Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[VictorC]

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
These look like they are from the ten commandments agreed?

Yup!
And this quote from Romans 2 appears to describe those who are lost, Jew and Gentile alike. The narrative continues to provide the solution later on.
But you don't have the solution; you're promoting the condition of the lost.

I know God separated the ten commandments from the other laws.

No, you don't. You've already shown that you haven't the slightest idea what the Ten Commandments was.

He spoke and wrote them Himself.

He Spoke the other Law's conveyed by Moses, with equal authority.
With one notable exception....
The greatest commandment in the whole Law was spoken by Moses (Deuteronomy 6:5), and there is no record of God speaking it.

He would not even let Moses rewrite them after Moses broke them. God was VERY VERY VERY particular when it came to the Ten Commandments.

And yet Moses quotes the covenant from Mount Sinai in Deuteronomy 5, which is probably the written record instead of the Oral declaration given in Exodus 20. The difference showing the reason the Sabbath was ordained was already shown to you. The Sabbath doesn't include you as a recipient.

There were separated from the other laws and placed under His throne/mercy seat in the ark of the Sanctuary.

And it was the Book of the Law read every seven years as a witness against Israel. It was the Book of the Law the king had to copy for himself. It was the Book of the Law we read the Ten Commandments from. The tablets of stone with the covenant were placed inside the ark of the covenant, and you would have to dispense with the Mercy Seat to get to it. Hello? Anyone home?

Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep the ten commandments if he wanted to be saved.

Yup.
That's what he would have to do according to the tenets of the old covenant, which was in effect at the time Jesus spoke to that idiotic ruler.
Which doesn't include you, by the way.

Rev. 12:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God.
Rev 22:
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[/B

Apparently you think this passage is supposed to help your cause.
It doesn't.
This same inspired author documented the commandments of God in his first epistle, and they don't include the Ten Commandments.

Face the truth: Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, and not the first covenant He fulfilled. You're living in the past grovelling before the old covenant never conveyed to you as a Gentile in Barbados.

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

 

[VictorC]

There won't be any SDA Astronauts for sure.

But why not? After all, SDA theology posits the necessity of a Seleucid ruler taking his army into outer space and subjecting heaven to military occupation. That's what their abuse of Daniel 8 leads one to conclude.

On second thought...
...I see what you mean. Leave brain surgery, astrophysics, and rock-n-roll to Buckaroo Banzai. SDA need not apply.

 

[LarryP2]

But why not? After all, SDA theology posits the necessity of a Seleucid ruler taking his army into outer space and subjecting heaven to military occupation. That's what their abuse of Daniel 8 leads one to conclude.

On second thought...
...I see what you mean. Leave brain surgery, astrophysics, and rock-n-roll to Buckaroo Banzai. SDA need not apply.

Hey, what if I told you the highpoint of my week as a kid was watching Buckaroo Banzai?

 

[VictorC]

Please point out ANYWHERE in that chapter in Romans where either the Ten Commandments OR the Sabbath is mentioned.

You won't find the quote "You shall not covet" presented in Romans 7:7 ANYWHERE ELSE in the Law beyond Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21, where the Ten Commandments are recorded. That quote identified the Law we have been delivered from, that held us (not you, a Gentile) in the past tense.

This has been shown to you at least a dozen times! You aren't participating on a discussion forum with any intent to learn anything, are you?

 

[VictorC]

Hey, what if I told you the highpoint of my week as a kid was watching Buckaroo Banzai?

Hmmmm. I think the Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai across the Eighth Dimension (starring Peter Weller, John Lithrow, and others) came out in 1984.
Where did all the time go?
They promised us a sequel. It never came. That worthless flick belongs in everyone's collection!
Keep an eye out for red Lectroids, pure evil from the eighth dimension!!!

 

[Sophrosyne]

But why not? After all, SDA theology posits the necessity of a Seleucid ruler taking his army into outer space and subjecting heaven to military occupation. That's what their abuse of Daniel 8 leads one to conclude.

