Gun control from a Christian perspective

[food4thought]

I am very conflicted over this issue... I believe that it is right for a person to protect his life and family's lives by harming someone who is intending to harm them. The same could be said of a total stranger that I see being harmed.

Yet I believe that God does not want us to respond with an "eye for an eye" mentality... we should be willing to suffer wrong, even die, rather than misrepresent God. That is who we are: God's representative, "ambassadors" as Paul put it, here on earth.

Are we sensitive enough to God's Spirit to know when He would have us be lambs and when He would have us be lions? Because as far as I can tell, there is a time for both... the bottom line is that we must be led by the Spirit if we are to please God.

 

[peterandrewj]

I see some justify lethal action, and some aren't sure.

Let me ask, if you saw two people fighting on the street, would you cheer? Would you pick a side, lets say for the victim and against the aggressor? Would you justify the vicitm and encourage him to beat down the agressor?

I think this scenario applies to countries in conflict, like Israel and Palestine, where people take sides and justify the violence.

Would Jesus ever condone violence or speak out against it without partiality?

Okay, so you have a right to protect your property even by lethal measures. What if you were being threatened with your life to deny Jesus, would you justify the use of lethal measures to defend yourself?

I believe Violence is never christian, and never justified. I'm inclined to choose the armor of God for every adversity this world can throw at me, than find peace, strength, etc through guns.

May God bless our spirits to do righteousness in the face of every evil.

 

[Aldebaran]

Acts 22:25:
But when they stretched him out with thongs, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, "Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman and uncondemned?"

Notice in this biblical instance that Paul uses what he has (his citizenship) to keep himself from being scourged. One could ask, "Why didn't he just let it happen and earn reward from God for suffering for Him?" I think the answer is that God expects us to give up our pride, but He never asked us to give up our integrity.

I say, if you are inclined to own a firearm to protect yourself, then do so. But use it to protect yourself only if necessary. If someone has broken into your home, give the intruder a chance to surrender, then call the police. But if he pulls out a gun and aims it at you, then shoot him. We may have been told that we may die for our faith, but I don't think Jesus meant that we have to allow ourselves to die for ANYone who wants to kill us, especially if it's to eliminate a witness to a crime.

 

[Aldebaran]

I believe Violence is never christian, and never justified. I'm inclined to choose the armor of God for every adversity this world can throw at me, than find peace, strength, etc through guns.

The armor you refer to is to protect you spiritually. I don't believe our Lord would frown on us having physical armor for physical threats. He did say that if you don't have a sword, to sell your cloak and buy one.

 

[BryanW92]

I believe Violence is never christian, and never justified. I'm inclined to choose the armor of God for every adversity this world can throw at me, than find peace, strength, etc through guns.

Every adversity? Do you wear a seatbelt or count on God to hold you in your seat in an auto accident? Do you wear gloves when reaching into a woodpile, or let the armor of God protect you from snakes and splinters?

The armor of God is spritual armor designed to protect you from Satan, who will be attacking you constantly. Even when you strap on your gun to go out into the world, you still wear the armor of God and take his sword and shield in hand because Satan will tell you that this guy or that guy are "dissin'" you and you should just shoot them for it.

A person who carries a gun for defense has chosen to take on a role in society of protector and they need the armor of God even more than others because they may have to make a split-second decision and they do not need Satan whispering in their ear.

 

[peterandrewj]

Whether or not to own a gun may be a matter of conscience, and people rationalize their choices, but adding God's approval could be shaky ground.

It seems odd that someone would kill for property but die for Jesus. And to kill rather than be killed is your reasoning, or else why would Jesus say....

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[RDKirk]

Whether or not to own a gun may be a matter of conscience, and people rationalize their choices, but adding God's approval could be shaky ground.

It seems odd that someone would kill for property but die for Jesus. And to kill rather than be killed is your reasoning, or else why would Jesus say....

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And that is the point of my position in #13:

Of course, pagans are concerned about such things and run after them, and it's natural to do so. But let's be honest and admit that our desire for such things is not a matter of "Christian perspective."

I say this from the position of having been military most of my adult life, having carried a weapon as a civilian in the past, and with an intention of carrying one again in the very near future.

I can come up with all the biblical rationale for this that anyone can...but the fact is, Jesus wouldn't need to carry a gun. He'd know how to defuse any situation without it. If I were as strong in faith as Jesus, I'd never need a gun either.

Alas, I'm weak, fearful, and sinful, and often fall back on the same crutches that pagans require. But I won't try to declare it righteous.

 

[peterandrewj]

Every adversity? The armor of God is spritual armor designed to protect you from Satan, who will be attacking you constantly..

