Justification from Eternity

[JM]

moonbeam,

Calvinists disagree on the subject of justification from eternity but it is an in house debate.

jm

 

[twin1954]

Your reasoning is sufficiently plausible to be acceptable.


PS: I would have thought that my initial post #61 “I would like to hear an explanation from those who espouse eternal justification regarding this particular scripture.”...in combination with my latter statement from post #67 would have provided you with a plausible reason to infer otherwise, in regards my intent, than the conclusion you settled on.

I accept that my use of the word “dismiss” was a poor choice in retrospect...”overthrow” or “undermine” would have been preferable to express my intended intent.

In regards being “argumentative” there would be very few people who post in the soteriology forum (99% of my posts) from either camp who would not qualify for that dubious distinction...from time to time.

And I do believe you would have the potential to qualify for that distinction yourself considering this note I found, in your handwriting, which must have slipped out of your pocket unintentionally, as you were leaving the building in post #76 "PS: moonbeam, lay off the granola, it's making you too aggressive"


Now that we have introduced ourselves to each other (so to speak)...eyeing each other warily from opposite corners of a dingy smoke filled bar littered with the lifeless remains of all those who have contested with us...only we remain...hats tilted well forward casting an impenetrable shadow over our features, hands light and easy on our holsters...listening to the sound of silence.


Gird up your loins...and prepare for battle.


.

I can think of only one reason why anyone would want to do battle with their brother: in order to show off your intellect. Sorry but I am not impressed by intellect or by education, I am impressed by truth derived from Scriptures.

Sad to say far too many Calvinists want to show off their education and intellect. Instead use the gifts God gave you to edify not show off. I recognize that an education is expensive and that an intellectual acumen is greatly to be desired but if we use it to edify it shows without us ever seeking to show it off.

 

[twin1954]

AMR is obviously one who is highly educated and intellectual to the extreme but he is a great example of not seeking to show it off. I may disagree with him but he has my utmost respect.

 

[JM]

AMR is obviously one who is highly educated and intellectual to the extreme but he is a great example of not seeking to show it off. I may disagree with him but he has my utmost respect.

Amen. I second that. When AMR makes a post I always read it two or three times and check myself with what he posts. When a hothead comes on the forum and starts bloviating I just stop reading.

jm

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Is this a matter of semantics? Sometimes scripture letting us see things from God's eternal perspective as in (me paraphrasing) "I have determined and decreed it, so it's as good as done."
And other times giving it from man's perspective in time and history?

I like your response. In giving this further thought, I think there is a sense where we can agree with justification from eternity, the same as elect from eternity. It is more justification and election from the Divine perspective, as a part of the omniscience of God. However, I believe it is error to teach that God's elect, though chosen from eternity are at birth automatically regenerated and justified (keeping a Reformed order of salvation in mind). The plan is from eternity but the working out of the plan is in time, according to time of God's choosing. I do believe in a few exceptions, like John the Baptist, who would seem to have been regenerated while in his mother's womb. And God can regenerate and justify infants, especially those whom die in infancy, I just wouldn't consider it the norm. So perhaps it's not as black and white as I first thought. Things always get more complicated when thinking in terms of temporal time and eternity involving a past, present, and future.

 

[stenerson]

However, I believe it is error to teach that God's elect, though chosen from eternity are at birth automatically regenerated and justified (keeping a Reformed order of salvation in mind). The plan is from eternity but the working out of the plan is in time, according to time of God's choosing.

Yep, scripture is definitely clear concerning regeneration taking place in time. If not the phrase "born again" or "born from above" would make no sense.

 

[moonbeam]

I can think of only one reason why anyone would want to do battle with their brother: in order to show off your intellect. Sorry but I am not impressed by intellect or by education, I am impressed by truth derived from Scriptures.

Sad to say far too many Calvinists want to show off their education and intellect. Instead use the gifts God gave you to edify not show off. I recognize that an education is expensive and that an intellectual acumen is greatly to be desired but if we use it to edify it shows without us ever seeking to show it off






.

You…know…nothing…about…me.


.

 

[twin1954]

You…know…nothing…about…me.


.

You are right I know nothing about you. But I can read the tenor and style of your posts.

 

[JustAsIam77]

I see this subject was deep sixed on PB in 2011, I don't know squat about it.

 

[JM]

I see this subject was deep sixed on PB in 2011, I don't know squat about it.

Anything outside the Reformed tradition is deep sixed in PB. Most who visit PB have to admit it is a microcosm of 16th century Presbyterianism. They diss anyone who isn't them, even guys like John Frame get called "unconfessional."

 

[JustAsIam77]

My brother JM, I meant no disrespect.

Yours in Christ

 

[JM]

No problem brother, I didn't see you comment as disrespectful at all. I just don't believe "Semper" means "only until the 16th century." Lol

 

[AMR]

Anything outside the Reformed tradition is deep sixed in PB. Most who visit PB have to admit it is a microcosm of 16th century Presbyterianism. They diss anyone who isn't them, even guys like John Frame get called "unconfessional."

Duly noted. Sigh.

 

[moonbeam]

I am impressed by truth derived from Scriptures.

Would you be interested in continuing our discussion where we left of ?

If so than I will reply to your last response to me which was your post #77

.

 

[moonbeam]

moonbeam,

Calvinists disagree on the subject of justification from eternity but it is an in house debate.

jm

Would you be interested in continuing with the discussion ?

If so than I will make a reply to the latter section of your post #79

.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

There is absolutely no way to know the answer to this.

 

[twin1954]

There is absolutely no way to know the answer to this.

I am not sure I understand why you make such a statement.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I am not sure I understand why you make such a statement.

That's because I'm half idiot.

 

[JM]

22% redneck.

I came in at 62%.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

22% redneck.

I came in at 62%.

Lol. Nice.