On second thought...
...I see what you mean. Leave brain surgery, astrophysics, and rock-n-roll to Buckaroo Banzai. SDA need not apply.

Actually to keep the Sabbath properly they would have to turn off all power to their spacecraft for a day..... ooops

 

[Sophrosyne]

Hey, what if I told you the highpoint of my week as a kid was watching Buckaroo Banzai?

I have that movie

 

[VictorC]

Actually to keep the Sabbath properly they would have to turn off all power to their spacecraft for a day..... ooops

Silly boy - Kicks are for Trids! Everyone knows the Seleucid Empires weren't keeping the Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

Hmmmm. I think the Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai across the Eighth Dimension (starring Peter Weller, John Lithrow, and others) came out in 1984. That dates your childhood You're younger than me.
They promised us a sequel. It never came. That worthless flick belongs in everyone's collection!
Keep an eye out for red Lectroids, pure evil from the eighth dimension!!!

What if I made the embarrassing disclosure that I wasn't necessarily any spring chicken when I watched Buckaroo Banzai, and instead, watched it as a larval adult, in a "guilty-pleasure" sort of way? And represented myself "as a kid" in order to dodge the implication of........

Forget it.

 

[VictorC]

What if I made the embarrassing disclosure that I wasn't necessarily any spring chicken when I watched Buckaroo Banzai, and instead, watched it as a larval adult, in a "guilty-pleasure" sort of way? And represented myself "as a kid" in order to dodge the implication of........

Forget it.

Why is that watermelon there?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Silly boy - Kicks are for Trids! Everyone knows the Seleucid Empires weren't keeping the Sabbath.

Yup... and how do you decide which time zone to account for while orbiting earth. If you go (properly) by the sun then on the 7th orbit do you have to keep a sabbath or not? If you are not orbiting then you could be stuck in a position either you have no sunup/sundown to go by.

 

[orangeness365]

Question. one day your parents instructs you to cross the road only when to have made sure the road is clear by looking in both direction first. Another day they tell you run across the raod when crossing and not walk. Would you believe that because they did not repeat the previous instructions that you were not obligated to do them? Or that it would be safe not to?

I'm just pointing out that the New Testament says to honor your parents. Whether you have a beef with it or not is a different matter.

 

[SAAN]

I'm just pointing out that the New Testament says to honor your parents. Whether you have a beef with it or not is a different matter.

Sadly, many on here say its the Noahide commands we are to follow and the 10C's dont apply to Christians.

 

[LarryP2]

Sadly, many on here say its the Noahide commands we are to follow and the 10C's dont apply to Christians.

Sadly, many on here who want the Ten Commandments to apply to Christians wish to completely disregard the other mandatory 603 Commandments of the Mosaic covenant. And it is really sad that all of the Apostles thought the 613 commandments were an indivisible unit of law, yet many people wish to disregard that understanding and disregard the severe penalties that were enforced on Gentiles who tried to keep the Mosaic Law, especially the Sabbath. And sadly, Sabbatarians continue to viciously and dishonestly smear Christians who reject the entire Old Testament Law by accusing them of lusting after murder, adultery, theft and lying when they know good and well those things were prohibited by the Noahide Commandments several hundred years before Sinai.

Sadly, many others on here either cannot read, or refuse to read - even when they are carefully spelled out for them in explicit detail -

Ephesians 6:2:"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."

Colossians 3:20: "Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord."

1 Peter 1:1: "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance"

Matthew 15:4: "For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,"

Which all explicitly reaffirm the commandment to Honor your parents, without binding Christians to all 613 of the Old Testament Commandments. Which sadly, is totally consistent with Paul's repeated forthright refusal to bind Gentile Christians to the Mosaic Law, and the Council of Jerusalem's decision found in Acts 15.