Yep the armor of God is spiritual, and my life is in the spirit and not the flesh. And Satan has the whole world working for him.

 

[peterandrewj]

If we're going to view this from a Christian perspective (which is not the same thing as viewing it from a pagan perspective and rationalizing those conclusions with the bible), it should work the same way wherever the Church may be.

IOW, if gun ownership is necessary for Christians to do their Christian mission--which is what "from a Christian perspective" must mean--in the US, then it must be just as necessary for Christians to own guns everywhere in order to carry out the Christian mission.

So that means gun-owning Christians in America should be far more effective in spreading the gospel than non-gun-owning Christians in China.

That's not the case, however. Christians in America tend to be less fruitful in the mission of evangelism than those in places where gun ownership is tightly controlled, and far less fruitful than those places where gun ownership is outright outlawed. There is no positive correlation.

This is like "can a Christian be wealthy?"

Of course, pagans are concerned about such things and run after them, and it's natural to do so. But let's be honest and admit that our desire for such things is not a matter of "Christian perspective."

I say this from the position of having been military most of my adult life, having carried a weapon as a civilian in the past, and with an intention of carrying one again in the very near future.

I can come up with all the biblical rationale for this that anyone can...but the fact is, Jesus wouldn't need to carry a gun. He'd know how to defuse any situation without it. If I were as strong in faith as Jesus, I'd never need a gun either.

Alas, I'm weak, fearful, and sinful, and often fall back on the same crutches that pagans require. But I won't try to declare it righteous.

Good point.

 

[BryanW92]

Yep the armor of God is spiritual, and my life is in the spirit and not the flesh. And Satan has the whole world working for him.

I'm not as spiritual as you. As long as I live in this flesh, I will wear seatbelts, safety glasses, gloves, steel-toed boots, etc as the situation demands. I'll take medicine for diseases and wash my hands after I use the bathroom. I will fight fires with water and extinguishers instead of praying for the flames to go away. I will also wear the spiritual armor for the spiritual dangers, but I understand that physical dangers are physical and need to be mitigated with physical means.

 

[peterandrewj]

I'm not as spiritual as you. As long as I live in this flesh, I will wear seatbelts, safety glasses, gloves, steel-toed boots, etc as the situation demands. I'll take medicine for diseases and wash my hands after I use the bathroom. I will fight fires with water and extinguishers instead of praying for the flames to go away. I will also wear the spiritual armor for the spiritual dangers, but I understand that physical dangers are physical and need to be mitigated with physical means.

Seatbelts don't take lives. But pack all the heat you feel you need, with self defense as your plea. Unrighteous judges will exonerate you. But the one who judges righteously says, Blessed are the peacemakers. If you live by him you shall never die.

 

[ALoveDivine]

I own a gun, I know how to use a gun, I enjoy shooting as a sport, and I am prepared to use a gun to defend myself and/or the innocent. I see nowhere in scripture where defending innocent people from malicious attack is condemned. Nor do I find anywhere in scripture where defending your own life, when all other options fail, is condemned. Absolute pacifism is not taught in the bible, though violence should always be the last resort.

It really comes down to the individual Christian and your individual circumstances. I live in the slums of the east side of Detroit, and people get robbed, assaulted, and murdered all the time. Two people died on my street just a few nights ago. For me, having a gun and knowing how to use it is a matter of common sense.

In Michigan I am allowed to open carry my pistol, and I do. I've personally had a revolver pointed at me from the window of a moving car; praise the Lord I wasn't shot. As I've come to understand this issue, through prayer and the study of scripture, it is wise to be prepared, especially if you live in a dangerous situation. Yet employing violence should always be an absolute last resort. I also trust in the providence of God, that he will guide my steps should any extremely dangerous situation befall me.

This is an issue where we should not be dogmatic. It may be hard for a more well-off, suburban Christian to understand what a poor Christian living in the ghetto has to deal with. Ultimately my trust is in the Lord, and I know I will not leave this earth a moment before my appointed time. Yet I feel a responsibility to defend myself and the innocent if it comes down to it.

 

[Boidae]

Seatbelts don't take lives. But pack all the heat you feel you need, with self defense as your plea. Unrighteous judges will exonerate you. But the one who judges righteously says, Blessed are the peacemakers. If you live by him you shall never die.

Yes, you correct, but He is speaking of a spiritual death, not a physical one.

While I do not currently have a firearm in my home, I have been thinking of getting one to protect my home and family. I am thinking of getting one because I will not stand by idly while the is a physical threat to my family. I willnot stand there while my wife or daughter possibly gets raped.

If you can stand there and do nothing, more power to you, like Bryan, I just am not as spiritual as you and probably never will be as I will always defend my family with any means necessary and even if it means I die in the process.

