold the FoB's of your church. It is proof that article in your FoB is a fraud as it is not believed nor taught in practice.

Show me where I made that claim!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Show me where I made that claim!

You clearly stated that Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.

 

[listed]

Show me where I made that claim!

What is your claim in posting JN 10:30? Is it not to show that Jesus is the Father and issued the 10 Cs? Jn 1:17 says no. Jesus did not talk to Moses at Sinai. Moses talked with Someone Who would send His Son. This can be traced through the Scripture starting from Gen 3:15. The text shows 2 different individuals and only one of them is speaking. Gen 1:26 shows multiple entities being involved. Rev 4 does not give Jesus credit for creation.

 

[listed]

You clearly stated that Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.

He thinks we can not follow a conversation.

 

[listed]

Is it your speculation that the appeal to the writings of Moses in Ex 20:11 and Gen 2:1-3 is the way that one "rejects Moses"??

Really???

Seriously???

How "instructive" for the rest of us.

in Christ,

Bob

No, but the refusal to accept Deut 4:13 and 5:3 does.

 

[VictorC]

You clearly stated that Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.

Hey guys...
I don't have a problem with the thesis that Jesus gave the Mosaic covenant both orally and in written form to the children of Israel. I prefer that, since Jesus identified Himself as the One Who spoke to Moses from the burning bush according to John 8:58 by the Title spoken to Moses.
Having said that...
I pointed out to Elder111 that since Jesus was the One Who issued the Mosaic covenant, He naturally retains sovereignty over the Law He issued. Scripture attributes God's disposition of the Mosaic covenant to actions performed by Jesus.
Elder111 has never responded to the authority Jesus retains to Himself.

 

[listed]

Exodus 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Moses reenforces Genesis 2 that God rested on the seventh day, not sabbath day. Moses went on to say...this is why (therefore) the Lord blessed the sabbath and commands for you to keep it holy.
The fact remains that what God blessed and sanctified at creation cannot be defiled by man. But God accuses those He first gave the Sabbath of defiling it, from the first week they recieved it.

Agreed

 

[listed]

Hey guys...
I don't have a problem with the thesis that Jesus gave the Mosaic covenant both orally and in written form to the children of Israel. I prefer that, since Jesus identified Himself as the One Who spoke to Moses from the burning bush according to John 8:58 by the Title spoken to Moses.
Having said that...
I pointed out to Elder111 that since Jesus was the One Who issued the Mosaic covenant, He naturally retains sovereignty over the Law He issued. Scripture attributes God's disposition of the Mosaic covenant to actions performed by Jesus.
Elder111 has never responded to the authority Jesus retains to Himself.

When did the Seed come?

 

[VictorC]

When did the Seed come?

We all know the promised Seed came through the loins of Abraham. That doesn't deflect attention to the point I made, which refers to the pre-incarnate nature of the Messiah Jesus - of Whom Hebrews 10 describes in this manner:

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”​

When He came into the world, He had a body prepared for Him, meaning He lives before that body existed. This is entirely consistent with John 8:58 recording the way Jesus took possession of the Title "I AM" the audience all recognized as the Name presented to Moses - the reason they took up stones with intent of bodily harm on Jesus.