Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

[MoreCoffee]

Was it Ellen White who founded the papal states?

 

[Rick Otto]

well London and Washington have very different histories then the Vatican

the Papal States were their own country in central Italy until it was invaded.

you wanna talk about conspiracy theories and stuff, look at the forces of this World that have aligned themselves against the Catholic Church

Yeah, I wanna talk stuff and conspiracy theories.

After all, we both believe the devil is real, and we both know he makes plans, being a clever devil, and we both know those plans include gaining the co-operation of human beings, by hook or by crook.

Since we know the devil is the god of this world, does it not make sense he would make inroads into the largest and most powerful earthly organizations?

 

[Rick Otto]

Was it Ellen White who founded the papal states?

Don't be ridiculous.

It was paper plates, not papal states.

 

[BobRyan]

Was it Ellen White who founded the papal states?

Indeed - did Ellen White make Pope Clement XIV extinguish the Jesuits "forever" by "All the fulness of his apostolic power"???

I don't see a good way of deflecting the Pope' actions on to non-Catholics - but I may be among the few 100's of millions that take that view.

 

[BobRyan]

The SDA video-clips are your friend! They prove the truth of the topic's thesis

The Pope's OWN statements condemning the entire Jesuit order and abolishing it - "prove the truth of the topic's thesis regarding Jesuits".

recall --

News flash - the Pope himself extinguished the Jesuit order "forever" by "All the Apostolic power" that there is in the "seat of Peter" --

the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY:

Papal statement abolishing the Jesuit order – 1773. Clement XIV


"in the present case, we are determining upon the fate of a society classed among the mendicant orders, both by its institute and by its privileges; after a mature deliberation, we do, out of our certain knowledge, and the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY: we deprive it of all activity whatever
...
And to this end a member of the regular clergy, recommendable for his prudence and sound morals, shall be chosen to preside over and govern the said houses; so that the name of the Company shall be, and is, for ever extinguished and suppressed."

Or can that all be blamed on "non-Catholics" ??

How many people on this thread really go for the idea of blaming non-Catholics for what the Pope does???

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Rhamiel]

Yeah, I wanna talk stuff and conspiracy theories.

After all, we both believe the devil is real, and we both know he makes plans, being a clever devil, and we both know those plans include gaining the co-operation of human beings, by hook or by crook.

Since we know the devil is the god of this world, does it not make sense he would make inroads into the largest and most powerful earthly organizations?

that is why the powerful earthly organizations aligned themselves against the Papal States

only 1 country in the entire world supported the Papal States when the worldly forces took over the Papal States, that country was Ecuador, under the leadership of President Garcia Moreno
President Moreno was latter assassinated by a Freemason

Freemasonry, Illuminati, international bankers
these are the worldly forces you need to look into

 

[Rhamiel]

The Pope's OWN statements condemning the entire Jesuit order and abolishing it - "prove the truth of the topic's thesis regarding Jesuits".

so you view the statements of the Pope as authoritative and worthy of trust?

anyways, judicial rulings do not fall under the infallibility

it is arguable that this was not even a judicial ruling but rather a prudential ruling

the Pope never said that the Jesuits were guilty of any of the accusations, just that accusations have been made and that the presence of the Jesuits have been disruptive, not saying who was at fault for the disruption, just that there was one.

 

[BobRyan]

So then Pope Clement XIV makes this public statement and declares the Jesuit order abolished 'by all fullness of Apostolic power" -- and then both he and the pope after him (and even the Pope after that for at least a few years) keep them --- abolished...

yet "somehow" this can all be blamed on non-Catholics??

Seriously?

You aren't helping your case for why SDA's need to be taken seriously. Cause things like this is just so ridiculous that all it makes you lot look like are uneducated fools.

you can lead a horse to water....

 

[Rhamiel]

the Pope was pressured to abolish the Jesuits by the House of Bourbon

 

[squint]

the Pope was pressured to abolish the Jesuits by the House of Bourbon

The purveyor of all truth, influenced by politics?

Say it isn't so.

 

[BobRyan]

so you view the statements of the Pope as authoritative and worthy of trust?
.

I view the statements of the Pope as 'Catholic' -- how "odd" say some .. "why not blame the Pope's actions on non-Catholics" appears to be the solution of choice.

I view of the statements of Popes and Jesuits as often being either misguided or .... though that does not mean that everything they say has to be a lie or evil or some other bad sort.

Here again - I am going with the obvious.

I think that one person having the Catholic POV should be willing to join me in that regard.

You simply cannot blame the Pope's actions on non-Catholics "when it is convenient to do so" it looks like "any ol' excuse will do".

And when 1 or 2 non-Catholics resort to a desperate tactic that would be difficult even for cradle-catholics - they have no excuse.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

the Pope was pressured to abolish the Jesuits by the House of Bourbon

And the Pope after him??

