A finely tuned universe that points to a God.

[selfinflikted]

Would the term 'universe' imply that there is only one?

It doesn't imply it - it states it explicitly. That doesn't mean there aren't more, though.

 

[Michael]

It doesn't imply it - it states it explicitly. That doesn't mean there aren't more, though.

It just seem silly to require someone to "demonstrate" that the term "universe" is wrong and meaningless. If there's no evidence to support the notion that more than one universe exists, it only seems reasonable to assume there is but one universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

It just seem silly to require someone to "demonstrate" that the term "universe" is wrong and meaningless. If there's no evidence to support the notion that more than one universe exists, it only seems reasonable to assume there is but one universe.

Universe can also apply to what is observable. If other universes are hidden behind event horizons, then it would be correct to describe them as other universes.

 

[selfinflikted]

It just seem silly to require someone to "demonstrate" that the term "universe" is wrong and meaningless. If there's no evidence to support the notion that more than one universe exists, it only seems reasonable to assume there is but one universe.

I am sooo not up to date on the whole "multiverse" thing, so I can't even really begin to comment here. I agree that if there's no evidence of a thing, the reasonable position is that it doesn't exist. That said, I would assume there are reasons for a multiverse hypothesis. I just don't know what they are.

I do know that some scientists think, or used to think, that the "other side" of whatever is inside a black hole could be another universe. It makes sense, in a way, that if our universe started from a singularity - and black holes possibly contain singularities - that there may be other universes around, just under our noses. Who knows?

 

[Michael]

Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Universe is all of spacetime and everything that exists therein, including all planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, the smallest subatomic particles, and all matter and energy.[1][2][3][4][5][6] Similar terms include the cosmos, the world, reality, and nature.
The estimated diameter of the observable universe is about 93 billion light years or 28 billion parsecs.[7]

The term 'observable universe' is typically used to differentiate between the stuff we can observe, and the stuff we cannot observe from Earth, so I don't really buy the "observable" argument.

It "seems" like the onus of responsibility to produce supporting evidence is still on the individual who's promoting a multiverse scenario.

 

[Michael]

FYI, I've already pointed out in this thread that I personally think a 'tuned' argument is a very weak argument.

 

[Loudmouth]

Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The term 'observable universe' is typically used to differentiate between the stuff we can observe, and the stuff we cannot observe from Earth, so I don't really buy the "observable" argument.

It "seems" like the onus of responsibility to produce supporting evidence is still on the individual who's promoting a multiverse scenario.

Then use whatever term you need to use to describe different bubbles of spacetime that have different fundamental constants.

 

[Michael]

Then use whatever term you need to use to describe different bubbles of spacetime that have different fundamental constants.

You're basically still talking about a multiverse theory, without any actual evidence that any other "spacetimes" with different constants exist.

 

[Loudmouth]

You're basically still talking about a multiverse theory, without any actual evidence that any other "spacetimes" with different constants exist.

We also lack evidence disproving their existence. The fine tuning argument requires that our universe is the only one, or one of very few relative few. We don't have the evidence to back up this assumption.

Imagine if you defined the universe as the Earth. You argue that the chances of getting a planet capable of supporting life are really slim. Later, you realize your folly. There are trillions of planets, and the odds of getting a planet like Earth are nearly guaranteed.

 

[Michael]

We also lack evidence disproving their existence.

The same could be said for the topic of God, but your wouldn't expect someone to *demonstrate* that there is no God, would you?

The fine tuning argument requires that our universe is the only one, or one of very few relative few.

We only observe one AFAIK.

 

[JimFit]

That is what you claim, and yet you don't present anything to back it up.

Back up what? I don't support that there is a machine like this.

The extremeness of the fine tuning is way overblown.

What do you mean by that?

 

[JimFit]

Isn't that what the fine tuning argument argues for? Doesn't it state that the constants we see in this universe could have been different?

If the Constants are not constants etc the gravitational constant why we can observe galaxies far away from us? What about the Hubble Constant?

Please provide evidence that other universes do not exist.

Do you seriously ask me to prove a negative??

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

We also lack evidence disproving their existence. The fine tuning argument requires that our universe is the only one, or one of very few relative few. We don't have the evidence to back up this assumption.

Imagine if you defined the universe as the Earth. You argue that the chances of getting a planet capable of supporting life are really slim. Later, you realize your folly. There are trillions of planets, and the odds of getting a planet like Earth are nearly guaranteed.

If the universe is one in a sphere stack of infinite equal sized universes then the universe is finely tuned by its border conditions and each universe is tuned exactly the same.

Dark energy would be ruled by the amount of space taken up by spheres vs space between. Maximum value of 74%. This was modern sciences first estimate of the dark energy expansive influence.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Would the term 'universe' imply that there is only one?

As I navigate it, Universe means: One set/word/phrase. A whole conveyance of information, nothing missing from the concept/conception.

Given God is infinite I would expect an infinite number of whole self expressions. And God is not done expressing the Word/s.

Each Word/universe is fulfilled.

 

[RichardParker]

I addressed all your points (which were illogical paradoxes by the way). The Only argument that you have against the Fine Tuning is that you don't accept it and you HOPE that it is due to chance or necessity, i answered for BOTH.

Nope, you didn't adress anything.
And your second comment about what you think my arguments are proves this.
Stop debating against the arguments you want me to make, and instead adress the things I've actually writen (or better: Don't just apply that to my arguments... do it with all arguments, because you show a clear tendency of ignoring all arguments that don't agree with your view, not just mine). Otherwise, you will never have a fruitfull conversation.

 

[Eudaimonist]

As I navigate it, Universe means: One set/word/phrase.

The word universe has no relation to the English word "verse". It doesn't refer to words.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[JimFit]

Nope, you didn't adress anything.
And your second comment about what you think my arguments are proves this.
Stop debating against the arguments you want me to make, and instead adress the things I've actually writen (or better: Don't just apply that to my arguments... do it with all arguments, because you show a clear tendency of ignoring all arguments that don't agree with your view, not just mine). Otherwise, you will never have a fruitfull conversation.

What arguments i didn't addressed? Please show me..

 

[RichardParker]

What arguments i didn't addressed? Please show me..

Go back and look at my postes.
It's not my job to repeat everything again, when you couldn't have been bothered to read it in the first place.

 

[Belk]

If the universe is one in a sphere stack of infinite equal sized universes then the universe is finely tuned by its border conditions and each universe is tuned exactly the same.

Dark energy would be ruled by the amount of space taken up by spheres vs space between. Maximum value of 74%. This was modern sciences first estimate of the dark energy expansive influence.

74% of what?

 

[Loudmouth]

The same could be said for the topic of God, but your wouldn't expect someone to *demonstrate* that there is no God, would you?

None of my arguments requires the absence of God. If they did, then I would have to disprove God.

We only observe one AFAIK.

Where is the evidence that we have observed all existing universes?