Sabbath was made for man

[Gibs]

More often than not these "wackos" I broadly see ARE the ones that pridefully proclaim the REASON they are right IS because they have HIS Spirit (of Truth) testifying to them. The FBI has dealt with a few of the extreme examples of people claiming to be hearing from God (having HIS Spirit of Truth in them). As far as reading and understanding the Bible without error.... NOBODY does that ALL are in error. I tend to see warning signs when someone who is preaching and promoting online uses this reasoning to essentially inversely proclaim those who disagree with them do NOT have his Spirit of Truth in them. If they are indeed hearing in a spiritual sense then that person is essentially CONDEMNING them to listening to a false spirit by proclaiming only they have the Spirit of Truth.

I try to avoid using this "I got God speaking to me" argument to IGNORE the arguments of others here because if I am found to be wrong then essentially I would be guilty on a parallel course of attributing a false spirit unto the Holy Spirit which is heading in the direction of unforgiveable blaphemy by attributing works for the Holy Spirit to demons (false spirits).

The promise is to you too Sophrosyne. It is as valid for me as to you or anyone. The only requirement is one must die of self and invite Him in to be the sole, one and only soul master in our soul temples.

Then and only then does He come in and take up abode in us. We are wholly thine LORD or we will be none of thine.

The wonderful promise from Jesus Himself,

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Wonderful, wonderful promise, He will guide into ALL TRUTH plus shew us things to come, Wow!

 

[Sophrosyne]

The promise is to you too Sophrosyne. It is as valid for me as to you or anyone. The only requirement is one must die of self and invite Him in to be the sole, one and only soul master in our soul temples.

Then and only then does He come in and take up abode in us. We are wholly thine LORD or we will be none of thine.

The wonderful promise from Jesus Himself,

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Wonderful, wonderful promise, He will guide into ALL TRUTH plus shew us things to come, Wow!

I hate to break it to you are ignoring logic and forum rules in that ALL those who post in GT ARE by default Christian which means be default ARE saved and that means logically by the truthful definition of salvation ARE indwelled by the Holy Spirit and thus have the "Spirit of Truth" testifying to them also.
The problem herein is the Holy Spirit doesn't force people who willingly desire to accept lies and false doctrine to ignore them. If you want to accept things that are not true you can the Holy Spirit will just run back into the corner and hide from you until you desire to listen to him instead of someone else who you agree with.
Essentially this lame argument you are trying to use is cancelled out by both sides having equal access to the Holy Spirit. The only way it can be used is to ACCUSE someone of being unsaved OR making the false claim that the Holy Spirit makes people perfect (always in truth). The simple fact that we have Christians who did indeed accept Jesus later in life be tempted and sin even to the point of murder doesn't proclaim that they were never saved but rather that they chose to IGNORE the Holy Spirit in them so much that he because no longer a source of truth to them.

In other words while you claim to have the spirit of truth equating we are listening to a lying spirit the SAME argument can be said about YOU.
It is still up to you to PROVE that we do NOT have the Spirit of Truth in us instead of using snarky methods to essentially indirectly posit an ad hominem arguement..... or even flaming other believers by insinuating they aren't saved. In other words you better start debating with solid arguments instead of posturing and trying to equate yourself as "better" than us to make it so people think you must be right because you are a superior Christian......... poppycock I say.

 

[Gibs]

I hate to break it to you are ignoring logic and forum rules in that ALL those who post in GT ARE by default Christian which means be default ARE saved and that means logically by the truthful definition of salvation ARE indwelled by the Holy Spirit and thus have the "Spirit of Truth" testifying to them also.
The problem herein is the Holy Spirit doesn't force people who willingly desire to accept lies and false doctrine to ignore them. If you want to accept things that are not true you can the Holy Spirit will just run back into the corner and hide from you until you desire to listen to him instead of someone else who you agree with.
Essentially this lame argument you are trying to use is cancelled out by both sides having equal access to the Holy Spirit. The only way it can be used is to ACCUSE someone of being unsaved OR making the false claim that the Holy Spirit makes people perfect (always in truth). The simple fact that we have Christians who did indeed accept Jesus later in life be tempted and sin even to the point of murder doesn't proclaim that they were never saved but rather that they chose to IGNORE the Holy Spirit in them so much that he because no longer a source of truth to them.