Sadly, the Salvation by Sabbath Keeping contingent truly does not accept that the New Testament has its own criteria that is radically different than the Mosaic legal system that was abandoned at the Cross. And sadly, the emphasis in imposing the Ten Commandments on Christians is based on the recognition that Christians were never commanded to keep the Sabbath in the New Testament. Sadly, the Sabbath Keeping contingent won't admit their real desire to yoke Christians with Sabbath Keeping is actually their real motive for their fixation on the Ten Commandments.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Sadly, many on here who want the Ten Commandments to apply to Christians wish to completely disregard the other mandatory 603 Commandments of the Mosaic covenant. And it is really sad that all of the Apostles thought the 613 commandments were an indivisible unit of law, yet many people wish to disregard that understanding.

Sadly, many others on here either cannot read, or refuse to read - even when they are carefully spelled out for them in explicit detail -

Ephesians 6:2:"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."

Colossians 3:20: "Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord."

1 Peter 1:1: "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignoranc"

Matthew 15:4: "For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,"

Which all explicitly reaffirm the commandment to Honor your parents, without binding Christians to all 613 of the Old Testament Commandments.

Sadly, the Salvation by Sabbath Keeping contingent truly does not accept that the New Testament has its own criteria that is radically different than the Mosaic legal system that was abandoned at the Cross.

Sadly you can find 9 of the 10 commandments specifically reiterated throughout the New Testament in one way or another but the Sabbath Commandment is absolutely forgotten.... unmentioned like vaporware.
We have an invisible commandment missing from the 10 commandments which leads me to think that Christians are only applicable to 9 Commandments because they ARE taught in the NT.
This 90% of the 10 is being abused saying it is 100% of the 10 but only accounts for less than 1.5% of the Law if one is playing that game.
How can one equate the WHOLE LAW dragging in the rest of the 613 to advocate the Sabbath then tossing out 602 or so commandments or over 98% of them to get the Sabbath (and perhaps dietary laws) advocated.
Would you bet your life when 98% of the picture is missing (you only have 1.5% of the idea

 

[LarryP2]

Sadly you can find 9 of the 10 commandments specifically reiterated throughout the New Testament in one way or another but the Sabbath Commandment is absolutely forgotten.... unmentioned like vaporware.

And sadly, given that all 9 remaining Commandments are mentioned together as a group in three different places in the New Testament, it indicates that both Jesus and Paul were sending a strong message that Christians were not commanded to keep the Sabbath. Sadly, many legalists wish to disregard the clear intention expressed in those three places that obviously Sabbath Keeping is incompatible with Grace, since it was after all, given to the Children of Israel to distinguish them from all other Natoins.

We have an invisible commandment missing from the 10 commandments which leads me to think that Christians are only applicable to 9 Commandments because they ARE taught in the NT.
This 90% of the 10 is being abused saying it is 100% of the 10 but only accounts for less than 1.5% of the Law if one is playing that game.
How can one equate the WHOLE LAW dragging in the rest of the 613 to advocate the Sabbath then tossing out 602 or so commandments or over 98% of them to get the Sabbath (and perhaps dietary laws) advocated.
Would you bet your life when 98% of the picture is missing (you only have 1.5% of the idea

Yes sadly, Sabbath Keepers refuse to acknowledge Paul's clear understanding that the 613 were a unitary system that cannot be divided and that Paul would have never described the Decalogue or "the Law" as the "Ten Commandments." Sadly, that assertion has been posted in this section four times in the last 24 hours, and no Sabbath Keeper has yet addressed or disputed that as Paul's understanding of the indivisible Law.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes sadly, Sabbath Keepers refuse to acknowledge Paul's clear understanding that the 613 were a unitary system that cannot be divided and that Paul would have never described the Decalogue or "the Law" as the "Ten Commandments." Sadly, that assertion has been posted in this section four times in the last 24 hours, and no Sabbath Keeper has yet addressed or disputed that as Paul's understanding of the indivisible Law.

