Sabbatarianism and the 1689 Confession: Were the Particular Baptists wrong?

[Keachian]

First and foremost, the SDAs got their Sabbath keeping ideas from the Seventh Day Baptists. However, I believe the 7th Day Baptists would be horrified at how something relatively innocent has turned into a horrifying mutation.

First and foremost, the 7th Day Baptists are strongly-Trinitarian and would never spam an entire thread. Second, from what they tell me, their Sabbath is not a Salvation issue, nor is it an eschatology issue. With SDAs, it is both. SDAs clearly advocate a partial atonement theory that is finished by the individual keeping the Sabbath perfectly (at least their definition of "perfect.") As well as the Investigative Judgment doctrine which is unbiblical at best, and at worst, is openly anti-Gospel. The whole thing is topped with a toxic "frosting" of extremely-virulent and hateful anti-Catholicism. I have my mixed feelings about Catholicism, but always leap to their defense when they are attacked with the absurd SDA arguments.

A Baptist website spells out succinctly what is really behind the obnoxious Adventist spam threads:

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath."

Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist

That is the consistent Baptist view, whether they be the First- or Seventh-day variant. That is precisely my objection.

In fact, in my opinion, the differences between 7th day Baptists and the rest of "Baptist-hood" is marginal, if that. It boils down to the day of worship. If all Sabbath advocates were as honest 7th Day Baptists, I wouldn't be on here arguing against it. With 7DB's, I'm like "Oh well, whatever fries your onions." They remind me of the Ethiopian Orthodox, who have kept BOTH Saturday and Sunday for about the last 2,000 years. Although they have always believed that Sunday was priority, in light of the Resurrection. Which means "We keep Saturday too, unless we forget to. Or was that Sunday?"

You ask cult experts about 7DB's and you get "Who?" "What?" Just another Orthodox Baptist flavor, with slightly more color than normal.

Yes, although I don't agree with the history presented in the link for the Baptist movement, landmarkism gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[LarryP2]

Yes, although I don't agree with the history presented in the link for the Baptist movement, landmarkism gives me the heebie-jeebies.

"Landmarkism?"

 

[Keachian]

"Landmarkism?"

The belief popular in some Baptist circles that Baptist thought and practice can be traced back through History. While I would believe that Baptist thought and practice is closest to the original Church, I would point to Episcopal accretion as to how the Church morphed into the 3rd and 4th Century Church.

 

[from scratch]

Yes, that is right. But for SDAs, it is neither "taking the day off," nor is it "observing the Sabbath."

It is something they have just made up out of thin air.

Many unruly and disobedient Catholics insist on going to mass on Saturdays for crying out loud! What is the world coming to! Memo to the Pope: "Your valued-position as "harlot of Babylon" is on shaky ground with this Saturday mass business. Please see the Devil for further instructions on how to preserve this valuable perk." In my town, I would say it is about 50/50 (guessing from the number of cars parked by the local Cathedral).

Its about religion and not relationship.

I define religion as man trying to manipulate God for personal consumption.

 

[Keachian]

Its about religion and not relationship.

I define religion as man trying to manipulate God for personal consumption.

I would prefer the term Witchcraft or Magic for that as Religion should properly be defined as a body of beliefs and practice's.

 

[BobRyan]

And I thought the dark ages were essentially the times (under the Law) before Jesus came and freed them from the medieval practices of the Law .

God's Law is hated by many - so you are certainly not alone.

But as we see in the case of even well-known pro-Sunday sources below (which includes the BCF that is the subject of this thread as it turns out) - not all Christians hate the Law of God.

Yes you hate God's Law for sure pretending it is holy

I think that even you will admit that your statement above shows a strong dislike for the Law of God as we find it in scripture.

This is what you said -

And I thought the dark ages were essentially the times (under the Law) before Jesus came and freed them from the medieval practices of the Law .

your efforts to pretend that those who affirm the Law of God are also claiming to join you in that regard -- leave a lot of room lacking by way of evidence.

Wait up there, Bob. Who hates God's law?

A quote you left out turns out to be "instructive" when answering your own question.

And I thought the dark ages were essentially the times (under the Law) before Jesus came and freed them from the medieval practices of the Law .

 

[BobRyan]

ALL of his "Sunday Keeping" sources agree: Christians keep the 4th Commandment by worshiping on Sunday. .

Which I addressed in post ... #2 of this thread. So when you "circle back" to the question answered in post - #2 - you are in fact asking that we take a look at that answer -- once again. Click it.

Next.

The other thing that is "instructive" for those at war with God's Ten Commandments is that these sources affirm the continued binding nature of God's Ten Commandments for the saints today.

As noted in the the post below directed to ProgMonk.

