Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[VictorC]

The Sabbath was made for mankind Mark 2:27

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Which is why so many people get the point that the 4th commandment remains valid for the saints of God today.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob paraphrases Scripture when it doesn't say what he wants it to, and also shows that the Sabbath is reliant on the Mosaic covenant. This is what I have told you all along, Elder111. You were never given the Sabbath, and it didn't exist before Moses.

 

[Cribstyl]

You say the 10 commandments were given only to the children of Israel; of course the children of Israel married the Canaanites against Abraham's wishes; they had children, consequently they were a mixed multitude when they left Egypt and received the 10 commandments. The Sabbath was not only rest for the jews but also their slaves , their animals. Slaves were like Hagar, they were foreigners, strangers; animals are certainly not jews. The animals were not exempt from keeping Sabbath holy!

Ex 20
8 “Remember the day, Shabbat, to set it apart for God. 9 You have six days to labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Shabbat for Adonai your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work — not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the foreigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. 11 For in six days, Adonai made heaven and earth, the sea and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. This is why Adonai blessed the day, Shabbat, and separated it for himself.

Those who lived inside the promise land were to keep the Sabbath holy. If you seek to enter the land of promise, you should honor Sabbath; Yeshua was speaking to jews who honored Sabbath; he promised them rest. Of course, that mixed multitude received the 10 commandments while they walked by faith outside the gates of the Israel. The gates of the holy city were not built yet.

No comment.

 

[from scratch]

You say the 10 commandments were given only to the children of Israel; of course the children of Israel married the Canaanites against Abraham's wishes; they had children, consequently they were a mixed multitude when they left Egypt and received the 10 commandments. The Sabbath was not only rest for the jews but also their slaves , their animals. Slaves were like Hagar, they were foreigners, strangers; animals are certainly not jews. The animals were not exempt from keeping Sabbath holy!

Ex 20
8 “Remember the day, Shabbat, to set it apart for God. 9 You have six days to labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Shabbat for Adonai your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work — not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the foreigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. 11 For in six days, Adonai made heaven and earth, the sea and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. This is why Adonai blessed the day, Shabbat, and separated it for himself.

Those who lived inside the promise land were to keep the Sabbath holy. If you seek to enter the land of promise, you should honor Sabbath; Yeshua was speaking to jews who honored Sabbath; he promised them rest. Of course, that mixed multitude received the 10 commandments while they walked by faith outside the gates of the Israel. The gates of the holy city were not built yet.

You really don't like Moses either, do ya?

 

[BobRyan]

Did the Judaizers keep the Sabbath and want the new gentile converts to Christianity to do the same?

Did the Judaizers read the Bible and want the new converts to do the same/ well then does that prove that the Bible is evil??

Or.. maybe another flawed argument against God's Word as Christ calls the Ten Commandments in Mark 7.

Let me get this straight: Your argument is that Judaizers aren't evil unless the Bible becomes evil? .

That is a pretty wild guess.

How did you manage to stray that far from the point?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Even Bob produced evidence that proves the seventh day of the creation account wasn't a Sabbath.

Until you actually read my post.

And that is where you find that admit to the Mark 2:27 fact that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" when made --- and not "mankind made for the Sabbath" -- when made. Both were made in Gen 1-2:3.

A point that even the pro-sunday sources in the signature line below - appear to freely admit. The 4th Commandment Sabbath started in Eden - the 7th day of the actual week - for all mankind - in Eden and onward. Even they admit to this point.

 

[BobRyan]

This is what I have told you all along, Elder111. You were never given the Sabbath, and it didn't exist before Moses.

Yes you did say that.

By contrast the Bible says that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

From Sabbath to Sabbath shall "All mankind come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

And "tomorrow is the Sabbath" Exodus 16.

Not "a seventh day of your own choosing".

And not "only Jews are considered to be mankind".

I think we all knew that.

in fact even the Sunday sources in my signature line admit that the 4th Commandment 7th day Sabbath was given to mankind in Eden.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

Did the Judaizers read the Bible and want the new converts to do the same/ well then does that prove that the Bible is evil??

