Yet Another False Accusation!!!!!

[Notrash]

Rather, I affirm it.

King Jesus of Israel delivered His JEWISH Followers, the prophesied remnant, in the time of the end almost 2000 years ago.

Thats how Paul saw it.
Rom 16:20

 

[Biblewriter]

I don't have time or energy right now; or ability to respend point by point.
So are you now saying that deut 30:6-14 is not the same as Jer 31 & simiar words of Ez 36 & 37?? W
Why would you say that?{/quote]

That is not what I said, if you go back and read it.

If Paul quotes from some of the verses, it doesn't mean he's plagurizing , but it means that the new heart of deut 30:6-14 is fulfilled.

You did not 'concede' to Ez 36/37 being the same as Jer 31 & deut 30; you AGREED.

I not only agreed, but when you state it this way, I still agree. Ezekiel 36/37. Jeremah 31, and Deuteronomy 30:1-10 are all speaking of the same thing. But that is not the ancient return from Babylon. I never could have agreed to such a lie as that. The return they all speak of is the future return which Isaiah 66 says will take place after the Lord comes.

If you now come to see how those agreements disproove your theories, then I guess its ok in your book of twists to change their meaning as confirmed by the apostles. I believe it was in a thread of the 20 questions I presented connecting Dan 9 and deuteronomies fnd of the nation prophecies.

It is pure imagination on your part that the Apostles confirmed that these passages were speaking of the return from Babylon.

Additionally, Is66 was fulfilled whe Christ came with consuming fire and whrlwind against the enemies of the new covt., against his sons & daughters through faith in his coming. Thus we're agreed!!!, but only disagreed of who his enemies are/were.{/quote]

It would be difficult for you to make a more incorrect statement.

your nonsense about Daniel is only pretending that the captivity was the final fulfillment of the curse. A few of them returned, and were again expelled under the same curse. But all of them will eventually be brought back.

 

[Biblewriter]

BW denies the prophecy of the new covt of deut 30:6-15 and dan 9:27 and then seeks to present 'facts' which are only "unfulfilled" from the point of view of his futurist literal, readings and national renderings; not from the point of view of the original reader, heare or speaker (God)

I don't have time for such 'these were never fuðfilled' objectiins. Change the hermeneutic, heart & spirit & then the understanding will be clear.

The only way to even imagine that even one of these has been fulfilled is to warp them and pretend they do not actually mean what they explicitly say.

They are not unfulfilled from a "point of view." The prophesied events never took place. Period. End this nonsense of pretending that they were somehow fulfilled, when they very plainly never happened.

It is simple falsehood to claim that even one of the prophesied events I named has ever taken place.

The reason you "don't have time for such 'these were never fuðfilled' objectiins" is because you cannot answer them. So you try to derail their obvious truth by pretending that other scriptures teach opposing concepts.

 

[Old Timer]

That's your invention and thinking Old Timer. I don't have a hatred for anyone.

Yet you constantly deny the simplest truth of scripture.. Israel's deliverance in the time of the end.

Its so obvious that the only conclusion can be that you hate the truth.

Israel's deliverance is so plain and obvious that there is no other option.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yet you constantly deny the simplest truth of scripture.. Israel's deliverance in the time of the end.

Its so obvious that the only conclusion can be that you hate the truth.

Israel's deliverance is so plain and obvious that there is no other option.

What it is is what you constantly deny..."The Israel of God"...but that's expected from those built on a "literal foundation"...it crumbles because it cant see the "forest for the trees".

It's like the "Pharisee syndrome" as Jesus spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood...they couldn't understand...and neither do you.

What are you left with than to make superficial attacks with vain insinuations?

So that what you do...because that's all you can do.

 

[Old Timer]

Oh right, you're an Israelite I forgot.

Lol

 

[Notrash]

The only way to even imagine that even one of these has been fulfilled is to warp them and pretend they do not actually mean what they explicitly say.

They are not unfulfilled from a "point of view." The prophesied events never took place. Period. End this nonsense of pretending that they were somehow fulfilled, when they very plainly never happened.

It is simple falsehood to claim that even one of the prophesied events I named has ever taken place.

The reason you "don't have time for such 'these were never fuðfilled' objectiins" is because you cannot answer them. So you try to derail their obvious truth by pretending that other scriptures teach opposing concepts.

No, i simpæy dont have time or interest right niw.

