How are we to explain these "miracles?"

[Heissonear]

Why do you go to such great lengths to avoid my very simple question?

How do you determine what is a miracle and what is not?

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You ploy too much!

You already have the answer. It is when Spiritual, Supernatural Power Rules over the natural realm processes.

A "Creative" based Miracle would be the child's deformed arm lengthening and become whole and normal: the fact that cells and other body materials had to be Created spontaneously.

A "Situational" based Miracle would be the man hearing God while in a house of a drowning child and hearing God say run to the end of the dock and jump in only to find right before him the little child underwater to rescue her. This man heard from the Holy Spirit to know what to do, an obvious demonstration of God working in a man (hearing God) to rule over a natural situation.

Miracles are when God steps in and makes things happen in the physical world. Attesting Miracles are typically "Creative" based Supernatural events, like a deformed arm becoming normal and water turned to wine.

If you do not believe in them that is your right.

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[TLK Valentine]

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You ploy too much!

You already have the answer. It is when Spiritual, Supernatural Power Rules over the natural realm processes.

So when Randal McCloy Jr. survived the Sago Mine disaster after 12 of his co-workers died... miracle, or not?

A "Creative" based Miracle would be the child's deformed arm lengthening and become whole and normal: the fact that cells and other body materials had to be Created spontaneously.

A "Situational" based Miracle would be the man hearing God while in a house of a drowning child and hearing God say run to the end of the dock and jump in only to find right before him the little child underwater to rescue her. This man heard from the Holy Spirit to know what to do, an obvious demonstration of God working in a man (hearing God) to rule over a natural situation.

Are those the only kinds?

 

[Kylie]

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You ploy too much!

You already have the answer. It is when Spiritual, Supernatural Power Rules over the natural realm processes.

And how do you know when this has happened? How do you determine whether an event is due to some supernatural power or due to some natural phenomenon that you just don't understand?

 

[Heissonear]

So when Randal McCloy Jr. survived the Sago Mine disaster after 12 of his co-workers died... miracle, or not?

Are those the only kinds?

I'm not up to speed on the Sago Mine incident, but most likely commonly known natural processes led to the event occurring, at which time if their was a lone survivor God could have had something to do with it. But without more details I'm not sure, but do know of cases where in like circumstances God "spares" some and not others, which only He knows why at the time, and for us to find out at a later time.

As far as domain of Miracles, they have no bounds, God is allowing all natural, soulish, and spiritual evil and good to be manifested in this Creation, one of the purposes He has had for bringing about this "temporal realm" - a realm to teach and demonstrate deeds of Darkness and deeds of Light in manifold ways for those already in, or will be in, the Eternal Realm. You may remember in the Bible how there are also false signs and wonders, in order to deceive. There will be many Miracles where a person cannot tell the difference if they are from God or Satan unless they know God, and are led by His Spirit. Matthew 7, Matthew 24, Revelations, and other places discuss this, and some context of intent. I have found it is far better to have His Spirit and ability to "discern miraculous events" than to know the list of types of Miracles.

Miracles from and by God are happening every day! There are A to Z reasons why. And as mentioned before, He is selective in who gets in on them and what circumstances they have. If He wanted to "reveal Himself" to the masses He would have done so many times throughout history.
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[Heissonear]

And how do you know when this has happened? How do you determine whether an event is due to some supernatural power or due to some natural phenomenon that you just don't understand?

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It is simple, when you encounter the "Supernatural" you will know it clearly and distinctly. You will meet Higher Power. It will be distinctly obvious it is not natural.

It is good to be skeptical but you do not know what to be skeptical of and the skepticism you exhibit right now may mostly be thoughts based on doubts of "Supernatural" existing. If a person does not think, in a normal rational way, that Higher Powers beyond the natural realm exist then they will doubt there may be a difference, if any, for all throughout life they have learned and experienced the natural world in its manifold and wondrous exhibitions.

But to add on "Super", and I capitalize with purpose of transferring emphasis by how we can by words, the natural becomes Superseeded big time. When you have your first opportunity to meet an Eternal Being, in their Radiance", the Power Giving Them Life up and beyond the natural we are in, you will be full of amazement and will then firsthand understand the distinctiveness in Power displayed before you, a person on earth. If you get to "see a part" of the Power from the Heavenly Realm you will know its "substance" is beyond this earthly domain.

Again, I understand your wondering if their is more to this natural realm, more in what we have yet to have learn and see, but an experience with the Supernatural will give you the clarity to wish to know.



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[TLK Valentine]

I'm not up to speed on the Sago Mine incident, but most likely commonly known natural processes led to the event occurring, at which time if their was a lone survivor God could have had something to do with it. But without more details I'm not sure, but do know of cases where in like circumstances God "spares" some and not others, which only He knows why at the time, and for us to find out at a later time.