Or.. maybe another flawed argument against God's Word as Christ calls the Ten Commandments in Mark 7.





That is a pretty wild guess.

How did you manage to stray that far from the point?

in Christ,

Bob

Even the devil himself uses God's word. Does that make him holy and righteous?

 

[from scratch]

Until you actually read my post.

And that is where you find that admit to the Mark 2:27 fact that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" when made --- and not "mankind made for the Sabbath" -- when made. Both were made in Gen 1-2:3.

A point that even the pro-sunday sources in the signature line below - appear to freely admit. The 4th Commandment Sabbath started in Eden - the 7th day of the actual week - for all mankind - in Eden and onward. Even they admit to this point.

There is absolutely no evidence to support your supposed facts.

 

[from scratch]

Yes you did say that.

By contrast the Bible says that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

From Sabbath to Sabbath shall "All mankind come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

And "tomorrow is the Sabbath" Exodus 16.

Not "a seventh day of your own choosing".

And not "only Jews are considered to be mankind".

I think we all knew that.

in fact even the Sunday sources in my signature line admit that the 4th Commandment 7th day Sabbath was given to mankind in Eden.

in Christ,

Bob

It is true that the Sabbath was given to all mankind as you say, why did Moses say -

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


Why did Nehemiah say -

14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Why did Ezekiel say -

12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

You have Jesus calling a few collaborators liars. Oh yeah I forgot you haven't admitted those passages are in your bible yet.

 

[Elder 111]

If we're talking about Ex 20:10 why cant you present and face facts about your favorite commandment.

The command to labour six days is clearly what the children of Israel 'shall', ' will', do (present and future.)
The seventh day in this context is clearly present and future.

Exo 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

"In it" is relative to weekly seventh days to come.
There should be no question that this text is talking about weekly seventh days to come, rather than the seventh day of creation.

How ridiculous can you be? God said it was the Seventh day!
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Getting back to biblical facts.
Act 20:7. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Note the text very carefully and consider the facts that we should take into account.

1. The First day of the week at midnight would be Saturday night in our time. The days was reckoned from evening. We should therefore understand that they were together from Sabbath meeting and continued to on into Saturday night/first day of the week.
2. For certain there were no Sunday service for the next morning/Sunday Paul was on his way. 13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.

​

Strike#1. The text makes it clear that the disciples came together to break bread on the first day of the week.
Strike#2. They did NOT come together on the first day of the week for a sabbath meeting.

Strike#3. The text makes it clear that Paul preached to them on the first day of the week, not the sabbath.

Three strikes you're out.

1. Firstly to break bread also means to eat. So there is no absolute case for a church meaning on the first day of the week.
2. There were together because Paul was leaving the next morning and you are completely ignoring the fact that the day was reckoned from evening which places this midnight at Saturday night. Not good for you to admit that truth is it?
3. Try as you might this first day was what we call Saturday night and Paul was on his way Sunday morning. The purpose was not to keep a Sunday service but to say goodbye.

 

[Elder 111]

Strike #1. No approved version of the bible say that Sabbath was made for mankind. SDA have to change the truth.

Mar 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Here is why the word man implies only the children of Israel.

1. God said: I gave Sabbath to the Children of Israel as a covenant between ME and THEM.

Blaten denial of truth! I asked you where you find in the bIble "man" being made as reference to a Jew/Jews? Give it up! I see where it refers to all mankind as all others do.

 

[Elder 111]

For this comparison to have validity, you would need to demonstrate how the seventh day continued to exist - not only 2.1+ million days later, but before creation itself to match the eternal nature of the Living God. Bottom line: your comparison is invalid.

Verbal tenses have great meaning in Scripture, as Jesus demonstrated according to John 8.

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.​

Jesus revealed His pre-incarnate divinity with His revealed name, which is a verb in the present tense, contrasted with Abraham described in the past-tense.
Forcing your theology into the Bible violates the verbs Scripture uses. They have meaning, that you still can't reconcile your opinions with.

Red herring. Adam didn't have the Sabbath.

Red herring. Adam didn't have the Sabbath.
And even your appeal to the Mosaic covenant proves that he didn't.

