To Rapture Believers: 1 Thess. 4:16 vs John 6:39-40,44,54

[random person]

Does the bodily resurrection occur 1,003.5 or 1,007 & 1,000 years before the LAST DAY? (That is two resurrections before the last day!)

Or does it occur on the LAST DAY?

 

[random person]

See, I want to read an explanation on the inconsistancies of believing in a Rapture,

1. Rapture (first resurrection 1 Thess. 4:16)
2. Millennial Kingdom (second resurrection Rev. 20:4)
3. Last Day (third resurrection, John 5:28-29; John 6:39-40,44,54; 12:48; Acts 24:15; Rev. 20:11-15)

 

[Douggg]

See, I want to read an explanation on the inconsistancies of believing in a Rapture,

1. Rapture (first resurrection 1 Thess. 4:16)
2. Millennial Kingdom (second resurrection Rev. 20:4)
3. Last Day (third resurrection, John 5:28-29; John 6:39-40,44,54; 12:48; Acts 24:15; Rev. 20:11-15)

The Rapture/resurrection event in 1Thessalonians4:15 is not called "the first resurrection".

The term "the first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6, is at the beginning of the millennium for them who had been martyred for refusing the mark, the name, or the number of the beast's name.

There is no changing of them who are alive (rapture) in Revelation 20:4-6

The second resurrection of the millennium, at the end, in Revelation 20, is for the rest of the dead which did not take part in either the Rapture/Resurrection event or the first resurrection of the millennium.

The problem is that you are mislabeling the resurrections, and of course there is a conflict when you change what the bible says.

 

[random person]

The Rapture/resurrection event in 1Thessalonians4:15 is not called "the first resurrection".

The term "the first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6, is at the beginning of the millennium for them who had been martyred for refusing the mark, the name, or the number of the beast's name.

There is no changing of them who are alive (rapture) in Revelation 20:4-6

The second resurrection of the millennium, at the end, in Revelation 20, is for the rest of the dead which did not take part in either the Rapture/Resurrection event or the first resurrection of the millennium.

The problem is that you are mislabeling the resurrections, and of course there is a conflict when you change what the bible says.

According to the way you read the Bible, there is a resurrection at the Rapture!

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Didn't Jesus say, the dead in Christ will rise on the Last Day not at the Rapture, see verses 39-40,44,54?

The way I see it, it is you that are contradicting Christ's words.

 

[Douggg]

double post.

 

[Douggg]

According to the way you read the Bible, there is a resurrection at the Rapture!

Yes.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Didn't Jesus say, the dead in Christ will rise on the Last Day not at the Rapture, see verses 39-40,44,54?

The way I see it, it is you that are contradicting Christ's words.

It does not say first resurrection in 1thessalonians4.

There will be persons, both save and unsaved, who did not partake in either the 1Thessalonians4 event, nor in the Revelation 20:4-6 event, who will be raised on the last day.

Such as the multitudes born during the millennium, who accept Jesus during that time, and will die, to be resurrected at the great white throne judgment, the literal last day, and enter eternity in their incorruptible bodies.

There are also a number of other circumstances by which persons will be resurrected on the last day to enter eternity, granted eternal life, like the little babies and children who have died.

 

[ebedmelech]

Oh brother!!!

The first resurrection was when you got saved! It was a spiritual resurrection! Romans 6:1-11, Ephesians 2:1-6, and Colossians 2:10-15.

That's the first ressurection...that's why "The second death has no power"...you were made ALIVE in Christ...

 

[Old Timer]

Christians are waiting for the adoption.. to wit, the redemption of our body.

Which shall be changed in the

It is serious doctrinal error to associate being born of the SPIRIT (which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption) with the resurrection of the dead.

Because THEN a person must say that the resurrection is past..

And of course the resurrection is not past.. it's future.. because it is inseparable from the coming of Christ.

That is UNDENIABLE..

 

[n2thelight]

Yes.

It does not say first resurrection in 1thessalonians4.

There will be persons, both save and unsaved, who did not partake in either the 1Thessalonians4 event, nor in the Revelation 20:4-6 event, who will be raised on the last day.

Such as the multitudes born during the millennium, who accept Jesus during that time, and will die, to be resurrected at the great white throne judgment, the literal last day, and enter eternity in their incorruptible bodies.

There are also a number of other circumstances by which persons will be resurrected on the last day to enter eternity, granted eternal life, like the little babies and children who have died.

Matthew 13:24-30 ...'Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; [NO] lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'

Wow! I love the Word of God. It is so clear that we need not second guess what is going to happen. So what are we told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gather" His people BEFORE the tribulation and separate the "wheat and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet what does it clearly state in the Bible verse above? That the separation only takes place AT the harvest.

Ok. So according to those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory, the harvest takes place BEFORE the tribulation and BEFORE the end of the world. This is clearly what they believe because according to this teaching, the world continues for another 7 years and then another 1000 years AFTER the rapture. Well, what does Christ Jesus our Teacher say about this?