As far as domain of Miracles, they have no bounds, God is allowing all natural, soulish, and spiritual evil and good to be manifested in this Creation, one of the purposes He has had for bringing about this "temporal realm" - a realm to teach and demonstrate deeds of Darkness and deeds of Light in manifold ways for those already in, or will be in, the Eternal Realm. You may remember in the Bible how there are also false signs and wonders, in order to deceive. There will be many Miracles where a person cannot tell the difference if they are from God or Satan unless they know God, and are led by His Spirit. Matthew 7, Matthew 24, Revelations, and other places discuss this, and some context of intent. I have found it is far better to have His Spirit and ability to "discern miraculous events" than to know the list of types of Miracles.

Miracles from and by God are happening every day! There are A to Z reasons why. And as mentioned before, He is selective in who gets in on them and what circumstances they have. If He wanted to "reveal Himself" to the masses He would have done so many times throughout history.
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A simple "I don't know" will suffice.

The details of the Sago Mine incident are readily available form many sources, including Wikipedia, so there's really no excuse for not being up to speed. You can certainly find a lot more information -- names, dates, places, etc., about it, than about the anecdotes you've shared... anecdotes you had no difficulty verifying as "official" miracles.

What makes this one so difficult to call? 12 people died -- 13 people could've died; Miracle, or coincidence?

 

[AV1611VET]

What makes this one so difficult to call? 12 people died -- 13 people could've died; Miracle, or coincidence?

Esther 4:14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Esther 4:14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?

As I told Heiss: A simple "I don't know" will suffice.

 

[AV1611VET]

As I told Heiss: A simple "I don't know" will suffice.

"I don't know" doesn't educate one on the possibility that one could have been saved miraculously because one has a function to perform before one dies.

 

[Heissonear]

As I told Heiss: A simple "I don't know" will suffice.

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I need more info for this case. Many things are not clear to be definitive. If like AV mentioned applies I will lack info for quite a while: what He intended are not always revealed in this life to those not involved or selected.

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[PsychoSarah]

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I need more info for this case. Many things are not clear to be definitive. If like AV mentioned applies I will lack info for quite a while: what He intended are not always revealed in this life to those not involved or selected.

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Then don't prance around online ruining god's apparent intent not to show itself to everyone.

 

[TLK Valentine]

"I don't know" doesn't educate one on the possibility that one could have been saved miraculously because one has a function to perform before one dies.

At best, that helps us determine why a miracle has occurred -- I'm still looking for an answer (which you Internet Theologians can't seem to provide) for how to determine IF a miracle has occurred.

 

[TLK Valentine]

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I need more info for this case. Many things are not clear to be definitive. If like AV mentioned applies I will lack info for quite a while: what He intended are not always revealed in this life to those not involved or selected.

.

And yet you were so certain that the previous anecdotes were "miracles" based on a lot less info...

 

[Neogaia777]

Either your going to believe in miracles or your not, I personally do...

But why does not God prevent "all" tradgedies from happening? He does prevent some in some cases and not in others...? Why, you ask?

First off, God has a very different perspective on death than we do, he might allow someone to be killed at an early age, for example, so that they might "return to him" still in a pure, unblemished state, or maybe just because he has a different perspective on death, as he sees it as leaving a sinful, ugly, hurtful and hateful dying world, and just as a "returning to him", which is not that big a deal, from his perspective, he might even see it as putting an end to their suffering and taking them to a peaceful, blissful existence with him...

God might allow a tradgedy in this world to happen for any number of reasons, reasons that I am sure is part of his "larger picture" bigger plan... I know part of that plan is bring humankind down low, to eliminate their pride and arrogance and large, inflated ego's, and get to a place where all of humankind admits, they cannot govern themselves, and need to make all humankind lowly and humble, in order to be prepared like a table for the Heavenly one, for them to allow him to rule, willingly, to "cast their crowns" at his feet as it were, and this may take the allowing by God of many tragic occurrences in this for this to happen...

This period of time in which God is going to allow this to happen is known as the great tribulation, those who die, before this time begins occurring, are getting a "blessing in disguise, as they are only going to God, and will not have to suffer through the great tribulation period, but this point, this period of time (and this is what I know) is meant to bring humankind low, and admit, they cannot govern themselves and are in need of a heavenly king (J.C.) to rule earth...

Those are my thoughts anyways, all tradgedy and suffering that God allows, (for he does prevent some, yet not all) But we human beings either want to say since God does not prevent all tradgedy or suffering, he is bad, rather than mentioning the fact that he does step in and prevent some, and he is therefore good, even if he does not prevent it "all") But anyways, it is my belief that the suffering and tradgedy that he does allow he is working in/out for the part of his "bigger plan"

Anyways, those are my thoughts,

God Bless!

 

[Heissonear]

And yet you were so certain that the previous anecdotes were "miracles" based on a lot less info...

.

You are assimilating "why there are Miracles", "if it was a Miracle", "what is a Miracle", "what are the types of Miracles". It is a good path to walk. I hope you meet the Miracle Maker!

