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Fundamental misunderstanding

Interplanner

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BW asserts:
Dispensationalists neither teach nor believe that God is ever going back to the old covenant. When Israel is finally restored, it will be under the new covenant.

1, the return to the old covenant is "unfinished business" that needs to be returned to. They constantly sort OT prophecy for "unfulfillments" that are coming, which is not the sense of the NT on that topic. They believe it is why the OT prophecies have that Judaistic flavor to them. Otherwise they would be perfectly comfortable with the new realities of the NT but they are not. As point #2 shows.

2, Jesus, Paul and Hebrews show that the new covenant is already here. It is here because Christ has "obtained eternal redemption" as the high priest of what is already here. D'ism is not comfortable with Hebrews about the new covenant, the present reality, nor with the promises being realized now (11:40). The discomfort is shown hourly here at CF.

3, The 2nd assertion is true (in the present tense) if you realize that Paul is speaking about an "Israel" now (or the "Hebrews" now) as in the parable of the tenants 'new people' or Romans or Galatians, but of course, this is not what BW means. BW is referring to a future age where things are literal. The NT is about the present age in Christ. Hence the term futurism.
 

7sForDays

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BW asserts:
Dispensationalists neither teach nor believe that God is ever going back to the old covenant. When Israel is finally restored, it will be under the new covenant.

1, the return to the old covenant is "unfinished business" that needs to be returned to. They constantly sort OT prophecy for "unfulfillments" that are coming, which is not the sense of the NT on that topic. They believe it is why the OT prophecies have that Judaistic flavor to them. Otherwise they would be perfectly comfortable with the new realities of the NT but they are not. As point #2 shows.

2, Jesus, Paul and Hebrews show that the new covenant is already here. It is here because Christ has "obtained eternal redemption" as the high priest of what is already here. D'ism is not comfortable with Hebrews about the new covenant, the present reality, nor with the promises being realized now (11:40). The discomfort is shown hourly here at CF.

3, The 2nd assertion is true (in the present tense) if you realize that Paul is speaking about an "Israel" now (or the "Hebrews" now) as in the parable of the tenants 'new people' or Romans or Galatians, but of course, this is not what BW means. BW is referring to a future age where things are literal. The NT is about the present age in Christ. Hence the term futurism.

God said the Jews will come to Christ.


That hasnt happened yet.
 
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7sForDays

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"The Jews" did, and still are.

Ok, let me be more specific.

These verses are "unfulfilled".

Zec 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west. Half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south.

Zec 14:11 And Jerusalem will be filled, safe at last, never again to be cursed and destroyed.
 
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daq

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Ok, let me be more specific.

These verses are "unfulfilled".

Zec 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west. Half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south.

Zec 14:11 And Jerusalem will be filled, safe at last, never again to be cursed and destroyed.


That passage clearly speaks of the "feet" of the Father YHWH who is non-corporeal Spirit:

Zechariah 14:3-4 KJV
3. Then shall the Lord [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


In addition you, like most, have neglected what in fact the same OT authors have already stated concerning the feet of YHWH in their own metaphorical prophetic utterances and writings:

Nahum 1:1-3 KJV
1. The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2. God is jealous, and the Lord [YHWH] revengeth; the Lord [YHWH] revengeth, and is furious; the Lord [YHWH] will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3. The Lord [YHWH] is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord [YHWH] hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.


THE CLOUDS ARE THE DUST OF THE "FEET" OF YHWH:

Matthew 17:4-5 KJV
4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Luke 9:27-35 KJV
27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33. And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.


And if one is so bold as to ignore this information we have the same testimony from Peter concerning this event which flies in the face of those who disbelieve the record having been written in the Gospel accounts:

2 Peter 1:16-21 KJV
16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Isn't this the same passage the footurists quote to prove their thousand year reign of fantasy flesh? ^_^
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Biblewriter

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BW asserts:
Dispensationalists neither teach nor believe that God is ever going back to the old covenant. When Israel is finally restored, it will be under the new covenant.

1, the return to the old covenant is "unfinished business" that needs to be returned to. They constantly sort OT prophecy for "unfulfillments" that are coming, which is not the sense of the NT on that topic. They believe it is why the OT prophecies have that Judaistic flavor to them. Otherwise they would be perfectly comfortable with the new realities of the NT but they are not. As point #2 shows.

