Sabbatarianism and the 1689 Confession: Were the Particular Baptists wrong?

[BobRyan]

You and I BOTH know that those here who are at war with God's Ten Commandments will also agree that the term "Sabbath" as used in the Bible in the NT in that post - all refer to the seventh day of the week and not week-day 1. This is not because they all "read Ellen White" even though you have sought to "imagine for us" that Ellen White is to blame for all the problems of the BCF when it comes to point 7.

This is why the "Larry rant" does not work for ProgMonk.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here we find Larry unwittingly making the case for point 7 in the 7point list of post [FONT=&quot]#2[/FONT]. (That the 4th commandment is not abolished but rather "bent")

Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

Even in the Larry rant posts - the point is raised that point 7 in the list claims a "change" that the still binding, still applicable 4th commandment "Was changed to point to week-day-1".

Thus the 7 point list.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].

Where even Larry cannot bring himself to imagine that the word "Sabbath" in the NT means "week day 1". An obvious point that we can see in Acts 13, Acts 15, Acts 17, Acts 18...
[/FONT][/FONT]
in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Even in the Larry rant posts - the point is raised that point 7 in the list claims a "change" that the still binding, still applicable 4th commandment "Was changed to point to week-day-1".

You call it a "rant," but you know good and well that your entire deceitful and deceptive emphasis on the Ten Commandments is to divert attention away from Christianity's central point: The Resurrection. That is why you do not address the extremely-embarrassing and shocking Ellen White quote that clearly makes the Ten Commandments of FAR greater importance than anything Jesus Christ has accomplished. Adventists simply worship the Ten Commandments and Ellen White. Ellen White and the Ten Commandments surpass by many vast magnitudes of importance than Jesus Christ. Do you realize that you have never written a post that emphasizes the Resurrection and the Gospel? You have written literally thousands of Sabbath spam posts but NOTHING on the Resurrection!

You know that at best in Adventist thinking, Jesus Christ is grudgingly given a little credit for the rudimentary start of the process of restoring the Sabbath. That is all the Cross and Resurrection accomplished. A tiny fraction of the work to restore the Sabbath. And you know that Adventism teaches that each individual SDA earns Salvation to the extent that they have contributed to the restoration of the Sabbath to its central primacy. And then keep it perfectly. The Resurrection accomplished nearly nothing.


I am glad the following authorities stand for precisely the OPPOSITE of what is deceitfully-misrepresented by the Sabbath Spam Posters. All of these authorities actually RENOUNCE 7th Day Sabbath Keeping and support the Christian view that has been condemning the Ebionite and Judaizing heresies for the last 2,000 years. The Sabbath spammers are so embarrassed and humiliated by their own "Prophet" and her unbiblical "vision" about the 4th Commandment that they deceitfully use the following sources instead. The following sources would be horrified and outraged to know that they were being used in such a deceptive manner:

Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week — the Lord’s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist

 

[BobRyan]

You call it a "rant," but you know good and well that your entire deceitful...<obligatory rant deleted here>http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Articles/Miscelanous/WhyIAmABaptist.htm

Even in your own rant-style of posting you can't bring yourself to deny the point raised.

You yourself will admit that the term Sabbath used in the NT (and seen in Acts 13, 15, 17, 18...) refers to the seventh day of the week.

A point that does not fit with "The Change" language used in the BCF and WCF for the term "Sabbath" bent to apply to week-day-1 at the cross.

That is why you war against it -- in almost every post (and yet inexplicably) "as if" that helps ProgMonk's defense of the 4th commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Even in your own rant-style of posting you can't bring yourself to deny the point raised.

I do not buy into your deceptive and deceitful attempt at diverting attention away from the Resurrection. You try to frame the debate on your own terms, and away from Christianity's central doctrine. Sorry, but your dishonest Ebionite/Judaizing heresy was emphatically thrown on the trash heap by Christianity 2,000 years ago. Age has not improved your anti-Christian views one bit.

I am glad the following authorities stand for precisely the OPPOSITE of what is deceitfully-misrepresented by the Sabbath Spam Posters. All of these authorities actually RENOUNCE 7th Day Sabbath Keeping and support the Christian view that has been condemning the Ebionite and Judaizing heresies for the last 2,000 years. The Sabbath spammers are so embarrassed and humiliated by their own "Prophet" and her unbiblical "vision" about the 4th Commandment that they deceitfully use the following sources instead. The following sources would be horrified and outraged to know that they were being used in such a deceptive manner:

Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week &#8212; the Lord&#8217;s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord&#8217;s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord&#8217;s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist[/ur

 

[BobRyan]

You quote Catholic sources - as if you never read them. Yet they make "the 7 point list" you are so at war against.

Originally Posted by LarryP2

CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

​

You quote Catholic sources? They sure do love those SEVEN points from post #2

Wonderful! Me too!

===========================================

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29


(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.




Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.






The two views state their positions as &#8220;The Catholic church fully endorses the Sabbath commandment as edited by the Catholic Church" vs "the Catholic church fully endorsed the Sabbath commandment as worded by God at Sinai"
.

