Ancient Baptism For the Dead?

[NYCGuy]

Going off of 1 Corinthians 15:29, what, if any, is the ancient evidence that Christians performed proxy water baptisms for the dead, presumably sharing in the LDS interpretation of that verse?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

They have none, which is why it is just a claim. The best they can do is suggest some people may have been doing it. That such a suggestion makes the claim a true representation of the traditions/practices of the early Church is just adding one claim on top of another. Pile it deeper and hope no one notices the smell so to speak.

 

[Ironhold]

The Coptics and the Marcionites alike were both known to practice vicarious baptism along with a few other groups, and the author of the paper found at least one Jewish analog to vicarious baptism.

So yes, the practice was known in ancient times. And while most people might be willing to write the Marcionites off as heretics, I've yet to hear anyone argue that the Copts are heretics.

 

[Der Alte]

The Coptics and the Marcionites alike were both known to practice vicarious baptism along with a few other groups, and the author of the paper found at least one Jewish analog to vicarious baptism.

So yes, the practice was known in ancient times. And while most people might be willing to write the Marcionites off as heretics, I've yet to hear anyone argue that the Copts are heretics.

I just skimmed through that document. Can you please quote the parts which show that the Copts practiced baptism for the dead? I can't find any.

 

[NYCGuy]

The Coptics and the Marcionites alike were both known to practice vicarious baptism along with a few other groups, and the author of the paper found at least one Jewish analog to vicarious baptism.

So yes, the practice was known in ancient times. And while most people might be willing to write the Marcionites off as heretics, I've yet to hear anyone argue that the Copts are heretics.

Thanks.

Yes, based on what the Marcionites believed:

Marcionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not surprised that people write them off as heretics, since they clearly believed in heretical doctrines.

I didn't see any evidence in that article that the Copts performed proxy water baptisms for the dead, could you please quote it specifically in case I missed it? It would indeed be interesting if an orthodox/traditional Christian group was performing proxy water baptisms.

 

[Ironhold]

It's right at the start of the paper:

One of the practices that sets the Coptic Church apart from most of the Christian world is that of proxy baptism for the dead. In order to understand the rationale for this ceremony, it is necessary to both establish its antiquity in Christianity and to discuss some of its antecedents in the ancient Egyptian religion.

From there:

The monophysitic church of Egypt was not represented at these minor councils and hence did not feel bound to discontinue the practice. To my knowledge, only two Christian congregations have continued to practice proxy baptisms for the dead through the centuries. These are the Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran and the Copts of Egypt. Two modern churches–The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) and some of the Neo-Apostolic congregations of Europe–have revived the practice during the last century and a half.

Baptism of the souls of the dead or of their resurrected bodies is a frequent theme in the descensus stories, many of which come from Egypt. The Epistle of the Apostles, known from a complete Ethiopic version, a fragmentary fifth century Latin manuscript (now in Vienna) and a fourth or fifth century mutilated Coptic manuscript in Cairo, is an example. It places the following words in the mouth of Jesus, visiting with his apostles after the resurrection:

For to that end went I down unto the place of Lazarus, and preached unto the righteous and the prophets, that they might come out of the rest which is below and come up into that which is above; and I poured out upon them with my right hand the water [baptism, Ethiopic text] of life and forgiveness and salvation from all evil, as I have done unto you and unto them that believe on me.

Prof. Hugh Nibley has dealt with the subject of baptism for the dead in Coptic pseudepigrapha, notably in the third century document known as Pistis Sophia. This esoteric work, describing the afterworld, notes:

They will all test that soul to find their signs in it, as well as their seals and their baptisms and their anointing. And the virgin of the Light will seal that soul, and the workers will baptize it and give it the spiritual anointing.

Nibley further notes that the document speaks of how those who remain in the place of testing, the “in-between” place (i.e., the earth) should perform the ordinances of baptism, anointing and sealing for those who died without the opportunity to receive them in this life.