Matthew 13:38-40 ...'The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.'

The church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-trib rapture theory is now blown to bits by the Word of God!

Biblical Proof Showing the Rapture Doctrine to be FALSE!

 

[Old Timer]

And then they're going to say that the bodily resurrection is the second resurrection after the thousand years (which they already believe is happening NOW)... although that doesn't make any sense either because those in resurrection AFTER the thousand years had NO PART in the FIRST resurrection..

See how it all falls apart..

Amillennialism doesn't get it done folks..

 

[Old Timer]

This is also why Paul strongly refutes those who say that the resurrection is past.. and even writes that their words do eat like a cancer..

How serious is that?

Another simple reason why it's such a serious error is because the resurrection of the dead us undeniably connected to the coming of Christ.. which of course is our HOPE.. even long after we fall asleep in Christ..

He's certainly going to wake us in that DAY.. the Day of the LORD.. the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as a thief in the night... AND... as travail upon a woman with child..

And as Paul is.. I am persuaded that He who hath begun a GOOD WORK in you, shall perform it even until the Day of Jesus Christ..

THAT you can rest assured in..

 

[ebedmelech]

And then they're going to say that the bodily resurrection is the second resurrection after the thousand years (which they already believe is happening NOW)... although that doesn't make any sense either because those in resurrection AFTER the thousand years had NO PART in the FIRST resurrection..

See how it all falls apart..

Amillennialism doesn't get it done folks..

Just because you buy the futurist package doesn't mean other saints have to.

So let's see how it happens...you can't relate to the spiritual application of scripture, so you run around with your sarcasm...instead of really reading scripture.

Now Jesus said in John 11:25, 26:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

How does that happen? It doesn't register does it?

 

[Old Timer]

Just because you buy the futurist package doesn't mean other saints have to.

So let's see how it happens...you can't relate to the spiritual application of scripture, so you run around with your sarcasm...instead of really reading scripture.

Now Jesus said in John 11:25, 26:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

How does that happen? It doesn't register does it?

It happens at the last day if you believe the word of God.. which I don't think matters much to you..

It's nonsense to say that the resurrection is past.. and serious error.. like it eats as does a cancer..

That doesn't stop it from spreading around here though with all the partial preterists..

LOL

 

[ebedmelech]

It happens at the last day if you believe the word of God.. which I don't think matters much to you..

It's nonsense to say that the resurrection is past.. and serious error.. like it eats as does a cancer..

That doesn't stop it from spreading around here though with all the partial preterists..

LOL

This is what I mean...instead of looking at what Jesus said and thinking about it...you'd rather crack a sarcastic joke.

Did you really read what Jesus said though?

 

[Old Timer]

This is what I mean...instead of looking at what Jesus said and thinking about it...you'd rather crack a sarcastic joke.

Did you really read what Jesus said though?

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic..

I believe that the bodily resurrection of the dead is going to happen at the last DAY..

Do you have a problem with that according to the scriptures?

 

[n2thelight]

So let's see how it happens...you can't relate to the spiritual application of scripture, so you run around with your sarcasm...instead of really reading scripture.

Curious,were there any spiritual applications to scripture prior to AD 70 ?

 

[Old Timer]

Once again, it's futile for amils to insist that Rev 20 pertains to being born again, as they do..

It's nonsense.. and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the scriptures actually DO SAY in Revelation 20.. and of course that's because they're all super spiritual and must spiritualize the things which shall be hereafter into the things which are now..

Doesn't hunt.. and I know a little 'bout huntin..

 

[Old Timer]

Ebed,

Let Micah know that I just had the doghouse remodeled and wouldn't mind discussing these things over.. say a nice game of billiards?

Let him know..

 

[ebedmelech]

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic..

I believe that the bodily resurrection of the dead is going to happen at the last DAY..

Do you have a problem with that according to the scriptures?

No. I don't. However you do! Tha would be because there are some fundamentals you either don't think about, OR you don't apply.

Let's start with Adam...God told him that when he ate of fruit of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" that he would die. Did he die physically after he ate it? NO! He died Spiritually! That is what you're missing when you don't acknowledge the Spiritual resurrection Old Timer! The disconnect is you don't acknowledge what scripture says.

Adam died Spiritually...and Christ came to restore that...so we first come alive to God through Christ....that when we die, even though our bodies are laid in the ground, because we have come to Christ, our spirit goes to God.

That is also why the first resurrection is when you come alive to God through Christ! The relationship with God is resurreced Spiritually through Christ! Should we die before Christ returns, WE KNOW on the last day OUR BODIES will be resurrected because our Spirit was first resurrected at salvation...because one CANNOT know God without coming alive to Him through Christ. That's what those passges in Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians are speaking to!

This is why you *ought* to think about what scripture says...because on this point...you're missing!

 

[n2thelight]

Question,is the below verse,speaking of the rapture?

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."