I think the exclamation point of it all is Paul's discusssion about keeping the Law around those who keep it and him equating NOT keeping the Law around those who do NOT keep it. No Law keeping Jew would dare to even consider saying he could act that way. The Idea of even considering breaking the Sabbath was tantamount to death amongst them even if they didn't get caught they wouldn't dare talk as Paul did... Never.
The importance of the Sabbath for these people makes them have to literally turn off their brain when it comes to the New Testament and the inversely amount of attention given to it compared to their attention they give it. You pretty much have to deal with arguments from silence and guilt by association arguments to even equate the existence of Sabbath Keeping by anyone after Jesus died there really isn't mention about it beyond that of perhaps a footnote.
It is like screaming frantically to everyone..... FIRE!!! to draw a huge crowd and panic everyone.... and when everyone arrives the person has nothing but a candle to show for themselves. That is how the Sabbath is equated via Sabbath keepers vs the NT authors.

 

[LarryP2]

I think the exclamation point of it all is Paul's discusssion about keeping the Law around those who keep it and him equating NOT keeping the Law around those who do NOT keep it. No Law keeping Jew would dare to even consider saying he could act that way. The Idea of even considering breaking the Sabbath was tantamount to death amongst them even if they didn't get caught they wouldn't dare talk as Paul did... Never.
The importance of the Sabbath for these people makes them have to literally turn off their brain when it comes to the New Testament and the inversely amount of attention given to it compared to their attention they give it. You pretty much have to deal with arguments from silence and guilt by association arguments to even equate the existence of Sabbath Keeping by anyone after Jesus died there really isn't mention about it beyond that of perhaps a footnote.
It is like screaming frantically to everyone..... FIRE!!! to draw a huge crowd and panic everyone.... and when everyone arrives the person has nothing but a candle to show for themselves. That is how the Sabbath is equated via Sabbath keepers vs the NT authors.

They panic without their "Ten Commandments Security blanket." They even accuse Christians of murder if they dare accept what Paul clearly says about the obsolescence of the Mosaic Law. Yet the Old Testament murder prohibition is vastly inferior to the New Testament regime:

Matthew 5:21, Matthew 15:19, Matthew 19:19, Matthew 22:7, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 13:9, 1 Timothy 1:9, James 2:11, Revelation 21:8

You would almost think 9 prohibitions against murder would be enough! But no, unless its in the Ten Commandments, it doesn't count.

 

[SAAN]

Sadly, many on here who want the Ten Commandments to apply to Christians wish to completely disregard the other mandatory 603 Commandments of the Mosaic covenant. And it is really sad that all of the Apostles thought the 613 commandments were an indivisible unit of law, yet many people wish to disregard that understanding.

Sadly, many others on here either cannot read, or refuse to read - even when they are carefully spelled out for them in explicit detail -

Ephesians 6:2:"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."

Colossians 3:20: "Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord."

1 Peter 1:1: "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignoranc"

Matthew 15:4: "For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,"

Which all explicitly reaffirm the commandment to Honor your parents, without binding Christians to all 613 of the Old Testament Commandments.

Sadly, the Salvation by Sabbath Keeping contingent truly does not accept that the New Testament has its own criteria that is radically different than the Mosaic legal system that was abandoned at the Cross.

The commandments were before the law. The Levitical laws were added because of transgressions. You dont seem to have a problem with the 10C's, you just have a problem with the 4th one you have the issue with, which I can understand because you use to be an SDA and they literally idolize that day and tie it to Salvation.

The only radically different system in the NT vs the OT is the animal sacrifices are now abolished in replace of Jesus blood.

 

[LarryP2]

The commandments were before the law. The Levitical laws were added because of transgressions. You dont seem to have a problem with the 10C's, you just have a problem with the 4th one you have the issue with, which I can understand because you use to be an SDA and they literally idolize that day and tie it to Salvation.

The only radically different system in the NT vs the OT is the animal sacrifices are now abolished in replace of Jesus blood.

I have a "problem" with the 4th Commandment, as I grew up in a Church focused exclusively on it as a means of Salvation. In no way is that Christianity. It was a horrible, carking, carping, dry, spiritless and miserable existence. It should be classified as child abuse. My research has indicated that, with very rare exception (SDB), it virtually always ends up that way, no matter the denomination. I kept it for 22 years. It is designed specifically to instill fear and doubts about your Salvation. It is designed specifically to distract from and degrade the Resurrection and its effect. It is a flagrantly worthless and meaningless gesture that allows you to gloat and preen self-righteously over "mere" Sunday-keeping Christians. That is all. It does nothing and is utterly pointless and ridiculous, with no Biblical support and based totally upon a massive framework of horrible prophetic lies. Lies Lies Lies!