Another possible reference to baptism for the dead is in the Coptic Gospel of Philip, one of the documents found at Nag Hamadi in 1945. Here, we read that those who are baptized can become the servants of others, freeing them through the work of love that they, too, may enjoy the anointing at the hands of those who have received it.

The point that Nibley repeated makes in regard to the Coptic pseudepigrapha is that it is not only related to other early Christian literature, but that it is highly dependent upon earlier Egyptian texts. Concerning baptism for the dead, for example, he gives many references to water purification in ancient Egypt, both for the living and the dead. Indeed, washing in water was essential to the resurrection from the dead in ancient Egypt, just as is baptism in the pseudepigraphal literature cited above.

Viewed in this light, one can see why the Copts, of all the early Christian churches, retained baptism for the dead. Some of the factors contributing to the ease with which they accepted this practice are as follows:

 

[NYCGuy]

It's right at the start of the paper:



From there:

Let us look at the quotes given:

"One of the practices that sets the Coptic Church apart from most of the Christian world is that of proxy baptism for the dead. In order to understand the rationale for this ceremony, it is necessary to both establish its antiquity in Christianity and to discuss some of its antecedents in the ancient Egyptian religion."

-this is merely an assertion so far. Further, we must be clear about which church we're talking about. By "Coptic Church", I assume he is referring to the Coptic Orthodox Church. This fact will be very important soon.

"The monophysitic church of Egypt was not represented at these minor councils and hence did not feel bound to discontinue the practice. To my knowledge, only two Christian congregations have continued to practice proxy baptisms for the dead through the centuries. These are the Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran and the Copts of Egypt. Two modern churches–The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) and some of the Neo-Apostolic congregations of Europe–have revived the practice during the last century and a half."

-In the paragraph just before this one, he asserts that baptism for the dead was a practice in "some orthodox Christian circles". This is yet another assertion without evidence. He points to the statements of local councils at Carthage and Hippo, yet they do not claim that this was a practice being done in "some orthodox Christian circles" (indeed, various Church councils address heretical practices outside of the Church). Further, the actual statement of the council he quoted states that it is forbidden to give the Eucharist and baptism to "dead bodies"; this is not a proxy practice at all.

-Curious that he refers to the Mandaeans as a Christian congregation that continued the practice of proxy baptism for the dead. They aren't Christian at all, rejecting Jesus Christ:

Mandaeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Baptism of the souls of the dead or of their resurrected bodies is a frequent theme in the descensus stories, many of which come from Egypt. The Epistle of the Apostles, known from a complete Ethiopic version, a fragmentary fifth century Latin manuscript (now in Vienna) and a fourth or fifth century mutilated Coptic manuscript in Cairo, is an example. It places the following words in the mouth of Jesus, visiting with his apostles after the resurrection:

For to that end went I down unto the place of Lazarus, and preached unto the righteous and the prophets, that they might come out of the rest which is below and come up into that which is above; and I poured out upon them with my right hand the water [baptism, Ethiopic text] of life and forgiveness and salvation from all evil, as I have done unto you and unto them that believe on me."

-Maybe I have poor reading comprehension skills, however the above quote says nothing of a proxy water baptism rite.

"Prof. Hugh Nibley has dealt with the subject of baptism for the dead in Coptic pseudepigrapha, notably in the third century document known as Pistis Sophia. This esoteric work, describing the afterworld, notes:

They will all test that soul to find their signs in it, as well as their seals and their baptisms and their anointing. And the virgin of the Light will seal that soul, and the workers will baptize it and give it the spiritual anointing.

Nibley further notes that the document speaks of how those who remain in the place of testing, the “in-between” place (i.e., the earth) should perform the ordinances of baptism, anointing and sealing for those who died without the opportunity to receive them in this life.

Another possible reference to baptism for the dead is in the Coptic Gospel of Philip, one of the documents found at Nag Hamadi in 1945. Here, we read that those who are baptized can become the servants of others, freeing them through the work of love that they, too, may enjoy the anointing at the hands of those who have received it.