Here, Interplaner is continuing his campaign of gross misrepresentation of what dipensationalists teach. He claims that he knows, because he attended dispensational schools. But he conclusively proved that he either never even closely listened to his professors of is blatantly lying, by claiming that these same false doctrines he attributes to us are taught by "all dispensationalists, including BW."

The rest of his rant is not even worth answering.
 
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daq

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Here, Interplaner is continuing his campaign of gross misrepresentation of what dipensationalists teach. He claims that he knows, because he attended dispensational schools. But he conclusively proved that he either never even closely listened to his professors of is blatantly lying, by claiming that these same false doctrines he attributes to us are taught by "all dispensationalists, including BW."

The rest of his rant is not eve worth answering.

To me it's simply another affirmation when all men do is attack the truth in post after post and thread after thread.

What about the Nahum 1:3 SCRIPTURE that was posted above which clearly states that the clouds are the dust of the feet of YHWH? What about the clear evidence that the Prophet Zechariah references the Prophet Nahum when he states that the FEET OF YHWH shall stand or station upon the Holy Mount? What about the fact that the CLOUD overshadowed and even "enveloped" the disciples when they were with Yeshua, Moses, and Elijah, at the transfiguration event, (Luke version) when the Father spoke from the effervescent CLOUD? What about the confirmation of these facts from the Second Epistle of Peter at a later date showing that he clearly attributes these events to PROPHECY from the OT? Does anyone here know of any other place where this prophecy can be found apart from Zechariah 14:3-4? It is right there in black and white staring us all in the face but who will indeed believe it? :)
 
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Biblewriter

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What about the Nahum 1:3 SCRIPTURE that was posted above which clearly states that the clouds are the dust of the feet of YHWH? What about the clear evidence that the Prophet Zechariah references the Prophet Nahum when he states that the FEET OF YHWH shall stand or station upon the Holy Mount? What about the fact that the CLOUD overshadowed and even "enveloped" the disciples when they were with Yeshua, Moses, and Elijah, at the transfiguration event, (Luke version) when the Father spoke from the effervescent CLOUD? What about the confirmation of these facts from the Second Epistle of Peter at a later date showing that he clearly attributes these events to PROPHECY from the OT? Does anyone here know of any other place where this prophecy can be found apart from Zechariah 14:3-4? It is right there in black and white staring us all in the face but who will indeed believe it? :)

This is a prime example of wresting scripture. You are lifting two verses out of a twenty-one verse prophecy, and associating these two verses with other prophecies whch are not even speaking of the same thing.

Even if you were correct (which you are not) about His feet, you cannot escape the clear declaration of the rest of Zechariah 14.
 
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daq

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This is a prime example of wresting scripture. You are lifting two verses out of a twenty-one verse prophecy, and associating these two verses with other prophecies whch are not even speaking of the same thing.

Even if you were correct (which you are not) about His feet, you cannot escape the clear declaration of the rest of Zechariah 14.

The above response is a prime example of one who has no clue what he speaks of and essentially denies the earthquakes and events recorded in the Scripture surrounding the transfiguration, betrayal, crucifixion, and resurrection of Yeshua, so as to continue forcing a paradigm based in private interpretations not supported in the Scripture by the authors, apostles, disciples, and witnesses of Yeshua who were there. :)

All the while ignoring cold hard evidence:

fissure-golgotha.jpg


fissure-sepulchre.jpg


moriah-olivet3.gif

.


Olivet Zeytiym :wave:


.
 
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riverrat

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Here, Interplaner is continuing his campaign of gross misrepresentation of what dipensationalists teach. He claims that he knows, because he attended dispensational schools. But he conclusively proved that he either never even closely listened to his professors of is blatantly lying, by claiming that these same false doctrines he attributes to us are taught by "all dispensationalists, including BW."

The rest of his rant is not eve worth answering.
He must have slept through and/or skipped a lot of classes!
 
