The Fall feasts.

[ARBITER01]

The only feast I observe is a feast on the word of GOD.

 

[murjahel]

In Zechariah 14, several times it tells us 'all nations' i.e. all peoples. They come to worship the Lord at the feast of the tabernacles... This is an eternal worship at the 'feast of the tabernacles' set up by the Lord.

The Jewish people originally thanked God for the deliverance from Egypt then... but now we see the prophetic fulfillment of that shadow feast, so all nations should be thankful for the celebration of that feast.

We, the saints, will have our glorified bodies, the humans we rule and reign over will still be capable of rebellion in the millennium, so to them the mandatory feature is necessary. Many will rebel at the end of the millennium when the devil is released for a short time...

The point is that the feast still continue... it is not evil now that it is prophetically fulfilled... it is not trusted as our salvation, but Jesus Who fulfilled the type and shadow that it was, is seen as the fulfillment of that shadow, and we will rejoice every year as we thank God for Jesus having come and 'tabernacled' with us to become our Savior.

Do not let anyone disvalue the infallibilty of the Word of God. It means what it says, it was authored by the Holy Spirit. The prophecy of Zechariah is to be trusted and known to be true. By the end of the tribulation, there will be less than one fourth of the number of people left alive in this world as there are when the tribulation begins... to come and build a tent like home for the feast of tabernacles will be very easy... they won't need a hotel room... as population increases throughout the millennium, God will make a way for it, I trust Him to do it... LOL

 

[Frogster]

The only feast I observe is a feast on the word of GOD.

Now there ya go, how true.

 

[Frogster]

In Zechariah 14, several times it tells us 'all nations' i.e. all peoples. They come to worship the Lord at the feast of the tabernacles... This is an eternal worship at the 'feast of the tabernacles' set up by the Lord.

The Jewish people originally thanked God for the deliverance from Egypt then... but now we see the prophetic fulfillment of that shadow feast, so all nations should be thankful for the celebration of that feast.

We, the saints, will have our glorified bodies, the humans we rule and reign over will still be capable of rebellion in the millennium, so to them the mandatory feature is necessary. Many will rebel at the end of the millennium when the devil is released for a short time...

The point is that the feast still continue... it is not evil now that it is prophetically fulfilled... it is not trusted as our salvation, but Jesus Who fulfilled the type and shadow that it was, is seen as the fulfillment of that shadow, and we will rejoice every year as we thank God for Jesus having come and 'tabernacled' with us to become our Savior.

Do not let anyone disvalue the infallibilty of the Word of God. It means what it says, it was authored by the Holy Spirit. The prophecy of Zechariah is to be trusted and known to be true. By the end of the tribulation, there will be less than one fourth of the number of people left alive in this world as there are when the tribulation begins... to come and build a tent like home for the feast of tabernacles will be very easy... they won't need a hotel room... as population increases throughout the millennium, God will make a way for it, I trust Him to do it... LOL

red avove, it is not the word, it is the interp and teaching that is at issue, and ones end days view.

Why would subjugation start, that which Paul fought off?

Again, Hebrews is against all of this stuff, it is old cov..

If they thought it was around the corner, as they did, that was their reality, why fight it off, the readers could just say...


"Oh heck, it's all about to come back soon, why fight it off?"


And you never covered the issue that paul feared the spiritual dynamic, the bondage of it all, that is beyond just the legalities.

he did not want feasts for the church.

 

[rick357]

red avove, it is not the word, it is the interp and teaching that is at issue, and ones end days view.

Why would subjugation start, that which Paul fought off?

Again, Hebrews is against all of this stuff, it is old cov..

If they thought it was around the corner, as they did, that was their reality, why fight it off, the readers could just say...

"Oh heck, it's all about to come back soon, why fight it off?"

And you never covered the issue that paul feared the spiritual dynamic, the bondage of it all, that is beyond just the legalities.

Frog you do realize you are teaching Marconianism right...which the church only decades removed from Pauls earthly ministry declared a heratic and his teachings as doctrin of demons....yet you hold to those teachings even if required to twist what is plainly written
That Paul kept judaism...drew his teachings from the law and prophets....considered himself a Pharisee even after he was converted...and kept feast days....though yes he taught it was not required.

