Defining God

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There is no such thing as "a quanta" since that is the plural of the word "quantum".

You still have no clue.

And you still strike with malice. But that is the atheist way yes? Or is this your personal delight?

I assume you would level similar venom at theoretical physicist Matt Strassler? 7. Particles Are Quanta | Of Particular Significance

7. Particles Are Quanta:
...
And so we conclude: The particles of nature are quanta of relativistic quantum fields. The massless ones are quanta of waves in fields that satisfy a Class 0 equation. The ones with mass correspond to fields with a Class 1 equation. There are many more details to investigate. But this fact is among the most fundamental properties of our world.

Do These Quanta Really Behave Like Particles?

When we think of particles, we think of specks of dust, or grains of sand. Quanta are not particles in this sense; they are waves that, for a given frequency, have minimum energy and amplitude. But they behave so much like particles that we could be forgiven (well, almost forgiven) for using the word “particle” in describing them.






There are a great many things I do not know and tomorrow I can learn them, but you will still be an ace. Will you take that with you when you die and look back on opportunities lost?

But if you don't think you are responsible for your life to anyone, then you don't have much reason to seek uprightness within yourself or equanimity with you fellow man....do you? No consequences for atheists right?

Surely it is better to operate as if you are responsible for your life after it is done? The worst that could happen is you will become a better person, enriching the lives of others for having past through the world.
 
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I can define what the word god means objectively just fine, but if you ask how I would define what a deity is like that is inevitably going to be subjective.

I'm not getting what you mean by objective definition here. Definitions are inherently subjective; they're attempts of using language, which is entirely subjective all the way through, to represent concepts or experiences. These concepts can be real or unreal.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'm not getting what you mean by objective definition here. Definitions are inherently subjective; they're attempts of using language, which is entirely subjective all the way through, to represent concepts or experiences. These concepts can be real or unreal.

Again, show me how defining the word "the" can be subjective
 
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Again, show me how defining the word "the" can be subjective

"The" is a determiner, a part of grammar, or the stuff needed to make sense of attempted communication. It's subjective because it's used by us in a way of making this attempt at communication, rather than something that exists in the universe. If subjective means, loosely, what's in our heads, and objective means what's beyond our heads and really there, how on earth is a "the" determiner out there in the universe? Where is it?
 
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Does quantum mechanics enable you to live a fulfilling life?

It certainly lends credit to Jesus's statements that your thoughts affect reality and we are all quantum entangled. "What you do unto the lest of these, you do unto me." Thoughts of lust, murder etc is a sin just as the actions are.

That's what I come away with.
 
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PsychoSarah

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It certainly lends credit to Jesus's statements that your thoughts affect reality and we are all quantum entangled. "What you do unto the lest of these, you do unto me." Thoughts of lust, murder etc is a sin just as the actions are.

That's what I come away with.

Which is again how he bible states it is impossible to live without sin for any regular person (pretty much anyone besides Jesus). For context, Jeremy has this idea in his head that the bible doesn't say that, and that technically a person could live without sin somehow.
 
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Which is again how he bible states it is impossible to live without sin for any regular person (pretty much anyone besides Jesus). For context, Jeremy has this idea in his head that the bible doesn't say that, and that technically a person could live without sin somehow.

We all get wet, I suppose the goal is to keep from drowning and practice practice practice until we can finally walk on water.
 
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God can't be defined. At most we can be aware of the attributes of the Divine, or understand the way we experience God. But defined? Nope, it's not going to happen.

.

I could define your existence by all your real organs, systems, membrane, strutures, etc and be 100% accurate.

But does that say anything about your struggle, dreams, and triumphs?


I could do the same with God for you.
 
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dlamberth

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I could define your existence by all your real organs, systems, membrane, strutures, etc and be 100% accurate.

But does that say anything about your struggle, dreams, and triumphs?


I could do the same with God for you.
That's what I'm saying. A person can talk about the attributes of God (his organs) but no one can define me any more than they could define God. That's one of the things about the infinite, it's undefinable.


.
 
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That's what I'm saying. A person can talk about the attributes of God (his organs) but no one can define me any more than they could define God. That's one of the things about the infinite, it's undefinable.


.

I am talking about His real physical existence. A theoretical 3d infinite stretches forever in all directions. A real physical infinite also reaches forever in all direction only is it saturated with MATTER. Not this atomic wave form 99.999999% empty space matter, quark matter: An infinitely superconductive Fermi liquid billions of times denser and hotter than what we call "solid". The is no room for any separate thing, no space for form to be distinguished. It is All GOD everywhere forever. The Eternal that has always been.

The Speaking of the Word, vibrated this saturate into void spaces as a wave front. The Infinite Saturate of GOD still exists above and below the growing stack of infinite universes. He is not diminished in the creating of them out of nothing.

He is both Father (patterner) and Mother (holder) of the universe.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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When defining God we don't need to define every aspect of him, just as with anything in the physical universe we only need to define a few aspects to distinguish them from other things. There is always a potentially infinite number of details beyond our grasp with anything we define. We might not even have enough senses to grasp details of things that could be unveiled if, say, you had more color receptors or senses entirely.

We must, must, must define God metaphorically, although some aspects of him might be understood literally, like "creator". Take note, though, that the vast majority of terms in English (and other languages too) are either metaphorical, or as literal terms had metaphorical beginnings. The point: there's nothing inferior at all about defining things metaphorically. With God it's absolutely required to define him metaphorically, given that he's a spiritual dude, and as such can't be seen. So how can be conceive of spirit? Maybe like the third dimension to the second dimension, even though God isn't arguably limited by the third dimension, just as the universe isn't obviously limited by the second.

