Microchips and Mark of the Beast

[timewerx]

There we people making clothes and jewelry.

Arts and crafts were clearly tolerated in the Old Testament and so does sacrificing animals, stoning people to death, pursuit of worldly riches...

But Jesus wasn't even amused even by a bit of the fine craftsmanship of the 2nd Jewish Temple when the Jews showed and told Him how wonderful the building is.

Cheap clothes are bare necessities but expensive ones and Jewelry are not.

Let us not be hypocrites. If we stopped doing things from the Old Testament, why not also quit the ones that appealed to our vanity?? Because it appealed to our vanity? And our love for things? (1 John 2:15)

 

[parousia70]

Stars are not pentagrams.

Pentagram - noun

a star-shaped figure

You are officially Splitting hairs.

But Ok, I'll acquiesce the point.

Not all Stars are pentagrams, however ALL pentagrams are "star shaped"

so?

 

[timewerx]

Yep.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

We are to love what God Loves

I think the "world" in John 3:16 means people in context.

Else, 1 John 2:15 would be contradiction:

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

 

[parousia70]

I think the "world" in John 3:16 means people in context.

Else, 1 John 2:15 would be contradiction:

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

In context, The World in 1 John 2 can not be physical creation, for it was at that time "passing away" (1 John 2:17) for it was then "The Last Hour" (1 John 2:18)

That was 2000 years ago and physical creation is still pumping along just fine, and whatever it was "the last hour" of, must have already come and gone, for no amount of spiritualizing and stretching of the text can one, with any credibility, assert that "the last hour" of "the Last Days" lasts 2000+ years and counting...

 

[parousia70]

And what of this apparent contradiction from the same passage?

(1 John 2:9-11)

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

(Luke 14:26)
Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.


Which is it?
Hate your brother or don't hate your Brother?

 

[parousia70]

I have heard many people discuss the concept of a microchip in the hand being the mark of the beast.

I guess I'm just wondering, why has it been assumed that the mark of the beast is going to be a microchip? When I think mark of the beast, I think of something like a barcode tattoo on the wrist/forehead, or a branding type mark. What are your thoughts? Why microchip?

There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.

The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1). (NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant. I propose that Bill Gates is working on the "Mark-of-God chip implant" for the 144,000. )


John didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:

Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.

Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as a some computer product.

 

[A New Dawn]

You are officially Splitting hairs.

But Ok, I'll acquiesce the point.

Not all Stars are pentagrams, however ALL pentagrams are "star shaped"

so?

The star is a universal symbol used by a lot of people, groups, etc. The pentagram is the only "star-shaped" symbol used by the occult. Thus you can't lump all stars together as being "evil" or "pagan" or "insert undesirable name here". This is the problem as I said earlier. People don't look beyond the surface of things. The see a pentagram, or in your case, a star, and insert their own meaning into mix instead of looking deeper to see why that symbol was chosen. And, in this case, you inserted pentagram for the star on the republican symbol, not just adding your own interpretation just changing what was really there to get to your own interpretation. It's disingenuous at best.

 

[A New Dawn]

In context, The World in 1 John 2 can not be physical creation, for it was at that time "passing away" (1 John 2:17) for it was then "The Last Hour" (1 John 2:18)

That was 2000 years ago and physical creation is still pumping along just fine, and whatever it was "the last hour" of, must have already come and gone, for no amount of spiritualizing and stretching of the text can one, with any credibility, assert that "the last hour" of "the Last Days" lasts 2000+ years and counting...

John lived with the belief that he was living in the last days as have all Christians throughout history. As should we. This is because the return of Jesus is imminent. That means that no more prophecies have to be fulfilled before He returns. John was just stating that every hour between the time Jesus ascended and the time he returns is "the last hour". So when John said that the world was passing away, that is what he meant. The world will not be saved, only those who have been saved by Christ. A new earth has been promised to those who believe. We are all strangers and pilgrims on this earth. We look forward to a heavenly realm.

 

[parousia70]

John lived with the belief that he was living in the last days as have all Christians throughout history. As should we. This is because the return of Jesus is imminent. That means that no more prophecies have to be fulfilled before He returns.

