Holy Tradition. Please define it.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Albion
Oh, I don't think we can go that far. At least not if we're still discussing Tradition, and I think we are, since the Ever-Virgin doctrine is entirely based upon it.

And they might have been mentioned somewhere in the New Testament writings. And those children might logically enough have been mentioned by name, too. Oh wait, they were.

No, I can hardly put my faith in a decision to deny the evidence, but that is how "Tradition" works--selectively. That's why I've said before that it isn't even true to itself.

And it's why every church body that says it believes in Holy Tradition uses a different version of what that Tradition is--doing which refutes the concept of Tradition.

I quoted the above from another thread and thought it deserved it's own thread.

What exactly is Holy Tradition, and how many Christian denominations practice them, and how many different versions are there?



.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I really like this description:

Holy Tradition is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the Apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration or subtraction. Vladimir Lossky has famously described the Tradition as "the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church." It is dynamic in application, yet unchanging in dogma. It is growing in expression, yet ever the same in essence.​

I think the obvious answer in terms of who practices it, are the Apostolic Churches. Since Holy Tradition at it's core, encapsulates a certain foci. Typically that is the [singing, chanting] of the hymns within the liturgy and taking the Eucharist (Lord's Supper). There are variations on a tertiary level from church-to-church but at it's most basic level, this tradition is a common thread.

Churches with an Evangelical bend typically don't follow this pattern and either follow a tradition unique to their church and only their church, or unique to their specific evangelical denomination (e.g. Calvary Chapel).

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I really like this description:

Holy Tradition is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the Apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration or subtraction. Vladimir Lossky has famously described the Tradition as "the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church." It is dynamic in application, yet unchanging in dogma. It is growing in expression, yet ever the same in essence.​

That, at least, is the Orthodox/Tridentine (Gersonian) definition of Holy Tradition. But there are also Catholics and Anglicans who would hold to a developmental theory of tradition that still understands tradition as God-given but which permits genuinely new doctrines to evolve within the context of church history that can then be regarded as Holy Tradition.

 

[Hentenza]

I really like this description:

Holy Tradition is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the Apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration or subtraction. Vladimir Lossky has famously described the Tradition as "the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church." It is dynamic in application, yet unchanging in dogma. It is growing in expression, yet ever the same in essence.​

I think the obvious answer in terms of who practices it, are the Apostolic Churches. Since Holy Tradition at it's core, encapsulates a certain foci. Typically that is the [singing, chanting] of the hymns within the liturgy and taking the Eucharist (Lord's Supper). There are variations on a tertiary level from church-to-church but at it's most basic level, this tradition is a common thread.

Churches with an Evangelical bend typically don't follow this pattern and either follow a tradition unique to their church and only their church, or unique to their specific evangelical denomination (e.g. Calvary Chapel).

So which church's Holy Tradition has been passed on in the church without alteration, addition, or subtraction?

 

[bbbbbbb]

So which church's Holy Tradition has been passed on in the church without alteration, addition, or subtraction?

My question exactly. I do not know of a single denomination that can honestly say that they are absolutely identical to the first-century church.

 

[Rhamiel]

Holy Tradition is a set of beliefs that have been handed down from the time of the Apostles until today
for example, Sacred Scripture is a part of Holy Tradition.
how do you know that God gave us a set of books that were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Tradition

 

[Optimax]

Holy Tradition = Justification to do what a religious organization does when there is no scripture to back it up.

 

[Albion]

Holy Tradition is a set of beliefs that have been handed down from the time of the Apostles until today

Alas, that's the "problem" with Holy Tradition. While what you've written here is the theory, in practice it's not that way at all.

For one thing, we don't actually know if most of these extra-Biblical teachings have been handed down from the Apostles.

That's just something that's stipulated to by the churches that deal in Holy Tradition, usually on the basis of scattered comments attributed to a few church leaders of the first five or so centuries in church history; and these commentators are usually widely separated in time from each other.

For another, the commentators (saints) often disagree with each other. In those cases, the church simply chooses the opinion and the spokesmen that it wishes to use.

In sum, Holy Tradition allegedly has continuity and consistency, but neither are actually present.

Even if they were...there is no reason to suppose that God failed to make his wishes and instructions to us known through Scripture--which virtually every Christian church (including those that have added Holy Tradition) agrees is of divine origin and authority.