So what of God and defining him? I contend that he's a creator of the physical universe, and as such transcends the physical universe, and this area of transcendence I call spirit, which I define as "unembodied personal power" (Willard). Because he created the physical universe, he must by definition be beyond time and space, analogous to how numbers are beyond time and space. He is an eternal spiritual being who created the universe, and also arguably upholds all of existence; were it not for God, this universe wouldn't have been created for one, but also could not even exist now after creation if he were to leave town for a vacation.

Please keep in mind that this is an attempt at a definition, and not a philosophical argument for him. That can be made elsewhere. The big question so far is, now that we get that God can be defined as an eternal spiritual creator-sustainer being, how do we get a picture of this in our minds? And the answer: we can't, not literally. So how do we get a picture of him in our minds metaphorically?

And here I think it's not really needed to get a picture of him "as a whole". To define God might mean to grasp a few of his qualities, like eternal creator, or sustainer, or whatever. But I think it's possible to get a picture of him, such as a sphere in relation to a plane (the universe), which captures the idea that he's beyond this universe while still relating to it. Actually, the most useful image I have for him is like some grand infinity that "surrounds" (note the quotes) the universe, which is a bit like an organism that's growing or expanding inside him (the universe as its continues its spatial and physical expansion). Which brings up a cool idea of God as a mother in that he enwombs the universe.

There are other images, of course, but those are my preferred ones. Thoughts?

I'm god.

No really. I am. I possess all the qualities of a god, like having brown hair. Or being in the exact place I am at this moment.
 
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mark kennedy

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When defining God we don't need to define every aspect of him, just as with anything in the physical universe we only need to define a few aspects to distinguish them from other things. There is always a potentially infinite number of details beyond our grasp with anything we define. We might not even have enough senses to grasp details of things that could be unveiled if, say, you had more color receptors or senses entirely.

Please keep in mind that this is an attempt at a definition, and not a philosophical argument for him. That can be made elsewhere. The big question so far is, now that we get that God can be defined as an eternal spiritual creator-sustainer being, how do we get a picture of this in our minds? And the answer: we can't, not literally. So how do we get a picture of him in our minds metaphorically?

And here I think it's not really needed to get a picture of him "as a whole". To define God might mean to grasp a few of his qualities, like eternal creator, or sustainer, or whatever. But I think it's possible to get a picture of him, such as a sphere in relation to a plane (the universe), which captures the idea that he's beyond this universe while still relating to it. Actually, the most useful image I have for him is like some grand infinity that "surrounds" (note the quotes) the universe, which is a bit like an organism that's growing or expanding inside him (the universe as its continues its spatial and physical expansion). Which brings up a cool idea of God as a mother in that he enwombs the universe.

There are other images, of course, but those are my preferred ones. Thoughts?

When defining God it is important to realize that man has a natural revelation of God, God's glory reflected in nature:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)​

In my many debates with atheists I've found it interesting that they very seldom, if ever, ask for a definition of God. You would think with no evidence or the evidence is found to be insubstantial the thought would occur to them that the word for God has an inherent meaning.

Anyway, God is defined from time to time in Christian theology. Usually they will come up with a four part definition as a doctrine (or lesson).

Attributes or Properties of God:


1. Independence or aseity of God. God is separate from his creation, which by the way is the literal meaning of 'holiness', it's the idea of separation. God is altogether other and in no way dependent on any source, in fact, the term source cannot be applied to God. That's where the Aristotelian concept of God being primary source comes from, God is the prime mover, the uncaused cause so to speak.

2. Immutability of God. God is unchanging, true and faithful.

Immutability (ametathetos): Occurs in Hebrews 6:17, 18 of the unchangeableness of the Divine counsel. It is the perfection of Yahweh that He changes not in character, will, purpose, aim (Malachi 3:6; so of Christ, Hebrews 13:8). (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)​

You see something like this in natural science, some laws of nature like gravity are regarded as immutable because the dynamics do not change. On the flip side virtually all natural laws lack immutability because our understanding of them is limited, we can be in error and it seems there are always exceptions.

3. Infinity: God is without beginning or end (Psalm 90:2; 2 Peter 3:8), God transcends time and space, God is neither included in space nor absent from it. (1 Kings 8:27; Acts 17:27)

4. Unity (Simplicity): This doctrine is a little hard to grasp but the idea is that God's essential nature is uniform. This is probably as good a description of the concept your going to get.

The being of God is identical to the "attributes" of God. In other words, such characteristics as omnipresence, goodness, truth, eternity, etc. are identical to God's being, not qualities that make up that being, nor abstract entities inhering in God as in a substance. (Divine Simplicity)​

Biblical definitions are a little harder to nail down then a doctrinal statement about God. The reason is that God is described but not really defined in Scripture because it's always assumed God's 'his eternal power and divine nature' are 'clearly seen'. Arguments for the existence of God can be found nowhere in Scripture for the same reason. In other words God is self existing and self evident, if I define God for you I'm defining something less then God. Theologians sometimes refer to this as natural revelation.

When I think of this subject I remember Socrates refusing to define 'good' in the Republic, he opted instead for a simile which is probably the best part of the dialogue for me. Mind you, Plato isn't talking about an adjective but for him the 'Good' was the highest ideal or form, not something that is good but goodness itself.

A bit on the theological side but definitions for God do exist, it just takes some time to boil them down to a substantive semantic definition that is complete and still comprehensive.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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