Your definition of Imminent is incorrect.

im·mi·nent
ˈimənənt/Submit
adjective
1.
about to happen.
"they were in imminent danger of being swept away"
synonyms: impending, close (at hand), near, (fast) approaching, coming, forthcoming, on the way, in the offing, in the pipeline, on the horizon, in the air, just around the corner, coming down the pike, expected, anticipated, brewing, looming,

The same event can not be imminent for multiple generations.

The timing of the return of Jesus is FIXED... it is not a moving target. It was FIXED before the foundation of the world to come to pass at a pre ordained time.

If it has yet to happen, then it was NOT imminent 2000 years ago. it was the opposite of imminent.

John was just stating that every hour between the time Jesus ascended and the time he returns is "the last hour".

Which would make the term "it is the last hour" absolutely meaningless.

 

[A New Dawn]

Which would make the term "it is the last hour" absolutely meaningless.

Not if he was speaking a spiritual truth.

 

[NannaNae]

And what of this apparent contradiction from the same passage?

(1 John 2:9-11)

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

(Luke 14:26)
Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.


Which is it?
Hate your brother or don't hate your Brother?

wait you can't figure it out?
you like to get confused maybe?


dude you have to read it in context.

one is about "Light" !
Subject is LIGHT... this is usually always a reference to the more spiritual side of reality.

 

[parousia70]

The "light" in 1 John 2:9 and the "Me" in Luke 14:26 are the same thing: Christ

 

[parousia70]

Not if he was speaking a spiritual truth.

Absolutely if he was speaking a spiritual truth.



The Imminence was for the first receivers, not us.

 

[A New Dawn]

Absolutely if he was speaking a spiritual truth.



The Imminence was for the first receivers, not us.

It is for us all who are believers.

 

[parousia70]

It is for us all who are believers.

Impossible, since all generations of believers prior to ours have all died without it coming to pass. (according to you anyway....)

IF we are still waiting for that event to come to pass, it was in fact NOT imminent for believers in the 1st -19th centuries.

 

[A New Dawn]

Impossible, since all generations of believers prior to ours have all died without it coming to pass. (according to you anyway....)

IF we are still waiting for that event to come to pass, it was in fact NOT imminent for believers in the 1st -19th centuries.

It was imminent because there were no more prophecies that needed to be fulfilled.

 

[parousia70]

It was imminent because there were no more prophecies that needed to be fulfilled.

Which circles us back to the fact that you are using an incorrect definition of imminent.

But lets take this theory of yours for a little walk anyway shall we?.....

What do you say was the last prophesy that needed to be fulfilled (and was) before it could come to pass "imminently"?

 

[southcountry]

The end is near in terms of the age of Gods creation. This whole thing is being played out in front of the throne, and the time of the universe rolling up like a scroll is close. We are on the other end of the time line now.

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Jesus knew this is going to happen, thats why he said this:

Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And why Peter said this :

2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

But they were ignorant of scripture, much like people today, they can not look any farther than the world in front of them. We are just one step better than saying the world is flat.



Its quite simple, really, but a majority is in the dark for some strange reason. Perhaps blinded by shortsightedness?

 

[parousia70]

This whole thing is being played out in front of the throne, and the time of the universe rolling up like a scroll is close. We are on the other end of the time line now.

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

The above verse was fulfilled when God Judged Edom in the 500's BC
This is apocalyptic language describing the fall of a nation.
See Obadiah Ch 1

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And this is the Apostle John using the same apocalyptic language used by Isaiah, this time describing the AD70 Fall of Jerusalem.

Jesus knew this is going to happen, thats why he said this:

Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Again, fulfilled in AD70

And why Peter said this :

2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Again, AD70.
The "elements" (grk Stoicheion) = basic principles of Biblical Judaism
See: Galatians 4:3; Galatians 4:9 Colossians 2:8; Colossians 2:20 Hebrews 5:12

Those "basic Principles and rudimentary elements of Judaism" did indeed melt with fervent heat in 70AD

Its quite simple, really, but a majority is in the dark for some strange reason.

On that point, we agree.