The point that Nibley repeated makes in regard to the Coptic pseudepigrapha is that it is not only related to other early Christian literature, but that it is highly dependent upon earlier Egyptian texts. Concerning baptism for the dead, for example, he gives many references to water purification in ancient Egypt, both for the living and the dead. Indeed, washing in water was essential to the resurrection from the dead in ancient Egypt, just as is baptism in the pseudepigraphal literature cited above.

Viewed in this light, one can see why the Copts, of all the early Christian churches, retained baptism for the dead. Some of the factors contributing to the ease with which they accepted this practice are as follows:"

-Here we come back to the point I brought up earlier: by "Coptic Church", we are talking about the Coptic Orthodox Church, correct? If so, I fail to see why texts such as the Gospel of Philip or Pistis Sophia have any relevance to this matter, since, as you may be aware, they are Gnostic texts. Sure, they may have originated in Egypt, and are therefore "Coptic" (meaning Egyptian), but they have nothing at all to do with the Coptic Church, which is quite obviously not Gnosticism, and certainly has never viewed such works as canonical. Oddly, Nibley then refers to Pagan Egyptian practices in reference to water purification for the living and the dead.

SO, from all of this, we have yet to see that the Coptic Church was performing proxy water baptisms for the dead, let alone that this was a Christian practice (since we have so far seen references to non-Christian Marcionism, Mandaeism, and Gnosticism).

 

[Steve Petersen]

The earliest believers were Jews, who had a custom of washing the dead before burial.

Additionally, they had to immerse themselves after corpse contamination to become ritually pure again with regard to the Temple.

 

[Ran77]

Further, we must be clear about which church we're talking about. By "Coptic Church", I assume he is referring to the Coptic Orthodox Church. This fact will be very important soon.

Wouldn't the "Coptic" church be the Coptic church, just like the "Catholic" church is the Catholic church?

SO, from all of this, we have yet to see that the Coptic Church was performing proxy water baptisms for the dead, let alone that this was a Christian practice (since we have so far seen references to non-Christian Marcionism, Mandaeism, and Gnosticism).

I think we can also see the beginning of a series of arguments that simply dismiss any denomination that practiced baptism for the dead as not being Christian based on your determination of what is and what is not Christian.


:o

 

[NYCGuy]

Wouldn't the "Coptic" church be the Coptic church, just like the "Catholic" church is the Catholic church?

CopticChurch.Net - Coptic Orthodox Church Network

"Information about the Coptic Orthodox Church, its history, beliefs, and practices."

The proper name of the historic "Coptic Church" is the "Coptic Orthodox Church". I'm merely calling attention to the specific Church that is presumably being referred to (to be clear, there is also the "Coptic Catholic Church", which is in full communion with Rome, as part of "the Catholic Church", in contrast to the Coptic Orthodox Church, which is not)

I think we can also see the beginning of a series of arguments that simply dismiss any denomination that practiced baptism for the dead as not being Christian based on your determination of what is and what is not Christian.


:o

The Fairmormon article itself specifically states-"That baptism for the dead was indeed practiced in some orthodox Christian circles is indicated by the decisions of two late fourth century councils."

"
Mandaeism or Mandaeanism (Modern Mandaic: Mandaʻiūtā‎ (מנדעיותא Arabic: مندائية‎ Mandāʼīyah/Mandāʾiyyah) is a gnostic religion[1]:4[2]:4 (Aramaic manda means "knowledge," as does Greek gnosis) with a strongly dualistic worldview. Its adherents, the Mandaeans, revere Adam, Abel, Seth, Enosh, Noah, Shem, Aram and especially John the Baptist, but reject Abraham, Moses and Jesus of Nazareth.[3][4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaeism#cite_note-4