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".


page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"



====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

[FONT=&quot]====================end quote
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

duplicate

 

[LarryP2]

This is why the "Larry rant" does not work for ProgMonk.

in Christ,

Bob

Okay then, lets get some questions out of the way, how about it? Once I get some answers on the facts that you say you want to discuss, then we can have a solid basis for some agreement on some critical facts. I have helpfully provided some "Yes" and "No" answers, because I know how you want to wiggle your way out of the quotes and avoid the extremely distressing implications. .So here goes:

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath?: “The holy Sabbath looked glorious- a halo of glory was all around it." ________YES___________NO

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO.
“I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious[bless and do not curse] a halo of glory was all around it."

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

 

[from scratch]

Even in your own rant-style of posting you can't bring yourself to deny the point raised.

You yourself will admit that the term Sabbath used in the NT (and seen in Acts 13, 15, 17, 18...) refers to the seventh day of the week.

A point that does not fit with "The Change" language used in the BCF and WCF for the term "Sabbath" bent to apply to week-day-1 at the cross.

That is why you war against it -- in almost every post (and yet inexplicably) "as if" that helps ProgMonk's defense of the 4th commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

In the NT the Sabbath is a day and not a commandment.

 

[BobRyan]

In the NT the Sabbath is a day and not a commandment.

You dodged the question. In the NT is the term "Sabbath" a reference to "week day 1" or not?? This thread on the BCF claims it was bent to point to Week day 1 - by NT sources. (Staying on topic for a change )

Recall - the 7 point list of post 2 (in this case - the 7th point).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Okay then, lets get some questions out of the way,

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church&#8217;s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

No - they simply prove that your own arguments against the TEN Commandments are flawed even by pro-Sunday source standards.

This part is incredibly obvious - so it is driving you to derail the subject.

that is the "easy part".

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church&#8217;s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

No - I have quoted only bible sources (And the BCF and WCF and other pro-Sunday sources obviously do not quote Ellen White to argue the Bible point that the 4th commandment is still applicable to the saints).

She herself was slow to accept this Bible doctrine as it was first presented by fellow Adventists. Many actual SDAs know that - as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Keachian]

You dodged the question. In the NT is the term "Sabbath" a reference to "week day 1" or not?? This thread on the BCF claims it was bent to point to Week day 1 - by NT sources. (Staying on topic for a change )

Recall - the 7 point list of post 2 (in this case - the 7th point).

in Christ,

Bob

No, that's not what the argument is, the argument is The Lord's Day is the first day of the week and from that whether it is the right and proper day on which to worship, both I and Larry have expressed that the reason we believe that it is the first day of the week is bound up in the Resurrection, this is also the position of the BCF and WCF and probably every other "Sunday-source" you could throw out argues, Creation and Covenant for the Christian are found in the Resurrection not at Sinai, this is what we feel you are denying, this is why we cannot agree with you.

 

[BobRyan]

No, that's not what the argument is, the argument is The Lord's Day is the first day of the week .

In section 22 of the BCF the argument is that the STill binding FOURTH commandment is "Changed" to point to week-day 1 (presumably by NT authors if the doctrine is to survive sola scriptura testing).

As we already saw with [FONT=&quot]post #152

[/FONT]He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week ("the seventh day is the Sabbath" Ex 20:11), and from the resurrection of Christ it (the 4th commandment - weekly Sabbath) was changed to the first day of the week

The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their own works

(Or did you also want to claim that the "Lord's Day was CHANGED" to week-day-1 ?? not just the 4th Commandment)

I have to admit - I am more than a little interested in how ProgMonk might like to turn this.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

duplicate

 

[LarryP2]

My aren't you being particularly slippery and deceptive today! You have made worship of the 4th Commandment, blatantly in Opposition Christianity's focus on the Resurrection. You need to honestly disclose your sources.

I will post the questions again, and let's see if we can get some answers here....

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church&#8217;s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church&#8217;s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White&#8217;s views on the Sabbath?: &#8220;The holy Sabbath looked glorious- a halo of glory was all around it." ________YES___________NO

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church&#8217;s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White&#8217;s views on the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO.
&#8220;I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious[bless and do not curse] a halo of glory was all around it."

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church&#8217;s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________

Its just remarkable and amazing that such anti-Christian heresy coupled with so much willful deception is allowed on a Christian site. One of the things I think we CAN agree on is that NONE of the alleged "sources" for your 4th Commandment worship were available to, or quoted by your nutso founding Prophet. I did some searches last night, and I can find NOTHING that indicates that ANY of your "sources" had the slightest effect whatsoever on your Church's foundation of 4th Commandment worship, and outright rejection and emphatic rejection of the Resurrection. You deceptively-use respectable Christian sources to deceitfully disguise the guts of your recruiting effort. You "sink the hook" in using respectable Christians, and the insanity of the Investigative Judgment, Salvation by Sabbath Keeping and Vegetarianism and the Insane Prophet are disclosed later, right?

