Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[mercy1061]

Paul wasn't zealous for the Law that is why he changed his name from Saul.
Using Pharisee Shaul is IMO a typical Messianic type tactic to confuse and obfuscate things. It is akin to the poisoning the well fallacy.

Have you ever chopped off some branches and grafted them into another tree? Did you build Jacob's well? Is there any water in your well? Has your well gone dry? If it has, you may have to reach deep the gather up enough water in a jar to satisfy your thirst.

 

[Sophrosyne]

My goodness...

Let me try this again...

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in AMONG THEM and became partaker WITH THEM of the rich root of the olive tree,

WHO is the THEM in verse 17???

Believing Jews.... NOT Israel. One doesn't become a partaker of Israel if one accepts Jesus.

 

[mercy1061]

The simple thing is the saved (body of Christ) are grafted in and the unsaved (Israel as a nation) are not. One could say the tree is all of God's people but the root isn't Israel or the tree but God himself is the root of it.

Please be honest, does this answer my question? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Have you ever chopped off some branches and grafted them into another tree? Did you build Jacob's well? Is there any water in your well? Has your well gone dry? If it has, you may have to reach deep the gather up enough water in a jar to satisfy your thirst.

I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Please be honest, does this answer my question? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.

If one considers Jesus as the tree and sin our nature... makes perfect sense to me.

 

[tzadik]

Believing Jews.... NOT Israel. One doesn't become a partaker of Israel if one accepts Jesus.

THANK YOU!

Believing JEWS.

Ok so is Moses a believing Jew?
is Paul a believing Jew?
Is David a believing Jew?
is John the Baptist a believing Jew?

 

[tzadik]

I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.

23. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into THEIR own olive tree?

What does the highlighted portion of the verse mean to you?

 

[mercy1061]

If one considers Jesus as the tree and sin our nature... makes perfect sense to me.

What does the simple laws of nature mean to you? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.

 

[mercy1061]

I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.

Are you familiar how a fig tree reproduces? Fig trees grew in the garden of eden. Yeshua cursed the fig tree with only leaves; the fig tree withered and died.

 

[Sophrosyne]

THANK YOU!

Believing JEWS.

Ok so is Moses a believing Jew?
is Paul a believing Jew?
Is David a believing Jew?
is John the Baptist a believing Jew?

Is Israel a believing Jew? NO

 

[Sophrosyne]

23. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into THEIR own olive tree?

What does the highlighted portion of the verse mean to you?

Their own being the Church... and NOT Israel of course

 

[Sophrosyne]

What does the simple laws of nature mean to you? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.

I already said our nature was sin, and in Christ we are contrary to that nature.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Are you familiar how a fig tree reproduces? Fig trees grew in the garden of eden. Yeshua cursed the fig tree with only leaves; the fig tree withered and died.

Yup... and that fig tree could represent Israel which for a time ceased to exist as a nation.

 

[Elder 111]

riginally Posted by Elder 111

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!
​

Wait a minute!!! I quoted exactly what Paul said and I am perverting Paul's words?
There is perversion but look for the source again, because it is not originating with the word of God that I quoted!

I've already dealt with Romans chapter 7 and proved that you are stripping out one part OUT OF CONTEXT and the meaning of the entire chapter is being TOTALLY REJECTED by you in that effort.
Notice what Paul says AFTER your highlighted verse there " I FOUND TO BE UNTO DEATH". Are you so blind that you cannot even SEE THAT?

God would have ordained it to life, the death part is because we break it! So you have a no point. IT IS LIFE! God is not a God of death.

 

[Sophrosyne]

riginally Posted by Elder 111

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!
​

Wait a minute!!! I quoted exactly what Paul said and I am perverting Paul's words?
There is perversion but look for the source again, because it is not originating with the word of God that I quoted!
God would have ordained it to life, the death part is because we break it! So you have a no point. IT IS LIFE! God is not a God of death.

I don't see the Law bringing life at all, or those who were before it were summarily dead. The Law is death ask the guy who picked up sticks on the Sabbath how alive he was after the Law got ahold of him.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Romans 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.


Now what is the law of sin and death here?

 

[Sophrosyne]

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

 

[Elder 111]

Breaking news everyone!
Jesus who is the creator, who says that He and his Father are one. Gave His commandments that are not the same as His Father's Holy Ten commandments.
I come to do the will of "My Father will" but I don't want My Father's law. Interesting isn't it?
Sound right to you?
Oh what positions we take to defend the untenable idea that the Ten commandments are not for Christians.
The same Christian that says that God is His only God.
That says he should not steal.
That says he should not commit adultery.
That says he should not covet.
That says he should not take the name of the Lord in vain.
That says he should bow to images in worship or make them.
That says he should not lie.
Wait a minute!!!
That is the Ten commandments!!!!!
Please note he does the things of the Ten commandments but they are not applicable to him. Oh yes, he does then but he does not keep them.
Oh what a tangle web we weave!

 

[Sophrosyne]

Breaking news everyone!
Jesus who is the creator, who says that He and his Father are one. Gave His commandments that are not the same as His Father's Holy Ten commandments.=
I come to do the will of "My Father will" but I don't want My Father's law. Interesting isn't it?
Sound right to you?
Oh what positions we take to defend the untenable idea that the Ten commandments are not for Christians.
The same Christian that says that God is His only God.
That says he should not steal.
That says he should not commit adultery.
That says he should not covet.
That says he should not take the name of the Lord in vain.
That says he should bow to images in worship or make them.
That says he should not lie.
Wait a minute!!!
That is the Ten commandments!!!!!
Please note he does the things of the Ten commandments but they are not applicable to him. Oh yes, he does then but he does not keep them.
Oh what a tangle web we weave!

Same old false argument first Jesus and his Father have two separate sets of commandment in one scripture or God has a mental illness when Jesus said keep HIS commandments while HE keeps HIS FATHER's Commandments. Why did Jesus just instead say Keep my Father's commandments instead? I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation that doesn't make God into an illogical mental case.
Next we have 9 commandments here and you are saying there is Ten? Talk about lying to folks in the thread where is the Sabbath command that was LEFT OUT? I guess maybe it isn't part of the Ten you are saying eh?
Really you need to dump these arguments they only show how far you will go to make dupe folks into buying this nonsense.