Mandaeans maintain that Jesus was a mšiha kdaba "false messiah"[23] who perverted the teachings entrusted to him by John. The Mandaic word k(a)daba, however, might be interpreted as being derived from either of two roots: the first root, meaning "to lie," is the one traditionally ascribed to Jesus; the second, meaning "to write," might provide a second meaning, that of "book;" hence some Mandaeans, motivated perhaps by an ecumenical spirit, maintain that Jesus was not a "lying Messiah" but a "book Messiah," the "book" in question presumably being the Christian Gospels. This seems to be a folk etymology without support in the Mandaean texts.[24]
Likewise, the Mandaeans believe that Abraham and Moses were false prophets,[25] but recognize other prophetic figures from the Abrahamic traditions, such as Adam, his sons Hibil (Abel) and Šitil (Seth), and his grandson Anuš (Enosh), as well as Nuh (Noah), his son Sam (Shem) and his son Ram (Aram). The latter three they consider to be their direct ancestors.
Mandaeans consider the holy spirit that is known as Ruha d-Qudsha in the Talmud and Bible to be an evil being."
Mandaeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yep, sounds Christian.


Please do not derail my thread.

 

[woodpecker]

This is not about the Coptic church....

Apostle Paul is talking about the physical and spiritual death that came to us through Adam.

21 So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. 22 Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. 23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. (1corithians 15)
.......
We are being baptized to represent our being born new, we represent our own death to life, and a witness to what others may receive..
29 If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?


.....

 

[NYCGuy]

This is not about the Coptic church....

Apostle Paul is talking about the physical and spiritual death that came to us through Adam.

21 So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. 22 Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. 23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. (1corithians 15)
.......
We are being baptized to represent our being born new, we represent our own death to life, and a witness to what others may receive..
29 If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?


.....

The OP:

Going off of 1 Corinthians 15:29, what, if any, is the ancient evidence that Christians performed proxy water baptisms for the dead, presumably sharing in the LDS interpretation of that verse?

 

[Ironhold]

Out of curiosity, did anyone go back and read the cited references for the article I linked to?

 

[Ran77]

The Fairmormon article itself specifically states-"That baptism for the dead was indeed practiced in some orthodox Christian circles is indicated by the decisions of two late fourth century councils."

The OP doesn't mention orthodox one way or another. If you are the arbitrator of what is and what is not Christian, then whatever is presented will be summarily dismissed as being not-Christian. So I am not going to bother showing how early followers of Christ believed in this practice.

For the benefit of those who are willing to approach this topic with an open mind I present the following:



1 Peter: 18-21

18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter mentions that 1) Jesus preached to the spirits in prison and 2) that baptism saves us. These are being disucssed as parts of the same topic. Why would Jesus be preaching to the spirits of the dead if there was not a way for them to be baptized? That doesn't make sense.



Zechariah 9: 11-12

11. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

12. Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;


These verses speak of a pit which has no water. They are prisoners of hope. That describes the dead. Their hope is dependant upon gaining access to water. That certainly sounds like baptism for the dead to me.

 

[Ran77]

Out of curiosity, did anyone go back and read the cited references for the article I linked to?

I did.

 

[IchoozJC]

Obscure verses are fodder for false prophets which they feed to the sheep claiming that God has revealed the true meaning to them. Its in the cult book of tricks.

"This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! "
~Ezekiel 13:3

 

[NYCGuy]

The OP doesn't mention orthodox one way or another. If you are the arbitrator of what is and what is not Christian, then whatever is presented will be summarily dismissed as being not-Christian. So I am not going to bother showing how early followers of Christ believed in this practice.

I never claimed that the OP did.

Let us be clear. After quoting me as saying, "SO, from all of this, we have yet to see that the Coptic Church was performing proxy water baptisms for the dead, let alone that this was a Christian practice (since we have so far seen references to non-Christian Marcionism, Mandaeism, and Gnosticism).", you stated, "I think we can also see the beginning of a series of arguments that simply dismiss any denomination that practiced baptism for the dead as not being Christian based on your determination of what is and what is not Christian. " From this, it seems as if you may not be familiar with the beliefs of the mentioned groups, since it has nothing to do with me being the arbitrator of who is and isn't Christian. Again, as I already quoted as an example, Mandaeism, which rejects Jesus Christ, sure does sound Christian.