In other words while you claim to have the spirit of truth equating we are listening to a lying spirit the SAME argument can be said about YOU.
It is still up to you to PROVE that we do NOT have the Spirit of Truth in us instead of using snarky methods to essentially indirectly posit an ad hominem arguement..... or even flaming other believers by insinuating they aren't saved. In other words you better start debating with solid arguments instead of posturing and trying to equate yourself as "better" than us to make it so people think you must be right because you are a superior Christian......... poppycock I say.

Sophrosyne, you are not my judge or I am not yours. I posted scripture for you and others viewing this thread and they are valid and that is where I leave it, at your doorstep, regard or disregard, you are free and I would have it no other way.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Sophrosyne, you are not my judge or I am not yours. I posted scripture for you and others viewing this thread and they are valid and that is where I leave it, at your doorstep, regard or disregard, you are free and I would have it no other way.

If you had posted it without quoting my post I wouldn't have had an issue however you REPLIED to my post USING my name in it which IMPLIES you ARE indeed judging ME personally.

 

[Gibs]

If you had posted it without quoting my post I wouldn't have had an issue however you REPLIED to my post USING my name in it which IMPLIES you ARE indeed judging ME personally.

My first sentence to you was, "Sophrosyne, you are not my judge or I am not yours."

For sure I don't agree with you but I am not your judge. I do have to judge for myself of what you advocate is truth.

 

[Sophrosyne]

My first sentence to you was, "Sophrosyne, you are not my judge or I am not yours."

For sure I don't agree with you but I am not your judge. I do have to judge for myself of what you advocate is truth.

I'm sorry but I cannot take that statement seriously because you are demanding others here (including me) keep the Sabbath plus you are equating you have the Spirit of Truth behind what you say when telling others what they say is wrong (judging). One cannot equate truth in opposition of what others say and say they are wrong without being their judge especially when they do not take a position that what others say and believe can be equally right and that the Sabbath is a voluntary thing.

In other words you are speaking one thing and your actions seemingly betray your own words.
It is almost impossible to properly debate without judging what others say and when others say what they believe in effect in judging their beliefs you are judging them because their beliefs are an integral part of them otherwise one would have to summarily conclude the seriousness of their beliefs would have to be trivial.
I don't see people here in opposition of the promotion of your beliefs being trivial about their stances. Their stances ARE part of who they are and you cannot oppose them and call their beliefs untruthful without judging them in the idea you are judging a part of them to begin with.

 

[Gibs]

I'm sorry but I cannot take that statement seriously because you are demanding others here (including me) keep the Sabbath plus you are equating you have the Spirit of Truth behind what you say when telling others what they say is wrong (judging). One cannot equate truth in opposition of what others say and say they are wrong without being their judge especially when they do not take a position that what others say and believe can be equally right and that the Sabbath is a voluntary thing.

In other words you are speaking one thing and your actions seemingly betray your own words.
It is almost impossible to properly debate without judging what others say and when others say what they believe in effect in judging their beliefs you are judging them because their beliefs are an integral part of them otherwise one would have to summarily conclude the seriousness of their beliefs would have to be trivial.
I don't see people here in opposition of the promotion of your beliefs being trivial about their stances. Their stances ARE part of who they are and you cannot oppose them and call their beliefs untruthful without judging them in the idea you are judging a part of them to begin with.

I am not demanding you or anyone keep Sabbath and neither does our God. I am only setting before you and others that the Sabbath should be kept if we are to please God.