And the Pope after that - who left them abolished for even a few years of his Papal reign?

Are they all to blame their actions on the non-Catholics.

Was the house of Bourbon also "non-Catholic"?

or are you simply saying other Catholics made him do it?

Recall that catholic-against-catholic violence in the dark ages as Papal armies went to war against each other was not all that uncommon.

Still if we can blame everything the Pope does on non-catholics even when the Pope speaks "with all the fulness of apostolic power" then what good is it to have a Pope??

You are shooting your own system with this one.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The purveyor of all truth, influenced by politics?

Say it isn't so.

If whatever the Pope says "in all the fulness of his apostolic power" is really nothing more than evil politics playing itself out - even in extreme examples -- like the treatment of an entire order of priests - and declaring them to be morally bankrupt, in doctrinal error, a threat to christianity, bringing Christians to massacre each other ... etc -- then what point is there to having a Pope at all??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[squint]

If whatever the Pope says "in all the fulness of his apostolic power" is really nothing more than evil politics playing itself out - even in extreme examples -- like the treatment of an entire order of priests - and declaring them to be morally bankrupt, in doctrinal error, a threat to christianity, bringing Christians to massacre each other ... etc -- then what point is there to having a Pope at all??

in Christ,

Bob

Indeed.

Heaven forbid we look at them for the reality of being sinners in their distribution of 'all truth.' Apparently the bold above lends no influences to their positions whatsoever?

Sure, right.

It is no mysterious conspiracy theory that the RCC believes it's place is at the top of the feeding chain of world government running their version of theocracy. They did pull it off on a small scale. Thank God it wasn't allowed to get any bigger. There were enough killings for that sampling to prove what they are all about.

It's one of the sticking points with the other orthodox that they got their noses so far buried into government matters.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We have secret reasons for saying that Ellen White was a Jesuit in disguise.

 

[Lollerskates]

Ugh.

I have no idea of the SDA faith, and their "obsession" with Ellen White.

I will say that as a non denominational Christian, I admire a denominations adherence to the 4th commandment - no matter if it is the "right day." I am sure if I can see the "attempt," God sees much more.

And, apparently I also resonate with some of what Ellen White says, as I have been called a follower of hers, having no idea who she is. Maybe people should use discernment with her teachings? She may be on to some thing...

But, she is human. She is allowed mistakes in theology.

Having said that, why is Ellen White the "go to" scoffing dismissal? As I said before, SDAs aren't the only ones "paranoid" about Jesuit history. Most Church history is nefarious if you look deep enough. Acts should be a testament on how early Church was already on the downhill.

I just don't get singling out SDAs, and Ellen White on these forums. Can someone point me to some literature to decide for myself (before I do it on my own)?

 

[mmksparbud]

We have secret reasons for saying that Ellen White was a Jesuit in disguise.

LOL---just be careful--remember the closet SDA's in Catholic seminaries--and if there are closet SDA priests--you could end up with a closet SDA Pope!!---after all---wasn't there a female Pope Joan that you all have tried to deny ever happened????!! hhhmmmm?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

If whatever the Pope says "in all the fulness of his apostolic power" is really nothing more than evil politics playing itself out - even in extreme examples -- like the treatment of an entire order of priests - and declaring them to be morally bankrupt, in doctrinal error, a threat to christianity, bringing Christians to massacre each other ... etc -- then what point is there to having a Pope at all??

in Christ,

Bob

All of his apostolic power last about as long as he's in power. That power is past to the next Pope. Now why would this bother you? Let's say a pope makes a big mistake (that should not be hard for you), should there not be something in place where they don't have to live with it forever? Seems such is built in. So is it just sour grape that you noticed this?
Taking certain Catholic words and phrases as literal in the English meaning can lead you to some crazy ideas. Example; The Immaculate Conception of Mary. An average Joe speaking English could easily assume this means Mary's parents had no intercourse to produce Mary. But that's not the meaning.
Another example Infallible. If we take that too literal it means the Pope is God.
So as you present yourself as well steeped in Catholic writings, could you tell me what the Catholic Church says it means? Is it the man or the office? Does it mean it's impossible to be inaccurate? Or does it simply mean it's the law until later revised? Or something altogether different.
Does the Catholic church teach that a pope is sinless? Does a Pope confess?
Just some questions you might ask yourself and investigate.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

We have secret reasons for saying that Ellen White was a Jesuit in disguise.

But she's infallible. Her prophecies are 103% correct as it's an utter impossibility that it was those turnips she had for supper causing her to think she was hearing from Orion.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

LOL---just be careful--remember the closet SDA's in Catholic seminaries--and if there are closet SDA priests--you could end up with a closet SDA Pope!!---after all---wasn't there a female Pope Joan that you all have tried to deny ever happened????!! hhhmmmm?

I am so happy to meet a SDA member with a good sense of humor.

May it be contagious as laughter is a good medicine.