 

[Rick Otto]

In sum, Holy Tradition allegedly has continuity and consistency, but neither are actually present.

That sounds suspiciously like illusion &, or delusion.

 

[Albion]

That sounds suspiciously like illusion &, or delusion.

Hmm. Maybe. To say that would seem to acknowledge a certain sincerely and care, though, and I'm not sure that we can do that. Most institutions that seek to control their members by imposing various obligations upon them are doing so for the organization's benefit.

 

[Standing Up]

Holy Tradition is a set of beliefs that have been handed down from the time of the Apostles until today
for example, Sacred Scripture is a part of Holy Tradition.
how do you know that God gave us a set of books that were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Tradition

Is the bible a "set of beliefs" or a standard (rule of faith) to guide us as we establish a "set of beliefs"?

 

[Rhamiel]

Is the bible a "set of beliefs" or a standard (rule of faith) to guide us as we establish a "set of beliefs"?

the fact that you believe a collection of books contains the word of God, and you are fairly confident you who the specific collection of books that have this, shows that you believe in some form of Tradition and you view it as authoritative

 

[Albion]

the fact that you believe a collection of books contains the word of God

Most of us don't believe, as liberal theology now holds, that the Bible "CONTAINS" the word of God (mixed with the ponderings and theories of ordinary humans along with erroneous historical and literary references). We believe that it is divine revelation.

 

[Rhamiel]

I was not supporting liberal theology

I was merely pointing out that the idea of finding Divine Revelation in a collection of books (and what the cannon of that collection of books might be) is something that is contained in Tradition

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I quoted the above from another thread and thought it deserved it's own thread.
What exactly is Holy Tradition, and how many Christian denominations practice them, and how many different versions are there?
.

what is it? > what ever a denom makes it to be.
how many?> too many.
different? ..> too many.

my question. is there ANY "holy tradition" (for that matter, any tradition at all) practiced anywhere that is of Yhvh? (in line with all of Torah and Scripture, in His Power, in Truth).

upon testing, for forty years plus, Yhvh has revealed like He did to Yahshua to speak "the traditions of man have been used to trample underfoot the instructions of Yhvh" --- test everything, literally everything, like the Bereans --- make absolutely sure it is in line with Torah/Scripture before accepting anything, and have nothing to do with those who add to or take away from Scripture. Yhvh Willing, Yhvh Enabling, Yhvh Accomplishing. in Yahshua, by grace through faith, a gift of Yhvh.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My question exactly. I do not know of a single denomination that can honestly say that they are absolutely identical to the first-century church.

fwiw, for further investigation (for truth seekers, for those seeking Yhvh fully and completely)
watchman nee, cfp (original white cover publications),
showed thoroughly and completely and honestly and in line with all of Scripture,
peacefully !!!! (that's most amazing today)
that none of them as a group are righteous nor can any of them save anyone. (hindrance is the 'norm' today)

and, notably as different from most all others, how to have true and righteous fellowship with people who are in other groups, without being deceived by anyone. (true fellowship of the saints, in union in Yahshua).

 

[Albion]

I was not supporting liberal theology

I was merely pointing out that the idea of finding Divine Revelation in a collection of books (and what the cannon of that collection of books might be) is something that is contained in Tradition

I didn't think that you were. But you seemed to attribute it to us as part of your explanation about the connection between Scripture and Tradition, and I think that needs to be dispelled. As for Scripture or the canon being a product of "Holy Tradition," I see that being said by advocates of Holy Tradition, but it's incorrect.

 

[Rhamiel]

where did the cannon of scripture come from and why should it be seen as authoritative?

I have my own answers for these questions

 

[Albion]

where did the cannon of scripture come from and why should it be seen as authoritative?

You're describing traditions, not the concept that is called "Holy Tradition" or "Sacred Tradition."

In theory, it is a second (next to Scripture) and equal source of divine revelation that provides doctrine that's not included in Scripture.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

If what constitutes Tradition is supposedly expounded upon as unfolded to the "church" and in the last hundred years or so that they are still at the conception of Christ, then it will be another 2000 yrs before the resurrection ever comes into question and definition, so it seems.

Whereas, altho Protestants are not as given to as much obience of Mary they do hold her in high regard, yet the focus of worship or as it is tradition looks to the risen Christ.

iow
the way I see it:
tradition = forcus on Christ's death & Him in us
Tradition= focus on His birth