Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[tzadik]

and reject the new covenant, thus salvation.

the Advocate is my salvation.

the Advocate obeyed the commandments of God and taught us to do the same.


1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2. and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5. but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6. the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

 

[tzadik]

Romans 3:31

New American Standard Bible
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Young's Literal Translation
Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

Basic English Bible
Do we, then, through faith make the law of no effect? in no way: but we make it clear that the law is important.

King James Version
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Paul, the Bible, God's Word vehemently disagree with you.
I'm sorry, but it is pretty crystal clear in the Word of God that grace through faith absolutely does NOT void the Law of God in the life of the believer. Quite the contrary. Until you see this, it'll be nothing but a broken record of "grace replaces the law"...

If you refuse to read and accept the book of Romans at least read my quotes from it and deal with those in this thread. Your intended meaning isn't what Paul says, implies, tries to sneak in the back door or means.

The verses speak for themselves. Any open and "willing to be wrong" person out there can clearly see what Paul meant with his statement...

After all, the above verses completely back up his obedient LIFE according to the Word of God.

He kept the Law of God. He joyfully concurred with the Law of God. He believed everything that was in agreement with the Law of God.

No guessing needed.

 

[Elder 111]

The new covenant is incompatible with the old covenant from Mount Sinai, as Hebrews 10:9 declares concerning what Jesus Christ did concerning the covenants: "He takes away the first that He may establish the second".

What is incompatible about it?

 

[Elder 111]

Yes, in some cases it is as one cannot serve two masters and the Law and Grace are as such. Grace makes the Holy Spirit indwelling us our master while the Law makes stone tablets the master. In Grace one can decide upon things such as holy days and diet while under the Law one either complies with what is written or one is in defiance of the Law (Lawless, Lawbreaker, Sinner).

It is obvious that you have not understood the word of God. What did Adam and Eve have when they sinned? GRACE. What did Noah find with God? GRACE Genesis 6:8. Do you really believe That Lot, Abram, Moses and the Isrealites had no GRACE? What did you think David had when he sinned? You really believe that there was no Holy Spirit indwelling in all those prophets of old? Do you realize that we have grace because we are sinners? You have missed the mark big time!

 

[Elder 111]

And others who relate the Law = Life and ignore it is a ministry of death. How can a ministry of death convey eternal life? There is a myriad of scriptures equating the Law with death that have to be blatantly and maliciously with prejudice ignored to consider such thinking.

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!

 

[Elder 111]

The Law is a ministry of death to those who do not have the Advocate!

Those who have the Advocate rejoice, delight in, meditate on, love, joyfully concur, serve and live according to the Law of God!

Amen!

 

[from scratch]

Romans 3:31 completes my argument for the Law of God;

namely that it doesn't void, go away, become useless, inapplicable once we come to faith. On the contrary.

Same message Christ taught in Luke 16:17 and Matthew 5:17-20 --the perfect, righteous, holy and spiritual Law of God will not "go away" until heaven and earth do---until then they are to be a delight to the Spiritual children of God!

Are you saying Jesus taught the law? John says no in 1:17 and taught His own commandments in 15:10. Paul says not under the law in Rom 6:14, 15; we're delivered from the law in in 7:6, throw out the law in Gal 4:30 and one has no salvation if they choose the law over grace in Gal 5:4.

While you ref LK 16:17, you ignore 24:44 which allows Heb 7:12. Your version makes Jesus a sinner in Heb 7:12. This simply can't be so.

 

[from scratch]

the Advocate is my salvation.

the Advocate obeyed the commandments of God and taught us to do the same.


1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2. and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5. but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6. the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

I personally have no problems with your quote. The problem is your idea of the quote. It violates JN 15:10
.

 

[from scratch]

The verses speak for themselves. Any open and "willing to be wrong" person out there can clearly see what Paul meant with his statement...

After all, the above verses completely back up his obedient LIFE according to the Word of God.

He kept the Law of God. He joyfully concurred with the Law of God. He believed everything that was in agreement with the Law of God.

No guessing needed.