 

[ARBITER01]

Frog you do realize you are teaching Marconianism right...which the church only decades removed from Pauls earthly ministry declared a heratic and his teachings as doctrin of demons....yet you hold to those teachings even if required to twist what is plainly written
That Paul kept judaism...drew his teachings from the law and prophets....considered himself a Pharisee even after he was converted...and kept feast days....though yes he taught it was not required.

That would be incorrect my friend, here's why,..

1Co 9:19 For though I was free from all men, I brought myself under bondage to all, that I might gain the more.

1Co 9:20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, not being myself under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1Co 9:21 to them that are without law, as without law, not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law.

1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak: I am become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.

1Co 9:23 And I do all things for the gospel's sake, that I may be a joint partaker thereof.

He was not a part of Judaism anymore after his conversion, yet he still tried his hardest to win those under the law to the good news of Jesus.

 

[murjahel]

ONE SERIOUS ERROR OF REVERSE GALATIANISM,
ONE SERIOUS ERROR OF GALATIANISM...
THEY ARE BOTH GRAVELY ERRANT.


One of the serious errors of reverse Galatianism is that they see Paul’s stern words against the Jewish converts to Christianity, that wanted to make the traditions and practices of the law, the feasts and the sacrifices, to be mandatory upon all Christians. They were not only not mandatory, they were fulfilled in Jesus, and only ‘shadows’ of the new covenant. Yet, when reverse galatianists viewed the words of Paul, they believed that the shadows were evil, not the interpretation of them. So, reverse galatianists began to condemn anyone who celebrated Passover, or who had a child circumcised, even if those persons knew and believed in Jesus as the fulfilment of the law, not putting the law as mandatory for salvation.

The error of the reverse galationists starts with the overlooking of the fact that the shadows did not become extinct with the coming of our Savior. God had long before been angry, and rejected the law keeping, the feast observing, and the worship even of the ones who did not comprehend the meaning of the ‘shadows’.

Long before Jesus came in the incarnation, long before the new covenant began, God said:

Isaiah 1:14-20 (KJV)
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto Me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

God had seen the sins of those coming to worship, to celebrate feasts, to keep the tenets of the law. Their hearts were sinful, their worship insincere, their understanding of God’s purposes of the law, the sacrifices, the feast celebrations was contaminated.

Paul found that some had gone back to feast celebrations, and said it was not sinful to observe Sabbath day worship, or the eating or not eating of certain meats, or the keeping of one feast day or another, but that one should be fully persuaded. What Paul, following God’s direction, pointed out was that the law, and its keeping, did not save anyone, was not mandatory, for they were but ‘shadows’ of what Jesus came and fulfilled.


God had already rejected their feast celebrations, their worship, etc, long before Paul.

God wanted reality of worship, of righteousness, of faith in Him as Redeemer, even in the Old Testament.

To Amos, the father of Isaiah, we see a similar from God:
Amos 5:21-24 (KJV)
21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

God wants mankind to understand His plan of grace and mercy. God does not now, nor did He then, accept the idea that keeping laws, celebrating certain feasts, singing certain words, etc. will ever redeem a soul, or earn for anyone salvation. God rejected it then, and rejects it now. Paul spoke to the same kind of sins in Galatians, as Isaiah and Amos spoke. It is not keeping the law that is evil, it is not singing worshipful songs that is evil. It is the doing it with the idea that those things earned salvation.

Jude preached against that idea, and mentions the keeping of the feasts by some who were ‘plucked up by the roots’, not saved, but thinking their ‘feasts’ were earning them salvation.

Jude 1:12 (KJV)
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Errant belief in the ‘shadows’, that were not really the substance of what the shadow prophesied to be near, makes the worship or trust of such ‘shadow’ wrong. It pollutes the shadow.

Malachi 1:6-7
"You priests despise My name, offering polluted bread. YET YE SAY, Wherein have we polluted Thee?"

The worship of the people, in that time in the Old Testament, had become polluted. They offered worthless offerings. Their actions revealed their lack of love and respect for God. This is a common problem in the last days. Reverse galationists pounce on the common sin in our time too, but then go far to far in making it sound like God’s ‘shadow’ teachings themselves are evil, whereas it is only the ones who say that those shadows are the salvation earning process, instead of seeing the fulfillment of the shadow teaching, i.e. Jesus, as the only means of salvation.

