Why Evolution is True (2)

[createdtoworship]

a Christian would not have done those things. (if as an atheist you don't listen to the Bible, why are you on a Christian forum?- just sayin)


anyway,
Pastor Jon Courson of Applegate Christian Fellowship regarding apostacy of those who were once Christian:

"I believe Hebrews 6 is not about an unbeliever who was never really saved. Nor is it presenting a hypothetical situation. I believe it speaks of those who leave the simplicity of Jesus Christ. So when a person says, "Oh, Jon, I went back into the party scene for three years," or, "back into that religious trip and depended upon my own efforts and my own goodness," on the basis of this passage, I have to say to him, "It's impossible to renew your salvation"

but in case you don't believe that apostacy is a real threat amongst Christianity Here you go: Christians are not those mentioned below:


“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”
Romans 2:13

“Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
Romans 3:31

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth it not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. “
1 John 2:3-5

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:19

“If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.”-1 John 2:29

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect1 -Matthew 5:48

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” -1 John 2:6-7

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 … whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. -1 John 3:7-10

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise , as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward , not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. “-2 Peter 3:9

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

“For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings swelling, tumults: And lest when I come again, my God will humble me among you and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.”
2 Corinthians 12:20-21

“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24

“Be not deceived[; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in his matter.”
2 Corinthians 7:8-11

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath givene assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:30-32

“...the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, and that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in time. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient to unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. “
Acts 26:16-20

“Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.“ -Acts 5:31

“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry gradyll, it still does not fly.

That is still incredibly weak.

And why do you think that a atheist would not understand the Bible? Did you know on average that atheists understand religion better than the average Christian?

 

[dad]

But being Christian (unless you are one of the few denominations that believes good works are necessary)

Good works do not get us saved. Once we are saved, we ought to have some sort of work, one would hope, and I daresay, expect.

is about faith alone, and no other action.

Salvation is by faith. Being a Christian is about more than that, otherwise why not just die and go right to heaven??

By your beliefs, as long as Hitler believed in god, it didn't matter what he did, he would have gotten into heaven.

I agree. He could have gotten saved on his last days, The thing is, that Hitler's Germany did not live according to Scripture. If a leader blathers some glib semi profession of supposed belief in a god, that doesn't mean a lot.

Don't you see why many people have a moral problem with some of the general Christian teachings?

Because they don't know what they actually are.

Most denominations basically preach that you could murder every child on the planet and still get into heaven if you were a believer,

I doubt there are many that teach one could do all that after being saved.

because that is all god cares about. And you could dedicate your life to helping others and still go to hell if you aren't a believer,

Correct, works cannot save us. Only accepting the free gift of Jesus can.

because belief is all god cares about. In Christianity, that is.

Well, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. He cared enough to give us that word, so we can have faith..more and more as time goes on.

I suspect that God cares about a lot more than we know about.

 

[dad]

a Christian would not have done those things....

And if some believer did do some of those things, at least they would feel bad about it. God is working on us from the inside. An unsaved person, not a child of God, would feel more like a pig in with other pigs and mud doing those things. A believer might get in the mud ane even be with pigs, but they would still be a sheep, not a pig! (that I heard from a radio preacher, I think it was Magee)

 

[dad]

And why do you think that a atheist would not understand the Bible?

Because God says so. Why would you have thought they could?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because God says so. Why would you have thought they could?

No, he says no such thing.

Try again.

 

[dad]

No, he says no such thing.

Try again.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

[Mainframes]

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Doesn't say anything about atheists, just the wicked and the wise.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Thanks for admitting that I was right. That was a person that said that and wrote it for a book in your Bible. That is not God who said that.

And did you see the end of your verse? It pointedly excluded you.

 

[paul becke]

Here, in post #43, is bornagain77's compelling conspectus of leading scientists' repudiations of Darwinism as being without empirical foundation and absurd in terms of logical possibility, even given 'deep time':

Mark, This is What all the Fuss is About | Uncommon Descent

His #32 is a mine of fascinating information about the wonder of the most primitive and minuscule cells.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here, in post #43, is bornagain77's compelling conspectus of leading scientists' repudiations of Darwinism as being without empirical foundation and absurd in terms of logical possibility, even given 'deep time':

Mark, This is What all the Fuss is About | Uncommon Descent

Sorry, I saw the name Behe and started to laugh uncontrollably. Now I may not be able to show how Behe is wrong this time but you should know that he has a terrible track record when it comes to "irreducible complexity". He has made that claim for the blood clotting cascade, the rotator flagellum of bacteria and perhaps for other biological functions that were unexplained at the time that he claimed they were irreducible complex. His method was to find some discovery that was at the cutting edge of biological research and claim it was irreducibly complex. That is a foolish tactic. Problems at the cutting edge of science have a tendency to be solved.