And of course that's exactly why he said Now we are delivered form the law. and also confesses not once but 2 verses in a row we aren't under the law in 6:14, 15. Must also be why he tells Timothy the law isn't for the righteous in 1:9.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It is obvious that you have not understood the word of God. What did Adam and Eve have when they sinned? GRACE. What did Noah find with God? GRACE Genesis 6:8. Do you really believe That Lot, Abram, Moses and the Isrealites had no GRACE? What did you think David had when he sinned? You really believe that there was no Holy Spirit indwelling in all those prophets of old? Do you realize that we have grace because we are sinners? You have missed the mark big time!

I've not understood? Where are you pulling this garbage theology from?
Adam and Eve had grace? HOGWASH!!!.... they were thrown out of the garden to toil on cursed soil and have painful childbirth from that point on... some grace.... Noah didn't find grace but rather found himself ridiculed for hundreds of years to toil and build an ark his faith in God was the only reason he was saved God would have had him die also I think if he at the end decided not to get on the ark I doubt God would have suddenly stopped the rain and cancel it because of "grace".
As for David after his sin was found out the "grace" he got was his child died soon after birth and his sons turned against him later in life... some idea of grace eh?
We have grace not because we are sinners but because of Jesus and what he did and Jesus wasn't around to get on a cross in the OT when David needed grace..... so David suffered punishment for his sins as did everyone else.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!

I've read Paul..... he saw the Law is DEATH... a ministration of Death NOT life.
You continually pervert Paul's words to mean the opposite of what he means... to the point of turning Paul against himself.

 

[VictorC]

The new Testament is in opposition to the old?

The new covenant is incompatible with the old covenant from Mount Sinai, as Hebrews 10:9 declares concerning what Jesus Christ did concerning the covenants: "He takes away the first that He may establish the second".

What is incompatible about it?

You ask rhetorical questions (twice in a row) just to reject the Biblical answers. There is no 'what', for the entire former covenant is incompatible with the new covenant and the Mediator we have in it:

Hebrews 9:15
He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

Jesus doesn't mediate the old covenant. He attributed that function to Moses. If you remain under the domain of the bondwoman old covenant from Mount Sinai, you don't have a Mediator in Jesus Christ. You don't have any mediator at all. You remain outside His redemption, and you aren't His purchased possession.

 

[VictorC]

It is obvious that you have not understood the word of God. What did Adam and Eve have when they sinned? GRACE. What did Noah find with God? GRACE Genesis 6:8. Do you really believe That Lot, Abram, Moses and the Isrealites had no GRACE? What did you think David had when he sinned? You really believe that there was no Holy Spirit indwelling in all those prophets of old? Do you realize that we have grace because we are sinners? You have missed the mark big time!

You made up a fairy tale that others can see right through; None of these patriarchs had the covenant Law from Mount Sinai. Did you really think God's election exists only within His redemption from the Law that wouldn't exist for hundreds or thousands of years after these all lived?

 

[Dunbar]

I've not understood? Where are you pulling this garbage theology from?
Adam and Eve had grace? HOGWASH!!!.... they were thrown out of the garden to toil on cursed soil and have painful childbirth from that point on... some grace.... Noah didn't find grace but rather found himself ridiculed for hundreds of years to toil and build an ark his faith in God was the only reason he was saved God would have had him die also I think if he at the end decided not to get on the ark I doubt God would have suddenly stopped the rain and cancel it because of "grace".
As for David after his sin was found out the "grace" he got was his child died soon after birth and his sons turned against him later in life... some idea of grace eh?
We have grace not because we are sinners but because of Jesus and what he did and Jesus wasn't around to get on a cross in the OT when David needed grace..... so David suffered punishment for his sins as did everyone else.

So grace only exists in the new testament? What a bunch of dispenational hogwash. Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Try reading Zech. 4:7

 

[Sophrosyne]

So grace only exists in the new testament? What a bunch of dispenational hogwash. Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Try reading Zech. 4:7

I have yet to see any example of grace presented that equates to the grace in the NT here.... All I see is when people turn to God then they get grace while in the NT people get grace prior to turning to God (Jesus died while we were yet sinners) As for the lamb slain before the foundation that wasn't revealed to anyone prior to the cross happening in time, so it was rather meaningless and useless to the OT saints they couldn't be saved and were stuck until Jesus freed them after the cross.
Give me examples of grace instead of baloney theology that shows nothing related to the NT in it. Trying to tie the OT into the New Covenant isn't going to work the best the OT and the Law can do is show a precursor or shadow of things to come. If you want to follow shadows instead of the real life thing go for it I'll stick to the New Covenant instead of being stuck under the ministry of death hoping I don't mess up and get stoned by someone zealous for God.