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Biblewriter

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The above response is a prime example of one who has no clue what he speaks of and essentially denies the earthquakes and events recorded in the Scripture surrounding the transfiguration, betrayal, crucifixion, and resurrection of Yeshua, so as to continue forcing a paradigm based in private interpretations not supported in the Scripture by the authors, apostles, disciples, and witnesses of Yeshua who were there. :)

All the while ignoring cold hard evidence:

fissure-golgotha.jpg


fissure-sepulchre.jpg


moriah-olivet3.gif

.


Olivet Zeytiym :wave:


.


This is a prime example of the gross misrepresentations always made by Preterists. It is positively ludicrous to claim that an earthquake that made a crack a few inches wide was a fulfillment this prophecy

"And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:4b-5a

A crack a few inches wide in a rock face does not even faintly resemble a "mountain valley" so large that people could flee through it. Nor does a north-to-south crack extending half way through the Mount of Olives even faintly resemble an opening running running east-to-west, extending all the way to Azal.

So the grand totality of the resemblance to the prophecy is that there was an earth quake. And the earthquake was not even when He came, but when He left.

If such gross misrepresentations were not so seriously irreverent, they would be humorous.
 
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Interplanner

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Well, to use BW's literalism, "the earth shook" Mt 27 in the Gospel. So there's probably evidence.

I worked all day and looking at BW's response to the OP points after being gone all day, I don't find him able to engage them. He should be able to say why something is wrong there succinctly, in a detail.

He is basically saying there is no conflict. If the D'ists said what he thinks, I would not have a conflict. (In fact, he surprised me this morning by saying that my 'when Israel...' has no basis in the NT, and that's correct). So I don't really know if he is assimilating what is going on here yet.

I did not misunderstand my professors. One of them was a second reader for Ryrie's D'ISM TODAY. an editing reader. We totally disagreed about the 2 people / 2 programs, which is the only way futurism can exist, and is how Judaic detail returns to future eschatology, in spite of being unnecessary, except for the possibility of delusion, which more or less has continued down through time (in RCC, in Islam, in other faiths).

I also do not misunderstand entries here. As expected, they are trying to find "unfulfillments" that are "unfinished business" for the future.

All I can say is, the more hardened BW becomes, the poorer his illustrations, because he's not paying attention to what goes on here or to me.
 
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7sForDays

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Well, to use BW's literalism, "the earth shook"

Is this verse literal to you interplanner?

Zec_9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
 
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Biblewriter

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Well, to use BW's literalism, "the earth shook" Mt 27 in the Gospel. So there's probably evidence.

I worked all day and looking at BW's response to the OP points after being gone all day, I don't find him able to engage them. He should be able to say why something is wrong there succinctly, in a detail.

He is basically saying there is no conflict. If the D'ists said what he thinks, I would not have a conflict. (In fact, he surprised me this morning by saying that my 'when Israel...' has no basis in the NT, and that's correct). So I don't really know if he is assimilating what is going on here yet.

I did not misunderstand my professors. One of them was a second reader for Ryrie's D'ISM TODAY. an editing reader. We totally disagreed about the 2 people / 2 programs, which is the only way futurism can exist, and is how Judaic detail returns to future eschatology, in spite of being unnecessary, except for the possibility of delusion, which more or less has continued down through time (in RCC, in Islam, in other faiths).

I also do not misunderstand entries here. As expected, they are trying to find "unfulfillments" that are "unfinished business" for the future.

All I can say is, the more hardened BW becomes, the poorer his illustrations, because he's not paying attention to what goes on here or to me.

In case you did not notice, I did answer your pints, I said they were not worth answering.

But since you want a definitive answer. The fact that the cnew covenant is already in effect is exactly why Israel's restoration woll be inder the new covenant.

And rather than "trying to find unfulfilled prophecies which are "unfinished business" I am not "trying" to "find" anything at all. I am proving, beyond any rational debate, that these well known prophecies have unquestionably not been fulfilled. And that all the Preterists pretensins that they have been fulfilled are total wrestings of all the basic elements of essentially every prophecy they falsely pretend has been fulfilled.

In short, I have repeatedly and conclusively proved that these prophecies have indeed not even been partially fulfilled, and that any claim that they have been fulfilled it a gross lie.

And you have already conclusively proved that if you indeed paid careful attention to what your professors said, and to what I have said, you are flatly lying about what we are teaching.
 