To teach is not judging, you teach too don't you? Are not all of us who are Christians to be teachers.

Why is there so much ire against the Sabbath. I do not hold ire of you or any for your Sunday keeping.

 

[from scratch]

The promise is to you too Sophrosyne. It is as valid for me as to you or anyone. The only requirement is one must die of self and invite Him in to be the sole, one and only soul master in our soul temples.

Then and only then does He come in and take up abode in us. We are wholly thine LORD or we will be none of thine.

The wonderful promise from Jesus Himself,

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Wonderful, wonderful promise, He will guide into ALL TRUTH plus shew us things to come, Wow!

Fortunately you're not the Holy Spirit nor the Comforter. And you can quit condemning those who follow the teachings of the New Covenant.

 

[from scratch]

I am not demanding you or anyone keep Sabbath and neither does our God. I am only setting before you and others that the Sabbath should be kept if we are to please God.

To teach is not judging, you teach too don't you? Are not all of us who are Christians to be teachers.

Why is there so much ire against the Sabbath. I do not hold ire of you or any for your Sunday keeping.

Excuse me but don't you believe there are 10 Commandments?

 

[Gibs]

Fortunately you're not the Holy Spirit nor the Comforter. And you can quit condemning those who follow the teachings of the New Covenant.

I for sure was teaching out of the New Testament and this then too is of the new Covenant that I had posted,

I merely had told Sophrosyne that this promise is for us all,

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

That is not condemning anyone but is an uplifting promise if I ever heard and read one, and yes that promise is dear to me and I am sure to you all.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I am not demanding you or anyone keep Sabbath and neither does our God. I am only setting before you and others that the Sabbath should be kept if we are to please God.

Actually you are demanding others keep the Sabbath by arguing for keeping it against those who really don't mind you keeping it at all but do mind you telling others to keep it.

To teach is not judging, you teach too don't you? Are not all of us who are Christians to be teachers.

To teach IS judging because you are exalting yourself AS teacher and demoting others here AS students. Do you honestly think we who have been here for many years are seeing any argument from you that we haven't already seen? We don't need people teaching us to keep the Sabbath here but we do like it when people put the Sabbath in proper place which as AT MOST a voluntary thing for Christians...... NOT anything like mandatory at all. This is why we have tried countless hundreds of times to get people the likes of you to give us a definite YES OR NO that Sabbath keeping IS or IS NOT required for salvation to obtain and/or KEEP it.

Why is there so much ire against the Sabbath. I do not hold ire of you or any for your Sunday keeping.

I hold no ire against the Sabbath, but I do hold ire against exalting and essentially THEFT of a holy day from Israel and the Jewish people to be crammed down the throats of Christians making them feel LESS of a believer in Christ if they don't keep it. Let's face it from what I have seen in these threads at times I wonder if Sabbath Keepers worship a Day more than they do a Savior as they seem to pin their hopes on that Day more than on the Lord of ALL the Days.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Let's face facts here-----
1) If the Sabbath is NOT mandatory for Salvation then why mention it as...
2) Those who promote the Sabbath CLAIM that the Law (10 commandment INCLUDING the Sabbath) is written on the hearts of Christians.
3) If the Sabbath is already incorporated into the spirit of believers then:
4) The believer with a NON mandatory focus about the Sabbath can consult the spirit if he/she needs to keep the Sabbath or not. But the problem is that:
5) Those who proclaim the Law written on heart either have to believe those who refuse to keep the Sabbath are:
6) Not believers at all or that the "Law written upon the heart" thing is a lie from their stance because too few Christians give the Sabbath a parting glance.
7) Basically it comes down to proof that this is all a bunch of poppycock because we have people teaching/preaching/promoting the Sabbath which means either they don't believe we are saved/Christians or believe the Sabbath if not kept CANCELS out the power of the cross ENTIRELY.