Further, I was responding to the Fairmormon article given, which specifically states that baptism for the dead was practiced in some "orthodox Christian" circles, and I would like evidence of that. Marcionism, Mandaeism, and Gnosticism are not "orthodox Christian". Presumably the author was using the Coptic Orthodox Church as an example of an "orthodox Christian" circle, however he provides no evidence that they were performing proxy water baptisms for the dead.

For the benefit of those who are willing to approach this topic with an open mind I present the following:



1 Peter: 18-21

18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter mentions that 1) Jesus preached to the spirits in prison and 2) that baptism saves us. These are being disucssed as parts of the same topic. Why would Jesus be preaching to the spirits of the dead if there was not a way for them to be baptized? That doesn't make sense.

To me, this is a logical leap. It requires less of a logical leap to believe that Jesus preached to those in Prison, and released those that believed Him. Peter speaks of baptism saving us (those alive), not those in Prison (odd if he was making the connection you're making).

Zechariah 9: 11-12

11. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

12. Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;


These verses speak of a pit which has no water. They are prisoners of hope. That describes the dead. Their hope is dependant upon gaining access to water. That certainly sounds like baptism for the dead to me.

Huh? Where does it say that their hope is dependent upon gaining access to water, let alone that this is about the dead?

They were teaching baptism for the dead in the Old Testament?

I think reading this prophecy in context is much more helpful.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+9&version=KJV

But then, this is a distraction from the actual topic of my thread, which is the Christian practice of baptism for the dead. Please do not derail my thread.

 

[NYCGuy]

Out of curiosity, did anyone go back and read the cited references for the article I linked to?

I have read some of them (yes, I own Nibley's Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri book, recommended to me when I was active LDS interested in the ancient origins of the Endowment...).

What I am interested in is your response to my analysis of the quotes you gave in support, in this post that you may have missed, reproduced below for your convenience:

Let us look at the quotes given:

"One of the practices that sets the Coptic Church apart from most of the Christian world is that of proxy baptism for the dead. In order to understand the rationale for this ceremony, it is necessary to both establish its antiquity in Christianity and to discuss some of its antecedents in the ancient Egyptian religion."

-this is merely an assertion so far. Further, we must be clear about which church we're talking about. By "Coptic Church", I assume he is referring to the Coptic Orthodox Church. This fact will be very important soon.

"The monophysitic church of Egypt was not represented at these minor councils and hence did not feel bound to discontinue the practice. To my knowledge, only two Christian congregations have continued to practice proxy baptisms for the dead through the centuries. These are the Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran and the Copts of Egypt. Two modern churches–The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) and some of the Neo-Apostolic congregations of Europe–have revived the practice during the last century and a half."

-In the paragraph just before this one, he asserts that baptism for the dead was a practice in "some orthodox Christian circles". This is yet another assertion without evidence. He points to the statements of local councils at Carthage and Hippo, yet they do not claim that this was a practice being done in "some orthodox Christian circles" (indeed, various Church councils address heretical practices outside of the Church). Further, the actual statement of the council he quoted states that it is forbidden to give the Eucharist and baptism to "dead bodies"; this is not a proxy practice at all.

-Curious that he refers to the Mandaeans as a Christian congregation that continued the practice of proxy baptism for the dead. They aren't Christian at all, rejecting Jesus Christ:

Mandaeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Baptism of the souls of the dead or of their resurrected bodies is a frequent theme in the descensus stories, many of which come from Egypt. The Epistle of the Apostles, known from a complete Ethiopic version, a fragmentary fifth century Latin manuscript (now in Vienna) and a fourth or fifth century mutilated Coptic manuscript in Cairo, is an example. It places the following words in the mouth of Jesus, visiting with his apostles after the resurrection:

For to that end went I down unto the place of Lazarus, and preached unto the righteous and the prophets, that they might come out of the rest which is below and come up into that which is above; and I poured out upon them with my right hand the water [baptism, Ethiopic text] of life and forgiveness and salvation from all evil, as I have done unto you and unto them that believe on me."

-Maybe I have poor reading comprehension skills, however the above quote says nothing of a proxy water baptism rite.