Being born of His Spirit is a Miracle and changes so many things! They finally get to see the other Domain, and it's Dynamics.

"That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". John 3:6

"Unless one is born again (from above), he cannot see the Kingdom of God". John 3:3

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[Kylie]

It is simple, when you encounter the "Supernatural" you will know it clearly and distinctly. You will meet Higher Power. It will be distinctly obvious it is not natural.

So you can provide no testing process, no unique characteristics. Just, "When you see it, you'll know."

You do realise that this doesn't work, right? If someone from 300 years ago heard my husband's voice coming from my phone, they'd think it is supernatural. So you're going to need to give me something better to go on than the nothing you;ve provided so far.

It is good to be skeptical but you do not know what to be skeptical of and the skepticism you exhibit right now may mostly be thoughts based on doubts of "Supernatural" existing. If a person does not think, in a normal rational way, that Higher Powers beyond the natural realm exist then they will doubt there may be a difference, if any, for all throughout life they have learned and experienced the natural world in its manifold and wondrous exhibitions.

Translation: Be skeptical, but don't be skeptical of what I believe, because I'm not skeptical and I believe it is true, therefore it is true and you have no need to be skeptical of it.

But to add on "Super", and I capitalize with purpose of transferring emphasis by how we can by words, the natural becomes Superseeded big time. When you have your first opportunity to meet an Eternal Being, in their Radiance", the Power Giving Them Life up and beyond the natural we are in, you will be full of amazement and will then firsthand understand the distinctiveness in Power displayed before you, a person on earth. If you get to "see a part" of the Power from the Heavenly Realm you will know its "substance" is beyond this earthly domain.

If it's real, then I can see it before I believe.

Again, I understand your wondering if their is more to this natural realm, more in what we have yet to have learn and see, but an experience with the Supernatural will give you the clarity to wish to know.

Then it's welcome to show me. Been more than three decades and I got nothing so far.

 

[Kylie]

"I don't know" doesn't educate one on the possibility that one could have been saved miraculously because one has a function to perform before one dies.

But saying "I don't know" encourages people to go and find out about reality and... Oh, I forgot. Reality can take a hike, because apparently you don't actually care about reality.

 

[TLK Valentine]

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You are assimilating "why there are Miracles", "if it was a Miracle", "what is a Miracle", "what are the types of Miracles". It is a good path to walk. I hope you meet the Miracle Maker!

I never asked "why are there miracles?" or "what are the types of miracles?" or even "what is a miracle?"

My question, my ONLY question, which you have avoided like the plague, is and remains:

"How does one determine if __________ is a miracle or not?"

 

[stevevw]

But saying "I don't know" encourages people to go and find out about reality and... Oh, I forgot. Reality can take a hike, because apparently you don't actually care about reality.

But then what is reality.
Quantum Reality

Modern physicists do not have a single picture of "the way the world really is;" instead there are eight ideas of "quantum reality." These eight views of reality are quite different; yet all are considered by leading scientists to be valid, or a least successful in terms of explaining experiments.

Worldviews of Prominent Physicists and Philosophers

• There is no deep reality.
• Reality is created by observation.
• Reality is an undivided wholeness.
• Reality consists of a steadily increasing number of parallel universes.
• The world obeys a non-human kind of reasoning.
• The world is made of ordinary objects.
• Consciousness creates reality.
• The world is twofold, consisting of potentials and actualities

Scientists will admit that quantum theories do not correspond to "common sense"---meaning, the law of cause and effect. The principal features of quantum theory contradict "cause and effect" relationships by assuming that random, spontaneous events can and do occur within a quantified limit (specified by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).
The majority of leading modern physicists seriously believe the first view; "There is no deep reality" and claim that there is no objective reality. For them, "physics is not physical, but metaphysical."
Common Sense Science | Quantum Reality

 

[Michael]

But then what is reality.
Quantum Reality

Modern physicists do not have a single picture of "the way the world really is;" instead there are eight ideas of "quantum reality." These eight views of reality are quite different; yet all are considered by leading scientists to be valid, or a least successful in terms of explaining experiments.

Worldviews of Prominent Physicists and Philosophers

• There is no deep reality.
• Reality is created by observation.
• Reality is an undivided wholeness.
• Reality consists of a steadily increasing number of parallel universes.
• The world obeys a non-human kind of reasoning.
• The world is made of ordinary objects.
• Consciousness creates reality.
• The world is twofold, consisting of potentials and actualities

Scientists will admit that quantum theories do not correspond to "common sense"---meaning, the law of cause and effect. The principal features of quantum theory contradict "cause and effect" relationships by assuming that random, spontaneous events can and do occur within a quantified limit (specified by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).
The majority of leading modern physicists seriously believe the first view; "There is no deep reality" and claim that there is no objective reality. For them, "physics is not physical, but metaphysical."
Common Sense Science | Quantum Reality

De Broglie–Bohm theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Keep in mind that there are entirely 'determinist' views of QM, they are simply far less 'popular' than the "standard" version.