So what is Mikey's claim this time?

ETA: Oh noSE!. I saw the site, the link opens up to the middle. It is from another creationist site that has lost all credibility in the past. Why am I not amazed?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

isn't it considered trolling, when someone does not address what's posted and posts more links without addressing what is posted? Hitler was a darwinist, not a Christian.

Hitler was a Christian, not a Darwinist. A Christian in terms of what he claimed to be, not a Christian in terms of his wonderful relationship with God.

Thirdly I showed ample evidence for Hitlers association with darwinism:
"The greatest authority of all the advocates of war is Darwin. Since the theory of evolution has been promulgated, they can cover their natural barbarism with the name of Darwin and proclaim the sanguinary instincts of their inmost hearts as the last word of science."—*Max Nordau, "The Philosophy and Morals of War," in North American Review 169 (1889), p. 794.

This is ridiculous. You quote 1889 stuff as evidence for what Hitler stood for? Don't you know when Hitler did his thing?

During World War I, German intellectuals believed natural selection was irresistibly all-powerful (Allmacht), a law of nature impelling them to bloody struggle for domination. Their political and military textbooks promoted Darwin’s theories as the ‘scientific’ basis of a quest for world conquest, with the full backing of German scientists and professors of biology."—*R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 59.

This is ridiculous. You quote WW1 stuff as evidence for Hitler's ideas? Don't you know what war Hitler was in?

"[The position in Germany was that] Man must ‘conform’ to nature’s processes, no matter how ruthless. The ‘fittest’ must never stand in the way of the law of evolutionary progress. In its extreme form, that social view was used in Nazi Germany to justify sterilization and mass murder of the ‘unfit,’ ‘incompetent,’ ‘inferior races.’ "—*R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 412.

This is ridiculous. The fittest must never stand in the way of evolution? This is Darwin's idea? Hah!

I fear your understanding is somewhat . . . .lacking here.

 

[Dizredux]

Hitler was a Christian, not a Darwinist. A Christian in terms of what he claimed to be, not a Christian in terms of his wonderful relationship with God.




This is ridiculous. You quote 1889 stuff as evidence for what Hitler stood for? Don't you know when Hitler did his thing?



This is ridiculous. You quote WW1 stuff as evidence for Hitler's ideas? Don't you know what war Hitler was in?




This is ridiculous. The fittest must never stand in the way of evolution? This is Darwin's idea? Hah!

I fear your understanding is somewhat . . . .lacking here.

If Grady really wants to understand, he would look at Nazi ideas stemming from animal breeding and the works of Martin Luther on Jews. Substitute pure breed for pure race and see what you get.

Plus read some of Luther's ideas on how to handle the Jews....Wow, toxic!

Dizredux

Dizredux

 

[Ellwood3]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Why Evolution is True"

Right. Evolution is a truth.

And that means God is even more interesting than many imagine.


A piece of The Star of Bethlehem program.

Because God exists, the world is much more interesting than most scientists imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2iDkgJ-RTM

 

[paul becke]

Sorry, I saw the name Behe and started to laugh uncontrollably. Now I may not be able to show how Behe is wrong this time

Oh. What a pity.

but you should know that he has a terrible track record when it comes to "irreducible complexity".

Says who?

He has made that claim for the blood clotting cascade, the rotator flagellum of bacteria and perhaps for other biological functions that were unexplained at the time that he claimed they were irreducible complex. His method was to find some discovery that was at the cutting edge of biological research and claim it was irreducibly complex. That is a foolish tactic. Problems at the cutting edge of science have a tendency to be solved.

So what is Mikey's claim this time?

ETA: Oh noSE!. I saw the site, the link opens up to the middle. It is from another creationist site that has lost all credibility in the past. Why am I not amazed?

Because you're not too swift?

'That is a foolish tactic. Problems at the cutting edge of science have a tendency to be solved.'

Ha! Ha! What a give-away! The atheists' fabled 'promissory note'. 'One day, my son', with expansive sweep of the arm, 'this whole universe will be like an open book to us. We'll understand it from beginning to end.' In your dreams, buddy. Your post is one long scoff, yet with nothing to explain your mirth. FAIL! In spades.

Why, you'd still be operating under the 18th century, Newtonian, mechanistic paradigm, if it were not for ID/deist and theist thinkers, and for that very simple reason you have just admitted. You don't believe in mysteries.

If Planck, Bohr, Einstein, Heisenberg, Godel et al had not believed in the existence of mysteries way beyond man's powers to comprehend, there'd be no quantum physics, upon which 70% of manufacturing industry relies. There'd be even fewer reasonably intelligent atheists scientists with a job to go to. Your hapless crew would have, almost certainly had, 'downed tools', at the first sight of a paradox!

How do you explain non-locality - photons arriving from outside space-time, who knows whence (except the religious believers). Light photons, for that matter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right. Evolution is a truth.