=========================================

Does the Confession state that the Believer need do the Law? I wouldn't say that that is the doctrine expressed.

Can you say that while actually quoting the document in the section dealing with the Christian keeping the Law??

The Actual BCF -- (or is it the "much to be avoided BCF" Progmonk??)

====================================
[FONT=&quot]As modified by C.H. Spurgeon[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Section 19[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]. The Law of God [/FONT]

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

===================================

or was that just a gimmick on your part?

Recall that you are the one that asked us to look at this.

How sad that I alone am quoting this section, highlighting it, underlining it, defending it. I don't think that C.H. Spurgeon himself would have left this to someone else to defend.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Which I addressed in post ... #2 of this thread. So when you "circle back" to the question answered in post - #2 - you are in fact asking that we take a look at that answer -- once again. Click it.

Next.

The other thing that is "instructive" for those at war with God's Ten Commandments is that these sources affirm the continued binding nature of God's Ten Commandments for the saints today.

As noted in the the post below directed to ProgMonk.

=========================================



Can you say that while actually quoting the document in the section dealing with the Christian keeping the Law??



or was that just a gimmick on your part?

Recall that you are the one that asked us to look at this.

How sad that I alone am quoting this section, highlighting it, underlining it, defending it. I don't think that C.H. Spurgeon himself would have left this to someone else to defend.

in Christ,

Bob

Dodge ball. Evasion. The sources you cite absolutely and unequivocally DENY your idea of keeping the Jewish Sabbath. Insofar as they claim they obey the 4th Commandment, it is a RADICAL, 180 degree different interpretation than yours. They completely reject your peddling of the obsolete Jewish Sabbath Day. Your idea of the 4th Commandment and theirs could not be more different.

Second, you deceitfully hide the "small print" about what your relentless Sabbath Spam means in practice: The anti-Gospel and anti-Resurrection "Investigative Judgment" that determines Salvation based on perfect Sabbath Keeping.

Your use of source material simply could not be more flagrantly dishonest and willfully deceitful.

 

[Sophrosyne]

God's Law is hated by many - so you are certainly not alone.

But as we see in the case of even well-known pro-Sunday sources below (which includes the BCF that is the subject of this thread as it turns out) - not all Christians hate the Law of God.



I think that even you will admit that your statement above shows a strong dislike for the Law of God as we find it in scripture.

This is what you said -



your efforts to pretend that those who affirm the Law of God are also claiming to join you in that regard -- leave a lot of room lacking by way of evidence.




A quote you left out turns out to be "instructive" when answering your own question.

Quoting someone multiple times in the same post and replying to them multiple times in the same post is just plain rude, but then I wouldn't expect someone who breaks God's Holy Laws to take the higher ground when it comes to behavior here.

 

[BobRyan]

ALL of his "Sunday Keeping" sources agree: Christians keep the 4th Commandment by worshiping on Sunday. .

Which I addressed in post ... #2 of this thread. So when you "circle back" to the question answered in post - #2 - you are in fact asking that we take a look at that answer -- once again. Click it.

Next.

The other thing that is "instructive" for those at war with God's Ten Commandments is that these sources affirm the continued binding nature of God's Ten Commandments for the saints today.

As noted in the the post below directed to ProgMonk.

=========================================

Does the Confession state that the Believer need do the Law? I wouldn't say that that is the doctrine expressed.

Can you say that while actually quoting the document in the section dealing with the Christian keeping the Law??

Dodge ball. Evasion.

Until you actually read the post above and the content of section 19 as already posted.

Does the Confession state that the Believer need do the Law? I wouldn't say that that is the doctrine expressed.

This is where it paid Progmonk to not actually quote section 19 of his own document - in his response.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

ALL of his "Sunday Keeping" sources agree: Christians keep the 4th Commandment by worshiping on Sunday. .

Which I addressed in post ... #2 of this thread. So when you "circle back" to the question answered in post - #2 - you are in fact asking that we take a look at that answer -- once again. Click it.

Next.

The other thing that is "instructive" for those at war with God's Ten Commandments is that these sources affirm the continued binding nature of God's Ten Commandments for the saints today.

Dodge ball. Evasion. The sources you cite absolutely and unequivocally DENY your idea of keeping the Jewish Sabbath. .

Again you circle back to the point that is fully answered in post 2 -- as if you had not read the answer. Apparently you want the answer posted again - not simply linked.

How "instructive".

ok fine - -here is the point your comment keeps begging to have posted.

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Not sure why you don't simply follow the posted link and the respond with something to carry your argument beyond that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Which I addressed in post ... #2 of this thread.