 

[Cribstyl]

The Law is a ministry of death to those who do not have the Advocate!

Those who have the Advocate rejoice, delight in, meditate on, love, joyfully concur, serve and live according to the Law of God!

Does having an advocate mean that the law is not the ministry of death?

No!!! The ministry of death is the law to everybody, even to the Advocate.
2Co 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


It seems clear that having an advocate does not mean the law is not a ministry of death.

 

[Elder 111]

Are you saying Jesus taught the law? John says no in 1:17 and taught His own commandments in 15:10. Paul says not under the law in Rom 6:14, 15; we're delivered from the law in in 7:6, throw out the law in Gal 4:30 and one has no salvation if they choose the law over grace in Gal 5:4.

John 1:17 DOES NOT say that of Jesus. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. How does that say that Jesus did not teach the law? How does that compare with the fact that Jesus said He did not come to change the law?
How does Jesus teach His own commandments? Is His commandments different from that of His Father's? You would hold that view after Jesus Himself said that He and His Father are one? After Jesus said that if you see Him you see the Father? The point is that the Holy Spirit, the son and the Father work under the same principles so how can Jesus now have different rules than that of the father? Even Paul confirms the oneness of operation.
Cor. 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Did the Father contradict His own Commandments as Jesus did all that He did in His father will? John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
The law says that we should have no other God! Are you saying that according to Paul we are deliver from that law? Did not Paul say Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31. How can Paul mean that there is no law for us and yet say that we establish the law? Would it not make sense to understand Paul as meaning that we are not under the condemnation of the law because we have Christ our salvation?
Is it matter of choosing law over grace? Or having grace to Worship God alone? Grace to love your neighbour as yourself.

While you ref LK 16:17, you ignore 24:44 which allows Heb 7:12. Your version makes Jesus a sinner in Heb 7:12. This simply can't be so.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. This have nothing to do with the Ten commandments. Heb. 8: Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Paul makes it clear that he was talking about the priesthood. That Christ was not a Levi.


13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

 

[Elder 111]

I've not understood? Where are you pulling this garbage theology from?
Adam and Eve had grace? HOGWASH!!!.... they were thrown out of the garden to toil on cursed soil and have painful childbirth from that point on... some grace.... Noah didn't find grace but rather found himself ridiculed for hundreds of years to toil and build an ark his faith in God was the only reason he was saved God would have had him die also I think if he at the end decided not to get on the ark I doubt God would have suddenly stopped the rain and cancel it because of "grace".
As for David after his sin was found out the "grace" he got was his child died soon after birth and his sons turned against him later in life... some idea of grace eh?
We have grace not because we are sinners but because of Jesus and what he did and Jesus wasn't around to get on a cross in the OT when David needed grace..... so David suffered punishment for his sins as did everyone else.

Gen 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Grace prevented Adam and Eve from dying that day. Eternal death was theirs from that moment.
Grace prevented David's death at the time of His actions.
The bible said Noah found Grace. Genesis 6:8 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
You want to try again or reject God word?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!
​

I've read Paul..... he saw the Law is DEATH... a ministration of Death NOT life.
You continually pervert Paul's words to mean the opposite of what he means... to the point of turning Paul against himself.

Wait a minute!!! I quoted exactly what Paul said and I am perverting Paul's words?
There is perversion but look for the source again, because it is not originating with the word of God that I quoted!

 

[Elder 111]

You ask rhetorical questions (twice in a row) just to reject the Biblical answers. There is no 'what', for the entire former covenant is incompatible with the new covenant and the Mediator we have in it:

Hebrews 9:15
He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

Jesus doesn't mediate the old covenant. He attributed that function to Moses. If you remain under the domain of the bondwoman old covenant from Mount Sinai, you don't have a Mediator in Jesus Christ. You don't have any mediator at all. You remain outside His redemption, and you aren't His purchased possession.

So who died for us? Jesus died for the sins under the first Covenant it looks like. For those who broke the ten Commandments. We don't have no Ten commandments according to you.