Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[VictorC]

Until you actually read our fundamental beliefs including 13.

Which I have. Until you read the Fundamental Beliefs and verify for yourself that Adventism claims to be the sole remnant in the midst of "widespread apostasy" in FB #13, it is clear that you're misrepresenting the seventh-day Adventist church. Adventism doesn't claim to be a Christian denomination.

Until you actually read the statement of the majority of even pro-sunday keeping scholarship on the subject of the TEN commandments admitting to the obvious Bible fact that keeping the Ten Commandments is in perfect harmony with the Gospel of salvation taught by Christ and all the OT saints. As we ALL saw here - #1

Why do you continue to make stuff up to the point of even violating CF participation rules??

in Christ,

Bob

When your opinions gleaned from extra-Biblical sources are compared with Scripture, they are found to be in error. This is no doubt the reason you won't address posts that contain a Biblical argument in kind. Your own premise of a "pro-sunday keeping scholarship" is a oxymoron in deference to Biblical Christianity, which doesn't "keep" a day of the week. This straw-man is your own invention, and you haven't responded to multiple queries asking you what a "Sunday keeper" is.

I will state it again: old-covenant Christianity is a oxymoron that doesn't exist in reality. That is a distinct characteristic of groups such as the SDA church and its natural offspring, the Branch Davidians and Shepherd's Rod cults.

 

[listed]

When you say the entire OT is invalid, you are promoting sin, because that is where God defined sin. The NT doesnt have its own separate laws, they are all command pulled from the OT.

Please quote me on that with a source. Jesus gave a new commandment. That would mean the NT does have its own distinct commands.

 

[Elder 111]

Ummmmm. Jehovah? Strangely enough, the Bible never states that Jesus wrote the 10 words, but gives the credit to Jehovah.

I and my father are one. John 10:30.

 

[listed]

No one is ignoring the Gospel. Like it not or Christians DO follow the law (outside of the ceremonial and sacrificial that were abolished). Dont lie, steal, kill, worship other Gods, refrain from sexual immorality, dont covet, Love one another, respect your parents are all part of the law. We are exempt from animal sacrifices and burnt offerings as they have been fulfilled and replaced by Christ.

The law cant save you and will never give Salvation, but ignoring it (the parts that apply to us) and saying you dont ned to follow any of Gods commands is where Jesus will tell many he didnt know them for being lawless. Jesus tells us to keep the commandments, which are summed up as Love God and Love one another, but they are a summary, not a cancellation of everything else.

Not so fast there. Many non believers (non Christians) don't lie, kill and refrain from sexual immorality. Your argument is empty.

Being that Jesus did not bring the law (JN 1:17) besides the statements found in Rom 6:14, 15; 7:6; 10:4; Gal 4 and 5 prove without doubt Christians are not subject to the law.

 

[listed]

Until you actually read our fundamental beliefs including 13.



Until you actually read the statement of the majority of even pro-sunday keeping scholarship on the subject of the TEN commandments admitting to the obvious Bible fact that keeping the Ten Commandments is in perfect harmony with the Gospel of salvation taught by Christ and all the OT saints. As we ALL saw here - #1

Why do you continue to make stuff up to the point of even violating CF participation rules??

in Christ,

Bob

Yeah, right VictorC is just pulling FB# right out of the air for no apparent reason. I would bet he has read them all.

 

[Elder 111]

Are you admitting you do not understand either word?

Why not submit some proof Jesus did? I do not believe you can. It has already been shown here that Jesus did not and ignored. I say ignored because I have never seen any discussion about the Scripture presented proving Jesus did not write them. For instance where is the refutation of John 1:17? It clearly states Jesus did not bring the law including the 10 Cs.

No! That is not so! You better read that again!

 

[ananda]

I and my father are one. John 10:30.

Is Jesus talking about Jehovah, or El Elyon?

 

[Elder 111]

Did I say they were not Christian or something? Are the SDA found on the list you refer to? Why are you displaying a generic Christian faith symbol if the SDA are Christian? To me and others you are saying they are not while confessing you are SDA. In refusing to identify with them by faith icon here would suggest you are either hiding or saying they are not. If it is to hide in order to get people to agree with you, you are intentionally trying to deceive. Only the wicked love cover (darkness) to hide. Even Adam did this very thing. My dogs do it too.