"Prof. Hugh Nibley has dealt with the subject of baptism for the dead in Coptic pseudepigrapha, notably in the third century document known as Pistis Sophia. This esoteric work, describing the afterworld, notes:

They will all test that soul to find their signs in it, as well as their seals and their baptisms and their anointing. And the virgin of the Light will seal that soul, and the workers will baptize it and give it the spiritual anointing.

Nibley further notes that the document speaks of how those who remain in the place of testing, the “in-between” place (i.e., the earth) should perform the ordinances of baptism, anointing and sealing for those who died without the opportunity to receive them in this life.

Another possible reference to baptism for the dead is in the Coptic Gospel of Philip, one of the documents found at Nag Hamadi in 1945. Here, we read that those who are baptized can become the servants of others, freeing them through the work of love that they, too, may enjoy the anointing at the hands of those who have received it.

The point that Nibley repeated makes in regard to the Coptic pseudepigrapha is that it is not only related to other early Christian literature, but that it is highly dependent upon earlier Egyptian texts. Concerning baptism for the dead, for example, he gives many references to water purification in ancient Egypt, both for the living and the dead. Indeed, washing in water was essential to the resurrection from the dead in ancient Egypt, just as is baptism in the pseudepigraphal literature cited above.

Viewed in this light, one can see why the Copts, of all the early Christian churches, retained baptism for the dead. Some of the factors contributing to the ease with which they accepted this practice are as follows:"

-Here we come back to the point I brought up earlier: by "Coptic Church", we are talking about the Coptic Orthodox Church, correct? If so, I fail to see why texts such as the Gospel of Philip or Pistis Sophia have any relevance to this matter, since, as you may be aware, they are Gnostic texts. Sure, they may have originated in Egypt, and are therefore "Coptic" (meaning Egyptian), but they have nothing at all to do with the Coptic Church, which is quite obviously not Gnosticism, and certainly has never viewed such works as canonical. Oddly, Nibley then refers to Pagan Egyptian practices in reference to water purification for the living and the dead.

SO, from all of this, we have yet to see that the Coptic Church was performing proxy water baptisms for the dead, let alone that this was a Christian practice (since we have so far seen references to non-Christian Marcionism, Mandaeism, and Gnosticism).

 

[NYCGuy]

It would be very interesting if an orthodox Christian group, i.e. the Coptic Orthodox Church, was performing proxy water baptisms for the dead in the past...even compelling. However we have yet to see evidence that they were. Instead, we see references to Gnostics, those that reject Jesus Christ as the divine Son of God and Savior, groups that reject the Old Testament and the God of Israel, etc.

Now, it must be said that in the Catholic faith, we have a rich history of practices related to the salvation of the dead, including prayers and Masses for the dead. We do believe that the living can "help" the deceased in some way, and we find origin of our practices in those of ancient Judaism. We see this in 2 Maccabees (part of the Catholic/Orthodox Old Testament), where we read:

2 Maccabees 12:43-45
43 He also took up a collection from all his men, totaling about four pounds of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. Judas did this noble thing because he believed in the resurrection of the dead.

44 If he had not believed that the dead would be raised, it would have been foolish and useless to pray for them.

45 In his firm and devout conviction that all of God's faithful people would receive a wonderful reward, Judas made provision for a sin offering to set free from their sin those who had died.

 

[Ironhold]

To begin with, could you please in the future use quote tags if you intend to split apart responses? The bold-to-Italic shift you used isn't displaying properly on my monitor. Thank you.

**

It does still stand that at least three groups were known to practice it, and the concept at least was known among at least some portion of the Copts. We also have an account that suggests a similar concept was known among the Jews.

In that sense, there is a precedent, something that the OP asserted did not exist.

But from there -

Jeff Lindsay notes a number of non-Mormon Bible scholars who agree that the "clear" reading of the passage refers to vicarious baptism, with some of them admitting that this likely did indicate that individual early groups - even within mainline Christianity - likely did indeed engage in vicarious baptism.

He also quotes a work which argues that the Shepherd of Hermas, which was at one point considered canonical by different groups, argues for the point as well.