We are to seek the Lord, and can look and observe the shadow teachings, but never trust them to be our salvation. Jesus is our salvation.

Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

God asserted that the people had dishonored Him often in the Old Testament, and the Galatians to whom Paul wrote, were being tempted to again dishonor God by putting the ‘shadows’ to be mandatory for salvation.

God is disturbed in these last days by the insincere worship of many. Their worship is dead, meaningless, and has form -but no power. They treat the worship services as optional. They take communion as though it were only a midday snack. They treat times of intercession as though they were unimportant. They offer to God their extra time, if any. They will do the Lord's work if it does not interfere with their other plans. They think then that the keeping of a feast day, or the wearing of a cross necklace will atone for their sins.

In the last days, we have even a better covenant. We have the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord. Many today treat the new covenant as badly as the people in Ezra's day treated their covenant. They observed the ‘shadows’ that were meant to teach them, not save them. Some today do return to that same kind of error. Yet, reverse galatianists will condemn even those who observe the beautiful teachings of the ‘shadows’ of the former covenant.

Being out of relationship with the Lord means that all our relationships will suffer. Christians belong to the family of God. We all have a heavenly Father. Paul spoke to the Galatians as Christians, of which some had begun to trust ‘law’ keeping as salvation. He called those things ‘shadows’, and condemned the idea that they saved anyone. It is our heavenly Father that we please when we see Jesus as our Savior, and the law and feasts as beautiful shadows of Him and His work for us.

When reverse galatianists condemn those who in grace see the beauty of the pictures and shadows of the Old Testament, they do a disservice to the faith. We must condemn as Paul, the trusting of ‘shadows’ for salvation, but also condemn, the reverse galatianists who make all who choose to observe a feast day, or sing a worship song. Simply observing ‘shadows’ does not make one sinful, as long as we see the fulfilment of the shadows as being Jesus, our only Savior.

Galatianists who say one has to keep those ‘shadow’ teachings to be saved are errant also. We have both extremes. From both sides we can find unlove, selfishness, mistrust, lies, anger, hatred, spite, spiritual abuse, spiritual stonings, and "coat holders" for the stoners.

The Lord denounces both of these types of activities. He announces that He will not be bribed by their offerings and by their feast celebrations to forget and accept them despite their horrible relationships..

Some want each age to have its own separate rules of morality. God does not change.

Psalms 66:18
"If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me."

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that true worship was not in the externals, not in the group with which one fellowshipped, - but it was to be done "in spirit and in truth."

John 4:24
"God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Jeremiah reminded some that obedience, not sacrifices were necessary.

Jeremiah 7:22-23
"For I spake not unto your Fathers nor commanded... concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices; but this thing I commanded them... Hearken unto My voice, and I will be your God..."

Sacrifices, feasts, law keeping were never intended to be an end in themselves.
Isaiah 1:11, 17-18
"What unto me is the multitude of your sacrifices? ...cease to do evil, learn to do well..."

Hosea 6:6
"I desire goodness, and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

The true temple is in us, it is not the building in which we worship.
Acts 17:24
"...dwelleth not in temples made with hands..."
Colossians 1:27
"...Christ in you, the hope of glory..."
Luke 17:21
"...the kingdom of God is within you..."
I Corinthians 3:16-17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God... the temple of God is holy, and such are ye..."

The ‘shadows’ of feasts and of sacrifices were only pictorial examples of what is to be happening within us, letting the true worship be having Jesus inside of each of us. We are not to seek righteousness by occasionally observing a shadow feast, or offering a shadow sacrifice... We are to be the TEMPLE. Therefore we can never leave such a temple. So we must always be holy... seven days a week, 24 hours a day... Our bodies are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. What manner of person ought we to be, if God is constantly dwelling within us... the temple of the Almighty God!

note the red... just wanted to clarify, lest I be incorrectly accused of teaching this wrong...

 

[murjahel]

THE FEASTS WILL STILL BE CELEBRATED IN THE MILLENNIAL, AND NEW EARTH AGES

When the "feasts" were instituted, they were "His feasts." God instituted and commanded them in the Old Testament. Yet, even before the new covenant, wherein they are being fulfilled prophetically, they became "a feast of the Jews" (John 5:1). They had become hollow and meaningless ritual. The misuse, misunderstanding, the doing them without sincerity, had made God turn from accepting them as worship and teaching.