Now y

 

[Biblewriter]

No, i simpæy dont have time or interest right niw.

Now y

Thank you for your admission, even though it was only covert, that you have no answer for these hard, cold, facts.

 

[Notrash]

I not only agreed, but when you state it this way, I still agree. Ezekiel 36/37. Jeremah 31, and Deuteronomy 30:1-10 are all speaking of the same thing. But that is not the ancient return from Babylon. I never could have agreed to such a lie as that. The return they all speak of is the future return which Isaiah 66 says will take place after the Lord comes.
It is pure imagination on your part that the Apostles confirmed that these passages were speaking of the return from Bablon..

So here you agree that jer 31, Dan 30: 6-14 & similar words in Ez 36/37 all speak of the same thing. And most would say and agree that jer 31 is referring to the new covt wrought through Christ. And the apostle Paul affirms that deut 30 has been fulfilled in the believers of Christ who have recieved him within and made him lord; confessing with their lives that he was confirmed as lord through his resurrection in rom 10:5-9.

But YOU say that none of these will be in effect till sometime in the future?????????!!!

Your comments alone are the proof that dispensationalism ppstpones the kingdom of Christ/God within and the Everlasting covt which is new in contrast with the mosaic covt)

And the other comments of mine stand unchanged but reaffirmed.

The answers are yes to the 3 questions. Daniel was in the Babylonian captivity that had been prophecied by Moaes 1000 yrs earlier in Deut 29 & 30.. His prayer brought the direct response from the angel of the news that the decree for there release from babylon was being made!!!! GLORY!!!

There has not been another physical captivity to equal that of babylon where they were actually kept captive. Dispersion, occupation of the land, yes; but not captivity. What now calls itself jews or Israel has not been in 'captivity; thus any so called return is not a fulfillment of Deut 30. Furthermore, they were to experience the latter ends of tbe nation after returning from that captivity in deut 4:25,26; 31:29; 32:20,29 and through Jesus the new prophet as mentiined in deut 18:15-19 & Acts 3:22-24.

So, just as any great tribulation such that the land/nation of Isral had ever seen (nor would ever be) had to be fulfilled within the confines of time of that nation (dan 12:1,2) So also can there be no restoration of the mosaic covt nation or return from CAPTIVITY since that former covt is dead.

Tey would return to the land in preparation for the fulfilling of the seed promised to come through Eve, the new prophet of deut 18, Shiloh of Gen 49:10; The Messiah, the 'new covt of deut 30:6-14, and "the covt of dan 9:27.

A 483 yr interjection was given between vs 5 & 6 of deut 30.

Your hermeneutics are a joke.

This covt had been what the faithful had been lookin for since eden.

Your stance and doctrine isn't worth more lf my or anyone elses time.

 

[ebedmelech]

Oh right, you're an Israelite I forgot.

Lol

That's right...because I belong to Christ...which means I am Abraham's seed, and an heir according to THE PROMISE, which is Christ.

Something you can't see.

 

[Notrash]

Thank you for your admission, even though it was only covert, that you have no answer for these hard, cold, facts.

I don't have interest BW. I've played those 'this has never been fulfilled" games with you and others before. The response is genuine.


I live in the new heavens & new Jerusalem, &, am with my bretheren and sisters the new ear

 

[Notrash]

That's right...because I belong to Christ...which means I am Abraham's seed, and an heir according to THE PROMISE, which is Christ.

Something you can't see.

Amen

 

[Old Timer]

That's right...because I belong to Christ...which means I am Abraham's seed, and an heir according to THE PROMISE, which is Christ.

Something you can't see.

Oh right.. so that means all Gentiles are now Israelites in Christ, regardless of the truth which plainly states that there is neither Jew nor Greek..

Then again it's obvious that the truth means absolutely nothing to you. If it did, you'd agree with it.

Simple as that.

 

[Old Timer]

And everyone has heard the preterist lie that Christ came in a cloud formation (LOL) in 70AD..

Some are just duped much easier than others.

 

[Biblewriter]

I don't have interest BW. I've played those 'this has never been fulfilled" games with you and others before. The response is genuine.


I live in the new heavens & new Jerusalem, &, am with my bretheren and sisters the new ear

You don't "have interest" is the conclusive proof that your doctrines are false to the core, because you are too interested in trying to prove the scriptures mean things they do not say, and do not mean what they do say.

 

[Biblewriter]

Well...it's typical dispensational eschatology.