There is no burden of proof on my part it is on your part to prove. You have stated that is means future and present only. If that is the case then in all applications it must be the same.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

Originally Posted by mmksparbud

And still this fight goes on----amazing how hard people fight to go against the written and spoken word of God! How anyone can say that the Sabbath is not the 7th day of creation week is beyond ludicrous when it is so plain! God did something on that day--, .
​

God said "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God" Ex 20:8-11 "Made for mankind" Mark 2:27 and a time when "all mankind shall come before Me to worship" Is 66 in the New Heavens and New Earth.

in Christ,

Bob
​

Even Bob produced evidence that proves the seventh day of the creation account wasn't a Sabbath.

Just not in my actual posts??

VC loves to make stuff up about what others post without actually showing that they are doing what is claimed by VC - possibly that game is played to mislead the readers?

Who knows why that keeps happening??

anyone?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Red herring. Adam didn't have the Sabbath.

Red herring. Adam didn't have the Sabbath.
And even your appeal to the Mosaic covenant proves that he didn't.

The Bible says that Adam did have the Sabbath in Ex 20:11 and Gen 2:3 - as we all know.

In fact even the pro-sunday sources listed below in my signature line - admit that they know that. How "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

 

[mercy1061]

You really don't like Moses either, do ya?

Adam rested on the sixth day, Gen 2:21-22

21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

 

[VictorC]

How ridiculous can you be? God said it was the Seventh day!
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God...

You just showed that you know how verbal tenses are used in a sentence, and show others that you've been lying all along. God didn't say the sabbath was the seventh day. That's Elder111 inserting his fiction into the account.

 

[VictorC]

Did the Judaizers read the Bible and want the new converts to do the same/ well then does that prove that the Bible is evil??

Let me get this straight: Your argument is that Judaizers aren't evil unless the Bible becomes evil? There is no relation between these disparate entities.

That is a pretty wild guess.

How did you manage to stray that far from the point?

in Christ,

Bob

Its unlikely others will miss your equation of Judaizers with the Bible -two disparate entities- in an effort to claim that a group that includes you can't be evil unless the Bible's condemnation of Judaizers is also evil.

 

[VictorC]

Bob paraphrases Scripture when it doesn't say what he wants it to, and also shows that the Sabbath is reliant on the Mosaic covenant. This is what I have told you all along, Elder111. You were never given the Sabbath, and it didn't exist before Moses.

Until you actually read my post.

And that is where you find that admit to the Mark 2:27 fact that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" when made --- and not "mankind made for the Sabbath" -- when made. Both were made in Gen 1-2:3.

A point that even the pro-sunday sources in the signature line below - appear to freely admit. The 4th Commandment Sabbath started in Eden - the 7th day of the actual week - for all mankind - in Eden and onward. Even they admit to this point.

Thanks for validating my points.
When I read your post, I found you quoting Biblical proof that the Sabbath didn't exist before Moses, as shown by both Genesis 2 and Mark 2:27. You can search the Genesis account from now until doomsday, and you will never find a periodic rest "made for man" anywhere in it. You also validated my observation that the Sabbath is reliant on the Mosaic covenant, the obvious appeal you made when directing attention to "the 4th commandment Sabbath", which didn't exist until the Mosaic covenant was Spoken into existence. You keep proving your extra-Biblical sources to be in error, concurrent with making appeals to their error to justify your own.

Note too that since the Sabbath was a perpetual covenant made with a specific group of people that excludes Adam, myself, and even you, it doesn't exist outside that covenant relationship. This point was made earlier, bumped up, and none of you offered any response to it.

 

[VictorC]

The Bible says that Adam did have the Sabbath in Ex 20:11 and Gen 2:3 - as we all know.

In fact even the pro-sunday sources listed below in my signature line - admit that they know that. How "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

A red herring argument is an appeal to a premise that is false to validate the extension of the Sabbath's jurisdiction outside the covenant it is specified by the Law to be in. And that's what claiming Adam having the Sabbath is - a red herring. Adam didn't have the Sabbath, and you already proved that to yourself in your previous post as well as from your citation from the Mosaic covenant and the Genesis account in this post.