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daq

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This is a prime example of the gross misrepresentations always made by Preterists. It is positively ludicrous to claim that an earthquake that made a crack a few inches wide was a fulfillment this prophecy

"And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:4b-5a

A crack a few inches wide in a rock face does not even faintly resemble a "mountain valley" so large that people could flee through it. Nor does a north-to-south crack extending half way through the Mount of Olives even faintly resemble an opening running running east-to-west, extending all the way to Azal.

So the grand totality of the resemblance to the prophecy is that there was an earth quake. And the earthquake was not even when He came, but when He left.

If such gross misrepresentations were not so seriously irreverent, they would be humorous.

There are "great fissures" and crevices all over the writings including the one in which Moshe was placed by the side of the Most High when he passed by and allowed Moshe to see his hinder parts. "Great" does not always mean just what *you* imagine it to mean such as great only in literal size, depth, or expanse. You will only begin to better understand if and when you ever repent and perceive how GREAT an offense it is when you ridicule the fissure that opened up to receive the precious blood of Messiah at Golgotha Moriah, (the highest point of Moriah by the way). The same earthquake fissure it was that shook the four pillars of the heavens upon which the brilliant sky blue vail was hung and rent the vail down the center in twain causing the stars of the heavens which were upon it to fall to the earth just as Yeshua had prophesied would happen. If you truly served the Master you would not be so disrespectful concerning his precious blood, which was spilled for you, and surely the blood of Messiah you would have followed down into the fissure yourself, (humble yourself, close your eyes, and bow your head, and you will see) and your race to run the mountain valley of YHWH would have surely begun.

Sorry about that left handed goat-fig self exalting luck of yours. :sorry:

EDIT-ADDENDUM:

If you had read the page you would know where and why your assumptions are misguided but why on earth would one such as yourself desire to know whether or not you are mistaken when you know you cannot be mistaken? That is indeed a rare quality and I thank the Father that I have at least some of it! But just so you know although I know you do not care to know it is not a "valley" but a "gey'" which is a deep narrow gorge, not a gully or winter-torrent, and thus a "great fissure" or chasm. Likewise the great fissure is HSN#1234 "baqa`" which is not just "to split" but to cleave, to rend, to rent, break, rip, tear, or open, and this is the most appropriate word for the circumstances which we read in the Gospel accounts where the text of Matthew 27:51 clearly states that there was a great earthquake and "the rocks rent", (GSN#4977 "schizo" which is the Greek equivalent of "baqa`" meaning to split, sever, break, divide, open, rend, make a rent). In addition to those image files you quoted above I found the following file in an image search while looking for fissures at Golgotha. When I went to the blog I was astounded at what I found. Whether the author is the one in the image or not what he is stating is that this image is the fissure opening at the top of the crucifixion site, (which is not far from where the modern Muslim cemetery is located on the top of Skull Hill or the Skull Face Golgotha). The fissure runs from the main post hole where the Cross of Messiah would have been placed when he was "stood up" on the stake or post. The fissure also runs from the post hole down twenty feet into the bedrock and into the chamber below where the blood would have run down through the crevice, (into the Bay of Abraham). If this be the case, and it is, then those who say they do not believe Zechariah 14:4 was fulfilled through Messiah, (because they have not seen it happen with their own "eyes of the flesh") are themselves ignoring clear and plain-as-day cold hard physical-geologic evidence. Should not this kind of physical evidence be common knowledge amongst all disciples of Yeshua, modern scholars, and even the so-called prophecy experts? The same is true of the secondary fissure in the bedrock underneath the Church of the Holy Sepulcher which runs through the temple mount exactly beneath the very spot where the massive vail would have been hanging at the time of the great earthquake of Matthew 27:51. Millions of pilgrims to the Holy Land have seen this fissure through the ages but clearly the so called prophecy experts of today have an alternative agenda. All of those knowing and seeing these things but ignoring them in favor of their own alternative agendas are going to have a lot of explaining to do when they stand before the Master.

escrp03.jpg

Providing Light: Golgotha

Can you not see on the large map, (which you quoted) that the great city was divided into three parts? The evidence is right there in the geologic evidence running through the bedrock foundations of Yerushalaim. However the Father is merciful and although the great city was divided into three parts only Yeshua and those crucified with him died at Yerushalaim in that Great Day of the Atonement of the world. :)
.
 