You really have to contort the scriptures for "the Assyrian" to be a future thing. All you need do is read Micah's opening to his prophecy...Micah 1:1:
The word of the Lord which came to Micah of Moresheth in the days of Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.
From what Micah has just said, as well as who he said his prophecy concerns, to go then and say this is a future event when Assyria dispersed Samaria, and Judah is going into captivity...is just bad exegesis...BAD!

BW and I have gone around about Assyria in Isaiah 10 even though its very clear Isaiah is speking of the things that happened in 2 Kings 15-17. Isaiah even talks about it in Isaiah 8:7:
7 “Now therefore, behold, the Lord is about to bring on them the strong and abundant waters of the Euphrates, Even the king of Assyria and all his glory; And it will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks.

You can't miss the language of what's going on! Assyria is the instrument of God's judgment in the entire region!

There are few facts of history that are more absolutely established than Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah. We do not have Medieval copies of ancient documents about it. We have the actual original documents themselves, pressed into clay and fired into terra-cotta. These documents clearly show that Sennacherib followed an entirely different path from the one defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. This is so absolutely established that historians who imagine, like you, that Isaiah was speaking if Scnnacherib, mocked about how badly he missed this one. The Bible also clearly says that Sennacherib never even came to Jerusalem, and when he sent his army there, they came from an entirely different direction that the path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32.

Acrheologists, although they have found extensive of the Assyrian presence in southern Judea, have never found anything Assyrian in the area named in Isaiah 10:28-32. And the Isaiah scroll of the Dead Sea scrolls, which were written long after the time of Sennacherib, but whose writers would have clearly known the history of their own nation, quotes Isaiah 10:28-32 and says, "this refers to the last days."

So It could hardly me more absolutely proved that Sennacherib did not fulfill the prophecies of Isaiah 10.

And neither ancient Israel nor ancient Judah ever made an attack upon Assyria, as explicitly stated in Micah 5.

So it is utter nonsense to claim that these prophesies were speaking of the ancient Assyrian attacks.

You are right that we have been through this before, and you tried to gloss over this abundant proof as if is did not exist. But I did not let you then, And will not let you now.

It has been conclusively proved that neither Isaiah 10 nor Micah 5 have been fulfilled, even yet.

 

[ebedmelech]

There are few facts of history that are more absolutely established than Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah. We do not have Medieval copies of ancient documents about it. We have the actual original documents themselves, pressed into clay and fired into terra-cotta. These documents clearly show that Sennacherib followed an entirely different path from the one defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. This is so absolutely established that historians who imagine, like you, that Isaiah was speaking if Scnnacherib, mocked about how badly he missed this one. The Bible also clearly says that Sennacherib never even came to Jerusalem, and when he sent his army there, they came from an entirely different direction that the path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32.

Acrheologists, although they have found extensive of the Assyrian presence in southern Judea, have never found anything Assyrian in the area named in Isaiah 10:28-32. And the Isaiah scroll of the Dead Sea scrolls, which were written long after the time of Sennacherib, but whose writers would have clearly known the history of their own nation, quotes Isaiah 10:28-32 and says, "this refers to the last days."

So It could hardly me more absolutely proved that Sennacherib did not fulfill the prophecies of Isaiah 10.

And neither ancient Israel nor ancient Judah ever made an attack upon Assyria, as explicitly stated in Micah 5.

So it is utter nonsense to claim that these prophesies were speaking of the ancient Assyrian attacks.

You are right that we have been through this before, and you tried to gloss over this abundant proof as if is did not exist. But I did not let you then, And will not let you now.

It has been conclusively proved that neither Isaiah 10 nor Micah 5 have been fulfilled, even yet.

Archeologist have also found proof of a flood, but they haven't found the ark, yet we as Christians believe the flood happened just as the scriptures say.

Now let's look at what you said above. When we read the scriptures we find the scriptures said that Assyria besieged Samaria for 3 years.

This then is the folly of your assertion. Assyria then goes and invades Judah but because of Hezekiah's reforms turning the people to God...God doesn't allow Judah to fall. The scripture makes it plain Assyria controlled and took the whole region.

This isn't rocket science...there's MORE than enough proof that this is what Micah and Isaiah where speaking of.

 

[Biblewriter]

So here you agree that jer 31, Dan 30: 6-14 & similar words in Ez 36/37 all speak of the same thing.