Isaiah 1:11-15
"...YOUR APPOINTED FEASTS, MY SOUL HATETH..."


People had lost the complete meaning and teaching of the feasts. The feasts had become corrupted. The people had become corrupted.

However, in the last days we receive a fresh revelation of prophetic truth. It is that fulfillment of prophetic truth that we will find in the study of the feasts.


God allowed a number of the "feast" days to be possibilities for certain future events. They not only celebrated some event of history, they prophetically spoke of a coming event of the new covenant time.

Some have chosen the first of Tishri as being likely for the rapture, and some have chosen the fifteenth of Nisan. Still others will choose the day of Pentecost (the sixth of Sivan) to be the most likely. There are points of argument for each date. God has made the "feasts" to be possibilities. We can study and determine which is the most likely, but our best guess may be incorrect. Still, the study of these feasts, and the "guesstimations" are intriguing.

Isaiah 42:9
"BEHOLD THE FORMER THINGS HAVE COME TO PASS, NEW THINGS I DECLARE UNTO YOU, BEFORE THEY SPRING FORTH, I TELL YOU OF THEM."

The Jewish nation went year to year to celebrate some of these feasts. These celebrated different epochs in their history.

1. The feast of the Passover, commemorated their departure from Egypt. Prophetically, it pictured the coming of Jesus as the Lamb to be offered for release from our captivity in sins.

2. The feast of Pentecost was in commemoration of the giving of the law upon Mount Sinai. It spoke prophetically of the giving of the Holy Spirit in the new grace covenant.

3. The feast of tabernacles was in commemoration of their wandering forty years in the wilderness. It spoke prophetically to the Lord’s coming to abide with us in this wilderness world.

This last feast, the feast of tabernacles, according to Zechariah, will be celebrated for all ages to come, and the others will still speak prophetically to us.

Zechariah 14:16-19 (KJV)
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This feast of tabernacles will, in the millennium and on the new earth, be celebrated by not just the Jewish people, but by all nations. It originally only had significance to the Jewish people, but its fulfillment in Jesus’ coming to this earth, is something even we Gentiles we always want to celebrate.

The other two great yearly feasts, Passover and Pentecost, are not specified, here by Zechariah, but I will want to celebrate Jesus’ death and resurrection, pictured and shadowed by the Passover, and celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit, on Pentecost. The shadows have been fulfilled, and celebration of them will be natural.

The feasts were ‘seed’ revelations, now blooming as trees in the garden of prophecy. We will celebrate them.... All of them... Not for the same reasons as many thought, not corrupting them as many did, but in sincerity and in truth, we will continue to celebrate them for eternity.

Keeping the law, in the O.T. often had to be commanded... now in the new covenant, we do not kill, steal, etc... because our natures are changed... We now have love for God and love for our neighbor... Our love for God will have us celebrate Jesus' nativity, and His tabernacling with us, we will lovingly celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit to Comfort us... It is not keeping the law that saves us, it is Jesus... and once saved, we will always want to celebrate what the Trinity has done for us.

 

[rick357]

That would be incorrect my friend, here's why,..

He was not a part of Judaism anymore after his conversion, yet he still tried his hardest to win those under the law to the good news of Jesus.

Followers of the way were a part of judaism untill after the Pauls death though as Paul fought for the gentiles had no requirment to become proselytes.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Followers of the way were a part of judaism untill after the Pauls death though as Paul fought for the gentiles had no requirment to become proselytes.

What?

 

[rick357]

What?

Is this not obvious by the fact that all the apostles kept temple worship in Jerusalem....do you think the jews would have allowed this if they considered them not jews...
Do you think Paul was lying when he claimed innocence against the charges brought against him of teaching that people should abandon Moses.

 

[rick357]

Is this not obvious by the fact that all the apostles kept temple worship in Jerusalem....do you think the jews would have allowed this if they considered them not jews...
Do you think Paul was lying when he claimed innocence against the charges brought against him of teaching that people should abandon Moses.

Judaism taught that a prophet/priest/king was coming as their messiah...Paul taught Jesus was he....the Jews did not nor did Paul consider this a departure.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Judaism taught that a prophet/priest/king was coming as their messiah...Paul taught Jesus was he....the Jews did not nor did Paul consider this a departure.