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Biblewriter

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There are "great fissures" and crevices all over the writings including the one in which Moshe was placed by the side of the Most High when he passed by and allowed Moshe to see his hinder parts. "Great" does not always mean just what *you* imagine it to mean such as great only in literal size, depth, or expanse. You will only begin to better understand if and when you ever repent and perceive how GREAT an offense it is when you ridicule the fissure that opened up to receive the precious blood of Messiah at Golgotha Moriah, (the highest point of Moriah by the way). The same earthquake fissure it was that shook the four pillars of the heavens upon which the brilliant sky blue vail was hung and rent the vail down the center in twain causing the stars of the heavens which were upon it to fall to the earth just as Yeshua had prophesied would happen. If you truly served the Master you would not be so disrespectful concerning his precious blood, which was spilled for you, and surely the blood of Messiah you would have followed down into the fissure yourself, (humble yourself, close your eyes, and bow your head, and you will see) and your race to run the mountain valley of YHWH would have surely begun.

Sorry about that left handed goat-fig self exalting luck of yours. :sorry:

.

I did not ridicule anything that happened at all. I ridiculed claiming that this was a fulfillment of Zechariah 14:4-5. This was indeed appropriate, for the fissure did not meet even one of the prophetic descriptions involved. It went the wrong direction. It did not go anywhere near as far as the prophecy said it would go. And it was not a thousandth as large as the prophecy said it would be. It happened as Our Lord was leaving, not as He was coming. And, although I failed to mention it, it did not even happen when our Lord's feet were touching the ground.

Other than those "small" details, however, it was indeed made by an earthquake, even though the parallel absolutely ends there.
 
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daq

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This is a prime example of the gross misrepresentations always made by Preterists. It is positively ludicrous to claim that an earthquake that made a crack a few inches wide was a fulfillment this prophecy

"And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:4b-5a

A crack a few inches wide in a rock face does not even faintly resemble a "mountain valley" so large that people could flee through it. Nor does a north-to-south crack extending half way through the Mount of Olives even faintly resemble an opening running running east-to-west, extending all the way to Azal.

So the grand totality of the resemblance to the prophecy is that there was an earth quake. And the earthquake was not even when He came, but when He left.

If such gross misrepresentations were not so seriously irreverent, they would be humorous.

By the way I am no Preterist as even Interplanner would likely tell you. But that just shows your willingness to create labels so as to categorize people and set them aside for how you presume you will judge them at a later date, (thus revealing the murder flowing from your heart). These things are neither "Preterist" nor "Dispensationalist" because "Until heaven and earth pass; not one yod or one horn shall pass from the Torah, until all of it be fulfilled." And you clearly reject the Testimony of Yeshua because he clearly tells us exactly what the OT-Tanak Prophets and their prophecies concern yet you and your kind have twisted the words of the prophets into literal physical flesh fantasies of a global dominating physical empire with yourselves ruling over the physical world for a thousand year Reich where you yourselves believe your superior race of "chosen ones" will rule over some form of "lesser brethren sheeples" who are lucky enough not be annihilated in your coming world war three to end all wars, (the third time is a charm for you and your masters I suppose). Yeshua clearly tells us what the prophets concern and it sounds nothing like what you and most others have been spewing for several hundred years now:

Matthew 7:12 KJV

12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


And because you do not believe the Testimony of Yeshua you too will give an answer for the machinations you continue to spread in rebellion and self exaltation here in the midst of the great congregation:

Deuteronomy 18:17-20 KJV
17. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Acts 3:19-23 KJV

19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

1 Corinthians 1:18-29 KJV

18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.

"Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of YHWH of Tsabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter."
;)
 
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Interplanner

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7s, re the earth shook

1, remember, many times in the gospel accounts 'gaia' is the land of Israel

2, in a way, I think it was the whole earth because God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

3, I have to be sarcastic about BW. As soon as he finds something he doesn't like in a passage (in which "doesn't like = contradicts futurism"), he does not treat it literally. It's rather predictable.
 
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