 

[Gibs]

Actually you are demanding others keep the Sabbath by arguing for keeping it against those who really don't mind you keeping it at all but do mind you telling others to keep it.
To teach IS judging because you are exalting yourself AS teacher and demoting others here AS students. Do you honestly think we who have been here for many years are seeing any argument from you that we haven't already seen? We don't need people teaching us to keep the Sabbath here but we do like it when people put the Sabbath in proper place which as AT MOST a voluntary thing for Christians...... NOT anything like mandatory at all. This is why we have tried countless hundreds of times to get people the likes of you to give us a definite YES OR NO that Sabbath keeping IS or IS NOT required for salvation to obtain and/or KEEP it.

I hold no ire against the Sabbath, but I do hold ire against exalting and essentially THEFT of a holy day from Israel and the Jewish people to be crammed down the throats of Christians making them feel LESS of a believer in Christ if they don't keep it. Let's face it from what I have seen in these threads at times I wonder if Sabbath Keepers worship a Day more than they do a Savior as they seem to pin their hopes on that Day more than on the Lord of ALL the Days.

Yes you see anyone who is a witness for anything is a teacher and of that I am but I do not exalt myself, but I do exalt His Word and Him.

Are you an exalted teacher? You hit at me hard for my testimony.

One way I exalt my God is by Keeping His Holy day, the only day out of the 7 day week He has labeled My Holy Day.

I don't care to be in this discussion if you are going to get heated about it.

Between us two I just as soon it was dropped.

 

[from scratch]

Actually you are demanding others keep the Sabbath by arguing for keeping it against those who really don't mind you keeping it at all but do mind you telling others to keep it.
To teach IS judging because you are exalting yourself AS teacher and demoting others here AS students. Do you honestly think we who have been here for many years are seeing any argument from you that we haven't already seen? We don't need people teaching us to keep the Sabbath here but we do like it when people put the Sabbath in proper place which as AT MOST a voluntary thing for Christians...... NOT anything like mandatory at all. This is why we have tried countless hundreds of times to get people the likes of you to give us a definite YES OR NO that Sabbath keeping IS or IS NOT required for salvation to obtain and/or KEEP it.

I hold no ire against the Sabbath, but I do hold ire against exalting and essentially THEFT of a holy day from Israel and the Jewish people to be crammed down the throats of Christians making them feel LESS of a believer in Christ if they don't keep it. Let's face it from what I have seen in these threads at times I wonder if Sabbath Keepers worship a Day more than they do a Savior as they seem to pin their hopes on that Day more than on the Lord of ALL the Days.

The hymns in their hymnal verify they in fact do.

 

[from scratch]

Let's face facts here-----
1) If the Sabbath is NOT mandatory for Salvation then why mention it as...
2) Those who promote the Sabbath CLAIM that the Law (10 commandment INCLUDING the Sabbath) is written on the hearts of Christians.
3) If the Sabbath is already incorporated into the spirit of believers then:
4) The believer with a NON mandatory focus about the Sabbath can consult the spirit if he/she needs to keep the Sabbath or not. But the problem is that:
5) Those who proclaim the Law written on heart either have to believe those who refuse to keep the Sabbath are:
6) Not believers at all or that the "Law written upon the heart" thing is a lie from their stance because too few Christians give the Sabbath a parting glance.
7) Basically it comes down to proof that this is all a bunch of poppycock because we have people teaching/preaching/promoting the Sabbath which means either they don't believe we are saved/Christians or believe the Sabbath if not kept CANCELS out the power of the cross ENTIRELY.

and

 

[from scratch]

Yes you see anyone who is a witness for anything is a teacher and of that I am but I do not exalt myself, but I do exalt His Word and Him.

Are you an exalted teacher? You hit at me hard for my testimony.

One way I exalt my God is by Keeping His Holy day, the only day out of the 7 day week He has labeled My Holy Day.

I don't care to be in this discussion if you are going to get heated about it.