 

[peterandrewj]

Yes, you correct, but He is speaking of a spiritual death, not a physical one .

Lazarus was physically dead when Jesus said to Martha...

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If you can stand there and do nothing, more power to you, like Bryan, I just am not as spiritual as you and probably never will be as I will always defend my family with any means necessary and even if it means I die in the process.

It's funny when people say you're too spiritual, or turn it into fanaticism or something unrealistic. I hear Pastors using it against certain christians. We sure do live in perilous times.

I guess I'm the one who's strange for trusting my life to God, but enough said for the time being.

 

[Boidae]

Lazarus was physically dead when Jesus said to Martha...

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?




It's funny when people say you're too spiritual, or turn it into fanaticism or something unrealistic. I hear Pastors using it against certain christians. We sure do live in perilous times.

I guess I'm the one who's strange for trusting my life to God, but enough said for the time being.

So I guess you believe that you will never die a physical death?

 

[BryanW92]

Lazarus was physically dead when Jesus said to Martha...

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?




It's funny when people say you're too spiritual, or turn it into fanaticism or something unrealistic. I hear Pastors using it against certain christians. We sure do live in perilous times.

I guess I'm the one who's strange for trusting my life to God, but enough said for the time being.

How many people has Jesus raised from the dead in this century? We can speak in hypotheticals all day long but no one knows how they will face death until they face death.

When my time comes, I may be well-armed, trained, and ready to fight and I may choose to take no action and not even touch my weapon because I will know at that moment that it is right to die.

So, who is the more spiritual person: the one who has the means to resist and chooses not to or the one who has no choice but to die?

It is our free will that makes us be in God's image. Angels and demons live by blind obedience. Our decisions determine our fate.

If you read through the active threads on this forum right now, you would find that a Good Christian:

1) Obeys every word of Jesus as a commandment
2) Does not work for money
3) Owns nothing
4) Will not protect himself
5) Takes no precautions because God will provide

If I believed that God wanted us to live that pathetically as little more than a herd animal, I would find another faith. Or, actually not have one at all.

 

[Aldebaran]

1) Obeys every word of Jesus as a commandment
2) Does not work for money
3) Owns nothing
4) Will not protect himself
5) Takes no precautions because God will provide

If I believed that God wanted us to live that pathetically as little more than a herd animal, I would find another faith. Or, actually not have one at all.

I've noticed this too. As a Christian myself, I understand that there are things God does for me, and things He expects me to do. I'm currently trying to communicate with someone who doesn't believe we should work for money because I would like to know how they themselves do it, but they won't tell me! I don't understand why not. I mean, if that's how to live, then tell me how it's done! But noooooo.......:o

 

[ALoveDivine]

I could not resist but to address these points because, you are right, some 'Christians' actually seem to believe them.

Obeys every word of Jesus as a commandment

If any 'Christian' actually thinks this way of themselves, not only are they grossly deceived, they have committed the sin of pride and have thereby disobeyed the Lord's command to be meek and poor in spirit.

Does not work for money

He who does not work neither shall he eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). God is glorified in his children earning their living by working.

Will not protect himself

Did not Jesus himself command his apostles to carry a sword (Luke 22:36)? Surely that would be an example of the Lord himself sanctioning self-defense. Using the Sermon on the Mount to justify absolute pacifism is an error; the sermon concerns the character and the heart of the regenerate, it does not contain some kind of literal command to passively let yourself be tortured or murdered. Though again, as I've said, violence must always be our last resort.

Takes no precautions because God will provide

Indeed, God does provide. For example, he provided us with common sense

 

[South Bound]

I've not seen a thread about this in this area and I'm curious what other people may think. Please keep it friendly. ^.^

Should Christians own guns (on the understanding that the owner is prepared to use it)?

Depends on the Christian. I do.

 

[Vanguard PCD]

I own guns.
I shoot guns.

I am prepared to use a gun to defend my life and family.
I have been highly trained with guns (army and law enforcement).

I believe in the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment.

An armed society is a polite society. When everyone that is a legal adult owns/carries a gun, very little crime actually takes place. Switzerland has mandatory gun ownership for adults and also boasts one of the lowest crime rates.

School shootings happen because gun owners are not responsible with their firearms. They should be locked up and children should not have access to the keys/combinations.

Less than 1% of US crimes involving a gun are actually committed by a law abiding registered gun owner. That means 99% of the gun crimes are unaffected by "gun control measures" because criminals could care less about the laws.

Gun control is being able to hit your target.

FYI- cars kill more people each year than guns. As do cigarettes, alcohol, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, pneumonia, and infections. As a matter of fact, gun deaths don't even break into the top 20 causes of death each year.

Pick something else to try and rant about.