 

[BobRyan]

Okay then, lets get some questions out of the way,

...

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO[/quote]

No - they simply prove that your own arguments against the TEN Commandments are flawed even by pro-Sunday source standards.

This part is incredibly obvious - so it is driving you to derail the subject.

that is the "easy part".

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

No - I have quoted only bible sources (And the BCF and WCF and other pro-Sunday sources obviously do not quote Ellen White to argue the Bible point that the 4th commandment is still applicable to the saints).

She herself was slow to accept this Bible doctrine as it was first presented by fellow Adventists. Many actual SDAs know that - as it turns out.

My aren't you being particularly slippery ...<factless rant deleted here to spare the readers>

Whereupon you repeat the questions while ignoring the answers.

As if circling back to quote you - is the best response you have to the answers given. Be that as it may - it does not work in normal conversation.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

...



Whereupon you repeat the questions while ignoring the answers.

Which "answers?" The ones you dishonestly cited yesterday, falsely inferring that Protestant preachers and Catholics supported your heretical anti-Christian Sabbath-Product&#8482;®©?

Or the one you gave today where you deceitfully-stated that Rachel Oakes convinced the entire Seventh Day Adventist Church to adopt a Non-Seventh Day Baptist, ant-Christian, heretical Sabbath-Product&#8482;®©? Or the ones you gave as a way of continuously-dodging the obvious REAL source of your Church's horrifyingly-vile, stomach-churning anti-Christian Christian falsehoods that smear Christians for celebrating the Resurrection on Sunday?

Those Answers?

 

[BobRyan]

Which "answers?"... <factless rant starting here... deleted to spare the reader>

hint: #196

 

[LarryP2]

hint: #196

We will get to the bottom of this incredibly-deceitful and evasive response with some easily answered questions about whether in fact the prior post was indeed "factless."

Did the Protestant preachers and Catholics sources that you have spammed on every single one of your hundreds of Sabbath posts agree with the Seventh Day Adventist Church's Sabbath Doctrine? Just Check on the appropriate Box.

____YES___NO




Is that Sabbath that the Seventh Day Adventist Church keeps the same in purpose and doctrine as the one that Seventh Day Baptist Rachel Oakes kept?

____YES___NO

Is Rachel Oakes the source of the Seventh Day Adventist's Church's position that the Catholic Church is the "harlot of Babylon" and the "Mark of the Beast" is Christian Sunday Worship?

____YES___NO

Is Rachel Oakes the source of the Seventh Day Adventist Church's position that the Protestant Churches are the "Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon?"

____YES___NO

Just to lighten things up a bit, you ought to turn to an interesting competition where the "winner" is the one who can come up with the most repulsive and insane quote of Ellen White's. And we should all have some sympathy for BobRyan and his valiant efforts to dodge and deflect away any association with this incredibly vile, dreadful, deplorable, and despicable woman, and blame the entire aberrant and heretical Sabbath Doctrine onto an unsuspecting Seventh Day Baptist woman, the Bible, Protestant church officials and the Catholic Church.

My favorite one is where she advised a child-molesting Preacher who committed outrageous acts of forcible sodomy on a very young girl to "keep it quiet." And condemned the girl for cooperating in the experience taken verbatum out of Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, p. 68:

"Any youth who would submit her body to be handled by a man is in no way fit for the kingdom of heaven."

Additionally, quite possibly the most vile quote in religious history, Ellen White here denounces the girl in even more stringent terms:

"If I were forced to choose whether these children should be exposed to these temptations, educated in these evil practices, or be cut down by death, I would say, Let them die in their innocency."

And here is her advise to the Molesting Preacher to just energetically sweep the whole incident under the rug:

"You ask me if you shall make a public confession. I say, No. Do not dishonor the Master by making public the fact that one ministering in the Word could be guilty of such sin as you have committed. It would be a disgrace to the ministry. Do not give publicity to this matter by any means. It would do injustice to the whole cause of God. It would create impure thoughts in the minds of many even to hear these things repeated. Defile not the lips even by communicating this to your wife, to make her ashamed and bow her head in sorrow"

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/e...epulsive-ellen-white-quote?xg_source=activity

Of course, notwithstanding Bob's strenuous denials, we already know that this truly-hideous woman is the source of Adventism's anti-Christian Sabbath Doctrine.

 

[from scratch]

Here we find Larry unwittingly making the case for point 7 in the 7point list of post [FONT=&quot]#2[/FONT]. (That the 4th commandment is not abolished but rather "bent")



Even in the Larry rant posts - the point is raised that point 7 in the list claims a "change" that the still binding, still applicable 4th commandment "Was changed to point to week-day-1".

Thus the 7 point list.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].

Where even Larry cannot bring himself to imagine that the word "Sabbath" in the NT means "week day 1". An obvious point that we can see in Acts 13, Acts 15, Acts 17, Acts 18...
[/FONT][/FONT]
in Christ,

Bob

I read the quotes to say the 1st day of the week is the Christian Sabbath. You say its the 7th day. And your so called Sunday sources support the 7th day. How?