And that means God is even more interesting than many imagine.


A piece of The Star of Bethlehem program.

Because God exists, the world is much more interesting than most scientists imagine.

The Star of Bethlehem Extra - Revealing the Ram - YouTube

There are a couple of severe problems with this video. First no one knows exactly when Jesus died. The year and date of his crucifixion is still debated today. So his claim that a lunar eclipse occurred on that day is not supported.

Second his eclipse is laughably wrong. He shows the Earth and Sun as being roughly the same size. From the Moon the Earth has an apparent diameter roughly four times that of the Sun. That is why with a lunar eclipse the whole Moon goes dark. With a solar eclipse we can trace the Sun's shadow across the Earth and it is not all that large. The shadow can go from zero miles wide in the case of an annular eclipse up to about 100 miles wide on the surface of the Earth. Only a very small portion of the Earth ever goes dark in a total solar eclipse.

At any rate from the Moon the Sun would be totally blotted out. There would be no corona around the Earth except for a very small part of the Sun's light that was bent by the Earth's atmosphere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because you're not too swift?

'That is a foolish tactic. Problems at the cutting edge of science have a tendency to be solved.'

Ha! Ha! What a give-away! The atheists' fabled 'promissory note'. 'One day, my son', with expansive sweep of the arm, 'this whole universe will be like an open book to us. We'll understand it from beginning to end.' In your dreams, buddy. Your post is one long scoff, yet with nothing to explain your mirth. FAIL! In spades.

Wow! Way to miss the point, and you tried to claim that I was not too swift. I asked which claim of irreducible complexity this was because all of the ones that I know of have been debunked. I can even show how he has been debunked in some of his claims. If this is a new one it is only more of the same by Michael. Here is his typical modus operendi: Find a problem that is not yet solved in biology. Declare it to be irreducibly complex. Claim it is evidence of intelligent design. Ignore when science solves this problem and repeat.

Why, you'd still be operating under the 18th century, Newtonian, mechanistic paradigm, if it were not for ID/deist and theist thinkers, and for that very simple reason you have just admitted. You don't believe in mysteries.


If Planck, Bohr, Einstein, Heisenberg, Godel et al had not believed in the existence of mysteries way beyond man's powers to comprehend, there'd be no quantum physics, upon which 70% of manufacturing industry relies. There'd be even fewer reasonably intelligent atheists scientists with a job to go to. Your hapless crew would have, almost certainly had, 'downed tools', at the first sight of a paradox!

Einstein was not a theist. If anything he was an atheist. Now he was not an antitheist, which is what most atheists of his time were. He did not believe in any god or gods. I do not know of the Bohr, Planck or Heisenberg. I have not checked into their theology, but I can guarantee to you that they were not ID followers. In fact ID is a late 20th century invention. ID was shown to be creationism in a cheap suit in the Dover Trial.

How do you explain non-locality - photons arriving from outside space-time, who knows whence (except the religious believers). Light photons, for that matter.

Link please. I am unfamiliar with your claim. Of course you should realize that an unanswered question in science is not evidence for god or gods. It is merely an unanswered question. Let me put it to you this way, if we answered that question would it be evidence against god?

ETA #1. Planck was a deist, but he did not believe in a personal god. In other words he would have laughed at ID.

ETA #2 Heisenberg was a Lutheran that changed his beliefs to accommodate science:

"In the history of science, ever since the famous trial of Galileo, it has repeatedly been claimed that scientific truth cannot be reconciled with the religious interpretation of the world. Although I am now convinced that scientific truth is unassailable in its own field, I have never found it possible to dismiss the content of religious thinking as simply part of an outmoded phase in the consciousness of mankind, a part we shall have to give up from now on. Thus in the course of my life I have repeatedly been compelled to ponder on the relationship of these two regions of thought, for I have never been able to doubt the reality of that to which they point.” (Heisenberg 1974, 213)

ETA #3 Bohr ended his life as an agnostic. And as I already said Einstein would be called an atheist today. He believed in no god. That leaves Godel who went a bit off the deep end at the end of his life.

You did not do to well with your appeal to authority.

 

[dad]

Doesn't say anything about atheists, just the wicked and the wise.

Ps 119:155 -Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

Heb 3:12 -Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


2Th 3:2 - And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.




Mic 5:15 -And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


8 - In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,





Mt 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


1Jo 5:19 -And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.






That is how it is.

 

[dad]

That was a person that said that and wrote it for a book in your Bible. That is not God who said that.

The evidence of ages says otherwise.

Your contempt for His word notwithstanding.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ps 119:155 -Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

Heb 3:12 -Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


2Th 3:2 - And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.




Mic 5:15 -And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


8 - In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,





Mt 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


1Jo 5:19 -And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.






That is how it is.

Still nothing about atheists there dad.

Try again.