Actually you HAVEN'T appropriately "addressed" this situation. You are deceitfully using sources from organizations that have unequivocally rejected your views of the 4th Commandment and your insistence on commemorating the Jewish Sabbath instead of the Resurrection. That is an utterly fraudulent and deceptive use of their statements.

You can only "address" the situation by removing those sources from your Sabbath Spam posts.

 

[BobRyan]

Again you circle back to the point that is fully answered in post 2 -- as if you had not read the answer. Apparently you want the answer posted again - not simply linked.

How "instructive".

ok fine - -here is the point your comment keeps begging to have posted.

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Not sure why you don't simply follow the posted link and the respond with something to carry your argument beyond that point.

Actually you HAVEN'T appropriately "addressed" this situation. <obligatory factless rant deleted here..> .

Still waiting for a response to the points raised.

While we wait -

Here are the points the BCF and WCF make in similar fashion regarding God's TEN Commandments still binding on the saints - #67

A point already addressed here regarding the fact that I agree with them on 6 out of 7 of their main points--

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Still waiting for a response to the points raised.

While we wait -

Here are the points the BCF and WCF make in similar fashion regarding God's TEN Commandments still binding on the saints - #67

Here's my response. I have direct quotes from each and every single source you list as supporting your Sabbath Spam posts. Each and every single one of them advocate Sunday worship in place of 7th Day Sabbath worship. ALL of them denounce the Sabbath as an obsolete and defunct day. By using these sources deceitfully to support your contention that Christians should keep the Jewish Sabbath, you have repeatedly committed a massive fraud and deception. It is an act of continual dishonesty for you to deceitfully represent that ANY of the sources support your contention that the 7th Day Sabbath is required for Christians:


Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week &#8212; the Lord&#8217;s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord&#8217;s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord&#8217;s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

 

[BobRyan]

Here's my response. I have direct quotes from each and every single source you list as supporting your Sabbath.

hmm...

How did they stack up to the actual facts in "post 2"???

==========================

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.
==============================================
[/FONT][/FONT]
Attention to detail is an important skill. They appear to agree with my 7 points listed above.

(This was the easy part. )

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

hmm...

How did they stack up to the actual facts in "post 2"???

They "stack up" to show that your Sabbath Spam posts are a willful fraud and that nobody should believe any source that you post without double checking that it says what you say it does. Furthermore, any interpretation of any scripture that you cite while this intentional deceit is ongoing should be disregarded.

 

[BobRyan]

They "stack up" to show that your Sabbath Spam posts are a willful fraud <obligatory factless rant deleted here>.

I have been factual -- you simply resort to vitriol and rant as if that will substitute well for fact.

Case in point -- Here is what D.L. Moody actually said --

Here is an example of one of the "bend the commandment" but do not get rid of it - arguments.

=============================== D.L. Moody sermon on the TEN Commandments

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/FONT]

================== end quote

And here is my statement about the BCF, WCF and other sources such as D.L. Moody --

==========================

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.
==============================================

Turns out - that holds up.

(Attention to detail is an important skill in debate)
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[LarryP2]

Every time Moody refers to the Sabbath, he is referring to Sunday NOT the 7th Day Sabbath. Just more active deception and dishonesty to lure gullible Christians into your modern-day Judaizing/Ebionite heresy that has been unequivocally-rejected by Christianity for 2,000 years.

 

[Keachian]

Bob, the whole reason I deny your theonomic position from the basis of the Confession I confess is 21.1

The liberty which Christ has purchased for believers under the Gospel, lies in their freedom from the guilt of sin and the condemning wrath of God, from the rigours and curse of the law, and in their deliverance from this present evil world, from bondage to Satan, from dominion of sin, from the harm of afflictions, from the fear and sting of death, from the victory of the grave, and from everlasting damnation. – This liberty is also seen in their free access to God, and their ability to yield obedience to Him not out of slavish fear, but with childlike love and willing minds. All these freedoms were also experienced in substance by true believers under the Old Testament law, but for New Testament Christians this liberty is further enlarged, for they have freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law to which the Jewish church was subjected. They also have greater boldness of access to the throne of grace and fuller communications of the free Spirit of God than believers under the law normally experienced.​

This is the crux of the issue, obedience to the Law for you is at best theonomic and at worst salvific, for me it is at least theonomic but far more than that it points to Christ who is the hope of salvation, I have access to the throne of Grace through the indwelling spirit, you await for Christ to judge you and hope he will be merciful.

 

[BobRyan]

Every time Moody refers to the Sabbath, he is referring to Sunday NOT the 7th Day Sabbath. <obligatory factless rant deleted here> .

So oddly enough - once again you are making the point that I make in "post 2" of this thread

==========================

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.
==============================================

Why keep doing that???

Wouldn't you rather make "your point" mine???
[/FONT][/FONT]