Your making our case. Judaism taught that Jesus was not the messiah, so they are still waiting and keeping their laws and feasts.

We as Christians recognize Jesus as the One and Only Son of God. Jesus in fact fulfilled the law. That is the gospel, the good news. We celebrate the Son of God dying for our sins.

Why the obsession with teaching against the NT. Your points make no sense, it's obvious that the Messianic Jews are seeking to lure Christians back to the OT laws, feasts and away from the One, True Son of God.

Paul didn't consider it a departure because they never believed in Jesus Christ in the first place.

Frog has refutted each point you have tried to make. This is a dead horse.

 

[rick357]

Your making our case. Judaism taught that Jesus was not the messiah, so they are still waiting and keeping their laws and feasts.

We as Christians recognize Jesus as the One and Only Son of God. Jesus in fact fulfilled the law. That is the gospel, the good news. We celebrate the Son of God dying for our sins.

Why the obsession with teaching against the NT. Your points make no sense, it's obvious that the Messianic Jews are seeking to lure Christians back to the OT laws, feasts and away from the One, True Son of God.

Paul didn't consider it a departure because they never believed in Jesus Christ in the first place.

Frog has refutted each point you and your puppets have tried to make. Now back where you came from.

Frog has refused to deal with one simple question four times because it makes his point moot....also he has used verses to support his point while changing wording or ignoring the wordinh altogether....further I am not saying on should attempt to keep law by their own power but have said that is imposible....the ministration of law has changed as Paul taught.
It is christ in us that that has righteousness it does not have its source with us.....if christ lives in you and through you does he break his own word....I am not jewish so I am not "messianic" though I am a disciple of the Jews messiah....
Further some Jews rejected christ but not all or we would not have this conversation....the writing of his law on your heart and mind is a promise to the Jews....and God does not lie...we have been included but we have not replaced Israel....
Christians so called have murdered a great number of people does that represent your faith in Christ....I dont believe it does.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Frog has refused to deal with one simple question four times because it makes his point moot....also he has used verses to support his point while changing wording or ignoring the wordinh altogether....further I am not saying on should attempt to keep law by their own power but have said that is imposible....the ministration of law has changed as Paul taught.
It is christ in us that that has righteousness it does not have its source with us.....if christ lives in you and through you does he break his own word....I am not jewish so I am not "messianic" though I am a disciple of the Jews messiah....
Further some Jews rejected christ but not all or we would not have this conversation....the writing of his law on your heart and mind is a promise to the Jews....and God does not lie...we have been included but we have not replaced Israel....
Christians so called have murdered a great number of people does that represent your faith in Christ....I dont believe it does.

The topic is OT Feasts. When people have kept to the topic, I believe that questions have been answered. This thread has taken off into all kinds of other directions, however the topic has been addressed from a Christian standpoint and we are to live the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

This congregation is Christian.

 

[rick357]

The topic is OT Feasts. When people have kept to the topic, I believe that questions have been answered. This thread has taken off into all kinds of other directions, however the topic has been addressed from a Christian standpoint and we are to live the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

This congregation is Christian.

So am I...and you disagreeing with what I say will not change that....and I disagree with your evaluation...is that allowed.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So am I...and you disagreeing with what I say will not change that....and I disagree with your evaluation...is that allowed.

You have no icons that have any indication that you would belong here in this congregation.

 

[rick357]

You have no icons that have any indication that you would belong here in this congregation.

*[[1Co 1:12-13]] RNKJV* Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Kepha; and I of the Messiah.
Is the Messiah divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I do not wish to be associated with any type of division... must I have an icon to comment here

 

[murjahel]

*[[1Co 1:12-13]] RNKJV* Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Kepha; and I of the Messiah.
Is the Messiah divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I do not wish to be associated with any type of division... must I have an icon to comment here

No, you need no icon... or crucifix cross, and do not need to make the sign of the cross... in fact, perhaps any who want to question that need a badge... LOL

I like your posts... don't get chased off...

 

[rick357]

No, you need no icon... or crucifix cross, and do not need to make the sign of the cross... in fact, perhaps any who want to question that need a badge... LOL

I like your posts... don't get chased off...

Ty I dont want to break any laws of this forum.......?!!