So if I say that I am SDA others will automatically disagree with me but if I don't say they may agree? Is that what you are saying?
That would mean that if I speak the truth as an SDA it will not matter to others, it will be rejected but to do so without stating that I am SDA may get approval. That is sad!

 

[VictorC]

So if I say that I am SDA others will automatically disagree with me but if I don't say they may agree? Is that what you are saying?
That would mean that if I speak the truth as an SDA it will not matter to others, it will be rejected but to do so without stating that I am SDA may get approval. That is sad!

You're the one who proclaimed your membership, when others observed the likelyhood that your identity as an Adventist would explain the underlying reason you don't post the truth. Your reversal of roles would be an ad hominem fallacy that no one has suggested - except you.

 

[VictorC]

Yeah, right VictorC is just pulling FB# right out of the air for no apparent reason. I would bet he has read them all.

I provided the link to the PDF published by the SDA church. Here it is again: Fundamental Beliefs. Anyone can verify what they say from the horse's mouth itself.

 

[VictorC]

I and my father are one. John 10:30.

I'm the one working with the premise that Jesus issued the Mosaic covenant, and you don't seem able to handle the conclusion that this gives Him authority over it as the King sovereign to a covenant He issued to His vassal.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm the one working with the premise that Jesus issued the Mosaic covenant

And it is the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship that is working with the Bible fact that the Ten Commandments were given to mankind in Eden with the Sabbath Commandment in full force before the fall - and the 10 Commandments still applicable to the saints today.

How "odd then" that you try to spin your opposition to even the majority of pro-sunday scholars - as if it were just an issue for SDAs. As we all saw here - #1

And how "instructive" at the same time.

God says "I do not change" in Malachi 4 and in Hebrews 13 Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever.

No wonder Christ upholds the OT as "The Word of God" that is not to be challenged by man-made tradition in Mark 7:6-13.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Are SDAs not Christians?

They are Christians, but simply have a wrong understanding about the need to follow the old law and the old covenant. No doubt they would circumcise, if our bible didn't specifically cite circumcision as no longer needed.

 

[BobRyan]

first we have full affirmation and identification with the Christian church.

Belief 12
=======================

The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of
God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruc
-
tion in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation
of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are
the written Word. The church is God’s family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new cove
-
nant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for
whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious
church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish.
(Gen. 12:3; Acts 7:38; Eph. 4:11-15; 3:8-11; Matt. 28:19, 20; 16:13-20; 18:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1:22, 23; 5:23-27; Col. 1:17, 18.)

 

[BobRyan]

next we have the point that within that christian church - in these last days has come to be a "remnant" -- in Belief 13

================================

The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a
remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival
of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation
is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work
of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17;
14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)

 

[Elder 111]

You're the one who proclaimed your membership, when others observed the likelyhood that your identity as an Adventist would explain the underlying reason you don't post the truth. Your reversal of roles would be an ad hominem fallacy that no one has suggested - except you.

You need to read what I responded to. That is if you care for the truth and I am not treated this way because I am SDA.

 

[listed]

I and my father are one. John 10:30.

Your claim on this verse is it says Jesus is the Father and the Son. This is not true as the Gospels evidence. It also does not uphold the FoB's of your church. It is proof that article in your FoB is a fraud as it is not believed nor taught in practice.

 

[listed]

And it is the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship that is working with the Bible fact that the Ten Commandments were given to mankind in Eden with the Sabbath Commandment in full force before the fall - and the 10 Commandments still applicable to the saints today.

How "odd then" that you try to spin your opposition to even the majority of pro-sunday scholars - as if it were just an issue for SDAs. As we all saw here - #1

And how "instructive" at the same time.

God says "I do not change" in Malachi 4 and in Hebrews 13 Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever.

No wonder Christ upholds the OT as "The Word of God" that is not to be challenged by man-made tradition in Mark 7:6-13.

in Christ,

Bob

Apparently isolated words of religious leaders are more believable then Moses for they do not agree.

 

[listed]

You need to read what I responded to. That is if you care for the truth and I am not treated this way because I am SDA.

Then use the SDA faith icon.

 

[VictorC]

And yet found not one single word in favor of your false accusation.

Posting a redundant claim that you refuted in your own statement shows others that you're providing volume instead of content.