No I did not agree with this at all You changed what I said from Deut 30:1-10 to Deut 30 :6-14. Although you, by a typo, chanced Deut to Dan.)

And most would say and agree that jer 31 is referring to the new covt wrought through Christ.

Are you seriously claiming that this is speaking of the church?

2 Thus says the LORD: "The people who survived the sword Found grace in the wilderness-- Israel, when I went to give him rest."
3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel! You shall again be adorned with your tambourines, And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.
5 You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria; The planters shall plant and eat them as ordinary food.
6 For there shall be a day When the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim, 'Arise, and let us go up to Zion, To the LORD our God.' "
7 For thus says the LORD: "Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O LORD, save Your people, The remnant of Israel!'
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, And gather them from the ends of the earth, Among them the blind and the lame, The woman with child And the one who labors with child, together; A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping, And with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters, In a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.
10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.'
11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, And ransomed him from the hand of one stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, Streaming to the goodness of the LORD-- For wheat and new wine and oil, For the young of the flock and the herd; Their souls shall be like a well-watered garden, And they shall sorrow no more at all.
13 "Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, And the young men and the old, together; For I will turn their mourning to joy, Will comfort them, And make them rejoice rather than sorrow.
14 I will satiate the soul of the priests with abundance, And My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, says the LORD."
Jeremiah 31:2-14

There can be no doubt that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks of Jesus. But verses 16 and 17 do not:

16 Thus says the LORD: "Refrain your voice from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, And they shall come back from the land of the enemy.
17 There is hope in your future, says the LORD, That your children shall come back to their own border.
Jeremiah 31:16-17
Nor do verses 18:25, for there is no way to even pretend that the church was ever called either Ephraem of Jusah.

18 "I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself: 'You have chastised me, and I was chastised, Like an untrained bull; Restore me, and I will return, For You are the LORD my God.
19 Surely, after my turning, I repented; And after I was instructed, I struck myself on the thigh; I was ashamed, yes, even humiliated, Because I bore the reproach of my youth.'
20 Is Ephraim My dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For though I spoke against him, I earnestly remember him still; Therefore My heart yearns for him; I will surely have mercy on him, says the LORD.
21 "Set up signposts, Make landmarks; Set your heart toward the highway, The way in which you went. Turn back, O virgin of Israel, Turn back to these your cities.
22 How long will you gad about, O you backsliding daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing in the earth-- A woman shall encompass a man."
23 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "They shall again use this speech in the land of Judah and in its cities, when I bring back their captivity: 'The LORD bless you, O home of justice, and mountain of holiness!'
24 And there shall dwell in Judah itself, and in all its cities together, farmers and those going out with flocks.
25 For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul."
Jeremiah 31:18-25

Nor are verses 26-30 about the church:

26 After this I awoke and looked around, and my sleep was sweet to me.
27 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that as I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to throw down, to destroy, and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
Jeremiah 31:26-30

The new covenant specified in verses 31-34 are based on the work of Christ, but this scripture explicitly says this covenant will be with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah."

You twist the scriptures to mean (even though they never say it) that "Israel" means "the church." But there is no way to even pretend that "Judah" means "the church."

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Jeremiah 31:31-34
And there is no way to even pretend that the final section of this prophecy either refers to the church or has been fulfilled.

35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever."
37 Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD.
38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."
Jeremiah 31:35-40
This final verse is conclusive proof that this prophecy is not speaking of the ancient return from Babylon. For after that return Jerusalem, and indeed the whole land of Judea, was both plucked up and thrown down again, not just once, but repeatedly. But this prophecy explicitly says that after the prophesied return "It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

I am not going to waste my time answering the rest of your cavils. For that is all they are. You caim that Israel has been given up forever. But God said, in this same Jeremiah 31:

37 Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD.
Jeremiah 31:37

 

[7sForDays]

Archeologist have also found proof of a flood, but they haven't found the ark

Im familiar with the structure found on Mt. Ararat that has the exact dimensions of the Ark, as well as a grid shaped pattern that consists of man made iron fittings.

While I wont say that it is definitely the ark, it sure seems odd that its sitting in the place it was told and has the dimensions of the Ark in the bible.


Do you believe in coincidence?

 

[Interplanner]

BW you are missing the pure joy of Paul in the NT about the seed of Israel. He and the NT are not overlooking Jer 31. Christ was the seed. All those, of any background, who are in him are the ones countless as the sands of the shore.