Between us two I just as soon it was dropped.

Testimony and what you're doing are 2 very different and unrelated approaches.

 

[from scratch]

I won't use the word "wackos" but dear ones it is the folks who do not have His Spirit of Truth with and in them that read and understand His Word in error.

You know what I agree with you entirely. It just depends on what one's reference to His Spirit and Truth actually is. I think others here read what I'm saying, but I bet it goes right over your head.

 

[from scratch]

More often than not these "wackos" I broadly see ARE the ones that pridefully proclaim the REASON they are right IS because they have HIS Spirit (of Truth) testifying to them. The FBI has dealt with a few of the extreme examples of people claiming to be hearing from God (having HIS Spirit of Truth in them). As far as reading and understanding the Bible without error.... NOBODY does that ALL are in error. I tend to see warning signs when someone who is preaching and promoting online uses this reasoning to essentially inversely proclaim those who disagree with them do NOT have his Spirit of Truth in them. If they are indeed hearing in a spiritual sense then that person is essentially CONDEMNING them to listening to a false spirit by proclaiming only they have the Spirit of Truth.

I try to avoid using this "I got God speaking to me" argument to IGNORE the arguments of others here because if I am found to be wrong then essentially I would be guilty on a parallel course of attributing a false spirit unto the Holy Spirit which is heading in the direction of unforgiveable blaphemy by attributing works for the Holy Spirit to demons (false spirits).

Ouch!! My sentiments exactly.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes you see anyone who is a witness for anything is a teacher and of that I am but I do not exalt myself, but I do exalt His Word and Him.



Are you an exalted teacher? You hit at me hard for my testimony.

I'm not here to teach but rather here to expose false doctrine and to hopefully get people to think about things instead of just buying into whatever someone long dead said that they think is the truth.

One way I exalt my God is by Keeping His Holy day, the only day out of the 7 day week He has labeled My Holy Day.

I exalt God throughout my day, every day I don't play this game of I'm better than you because I give God one day... I give God ALL days and nights such that the Sabbath to me is holding back or cheating God for the price he paid for us on the cross..... one day..... phoooey.

I don't care to be in this discussion if you are going to get heated about it.

Between us two I just as soon it was dropped.

I'm not going to drop anything, when you play this game of "I'm not judging" and then turn around and try and convince us we need to keep the Law you are talking out of both sides of your face to us. If the Law for Christians isn't a totally non obligatory non salvic venture then we shouldn't have to put up with Sabbath keepers spamming us to convince us of the necessity of it. The fact you won't let go and stop promoting it tells me that you judge non Sabbath keepers as somehow in error and error for Christians is called sin and judging people as sinful and barraging them about their sins constantly here is condemning them.
I point out that condemning Christians for not keeping the Law is FALSE condemnation.

 

[Gibs]

I'm not here to teach but rather here to expose false doctrine and to hopefully get people to think about things instead of just buying into whatever someone long dead said that they think is the truth.
I exalt God throughout my day, every day I don't play this game of I'm better than you because I give God one day... I give God ALL days and nights such that the Sabbath to me is holding back or cheating God for the price he paid for us on the cross..... one day..... phoooey.

I'm not going to drop anything, when you play this game of "I'm not judging" and then turn around and try and convince us we need to keep the Law you are talking out of both sides of your face to us. If the Law for Christians isn't a totally non obligatory non salvic venture then we shouldn't have to put up with Sabbath keepers spamming us to convince us of the necessity of it. The fact you won't let go and stop promoting it tells me that you judge non Sabbath keepers as somehow in error and error for Christians is called sin and judging people as sinful and barraging them about their sins constantly here is condemning them.
I point out that condemning Christians for not keeping the Law is FALSE condemnation.

I will say this to You and Scratch both, I am dropping it with you both as I find no rhyme and reason in your replies. I have condemned no one, that is your feeling because you feel condemned. This my last post.