If it were still that horrible, yet somehow managed not to horrifically distract from and denigrate the Resurrection, it might be halfway tolerable. The Seventh Day Baptists have managed to "catch lightening in the bottle" and have practiced the Sabbath without it apparently denigrating the Resurrection. But you have to wonder why they even bother, given their adamant insistence that their beliefs do not materially differ in the least from "First Day Baptists." They insist that their Sabbath-Keeping adds nothing to Salvation and adds nothing to their day-to-day Christian experience.

Have I somehow missed something? Have the Seventh Day Baptists truly said they follow a pointless Sabbath doctrine they have carefully limited so that it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on anything? It sounds like they work their tails off in a colossal waste of time and energy trying to limit the usual collateral damage it inevitably causes. Wouldn't their limited resources and energy be better used doing something productive, say fighting internet porn? Or to provide free hemorrhoid medicine to homeless people? How about an inner-city community garden in a vacant lot? Probably their biggest congregation is near Seattle, a huge west coast seaport. I was there over the weekend and saw plenty of rust that a congregation of devout Seventh Day Baptists could attack and make a meaningful contribution to a better world. How about volunteering to scrape off rust and barnacles on ocean-going ships on Saturdays, instead of trying to sneak an illicit game of Angry Birds before Sundown? Any of my alternatives might actually accomplish something. I am aware that none of my ideas have the scary cachet of a 1500 year-old Vatican conspiracy theory, ending someday with the 9-headed Pope Monster wading out of the ocean to suck all the blood from Sabbath Keeping infants. Here's Canright, Seventh Day Adventism's mortal enemy:

"In 1664, over 200 years ago, the Seventh-Day Baptists began teaching that doctrine in America at Newport, R. I. The first church was organized Dec. 23, 1671. See “Manual of the Seventh-Day Baptists,” pages 39, 40. From that time on they industriously taught the observance of the seventh day, both in America and other lands, even as far as China, by preaching, by tracts, books and periodicals, till the religious world is familiar with their views. They were numerous enough to organize a general conference as early is 1802. See Hist. S. D. Bap. Gen. Conf., pages 15, 238, or any cyclopedia. They have had academies, colleges, and universities; learned men, able writers, and zealous workers. What have they accomplished? Almost nothing. They now number only about 8,000, and are not holding their own, but are losing ground every decade. They can not even hold the increase of their children. Largely their youth abandon Saturday for Sunday. For convenience they mostly colonize together, and so have little influence on the world. To their praise be it said that they are an excellent people, and free from any fanatical or other heretical notions. Here again the seventh day has had the fairest possible chance of success. Its advocates are intelligent, highly educated, respected, and live in this free land and age of investigation. Why has it not succeeded? That it has not they themselves must admit. These sober, stubborn facts should have weight with us. Sabbatarian brethren, stop and weigh these things fairly. What is the use of wasting life contending for what is a practical failure?......Experience shows that keeping the Jewish Sabbath dwarfs, cripples, and unfits a church for gospel work." http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?...sk=view&id=653&Itemid=8&limit=1&limitstart=18

My actual living experience with Sabbath-Keeping is that it is precisely, exactly what Ignatius of Antioch, Canright, and Justin Martyr wisely warned against. My 22-year experience with this colossal disaster has been that it is utterly and completely contrary to Grace and the Gospel. It only contributes to silly, piddly, toxic legalism and mightily distracts from Grace and the Resurrection. It is the only church doctrine in history in effect that reminds one of a little boy peeing his pants: It temporarily gives a nice warm feeling.

And no way can it be fixed and still add anything meaningful to Christianity. The Seventh Day Baptists have had 400 years of experience, valiantly trying and failing to do just that.