A Pondering of the Peculiar (4)

[Subduction Zone]

No you're not. All those people can not read your mind. If something is hidden from them you are not accountable. You can lie all you want as long as you think no one knows the truth. You have no ultimate accountability.

Isaiah 47:10

You have trusted in your wickedness
and have said, ‘No one sees me.’
Your wisdom and knowledge seduced you
when you say to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.’

Evolution is a lie as its now being presented.

The belief that all the diversity of biological life, with its phenomenal complexity and highly ordered and structured system. To act as if it could simply appear out from nothing with the results we now witness to? To tell us it was caused by means of a long series of non-directed random actions which were made upon matter? Matter, which conveniently was 'just there' ... Is a big fat lie. Its a lie against logic. Its intellectual dishonesty. Its a lie one must crave to believe in in order to override the reality that stands like a rock before one's eyes. Too many lies must be interjected to make it work out. Too many denials.


You're not accountable. Its proven and made more than apparent by what and how you promote. What you want to get others to believe. Its propaganda.
​

And here is an example of a creationist not being honest. In two ways. First atheists have a much higher source of "ultimate accountability". We have ourselves. Creationists seem to think it is okay to lie as long as they are "lying for Jesus". It is Christian doctrine that if you repent of your sins you will be forgiven. Supposedly God hates all sins equally, no matter how small, so all you have to do is say "I'm sorry" and put a sad puppy dog look on your face and you are off the hook for your sins. No accountability. If a an atheist is caught lying he has to pay the penalty here and now.

So in that sense atheists have a much stronger sense of "ultimate accountability". They know if they are caught they will be punished. Christians believe they will be caught in all of their wrongs. They also believe they will be let off the hook. That means for them there is no "ultimate accountability".

Second you were not being honest about what evolution is. It is not the result of "a long series of non-directed random actions which were made upon matter". By mischaracterizing evolution when you should know better you are not telling the truth. Yes, evolution has some random elements in it. That does not mean the whole process is random. Why can't you argue honestly against evolution?

 

[Loudmouth]

No you're not.

Yes, I am. I just said I was.

Your level of denial is so high that you will deny something as obvious as the words people say.

 

[PsychoSarah]

No you're not. All those people can not read your mind. If something is hidden from them you are not accountable. You can lie all you want as long as you think no one knows the truth. You have no ultimate accountability.

Isaiah 47:10

You have trusted in your wickedness
and have said, ‘No one sees me.’
Your wisdom and knowledge seduced you
when you say to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.’

Evolution is a lie as its now being presented.

The belief that all the diversity of biological life, with its phenomenal complexity and highly ordered and structured system. To act as if it could simply appear out from nothing with the results we now witness to? To tell us it was caused by means of a long series of non-directed random actions which were made upon matter? Matter, which conveniently was 'just there' ... Is a big fat lie. Its a lie against logic. Its intellectual dishonesty. Its a lie one must crave to believe in in order to override the reality that stands like a rock before one's eyes. Too many lies must be interjected to make it work out. Too many denials.


You're not accountable. Its proven and made more than apparent by what and how you promote. What you want to get others to believe. Its propaganda.
​

Um, no, why would thinking we wouldn't be punished for lying make us any less accountable for it? We are still lying, and have to deal with the consequences that result. Why do I hear extremist people think that atheists abandon religion so that they can do whatever without any afterlife consequence? As if not believing in it would make it go away -_- were said afterlife to actually exist, anyways.

 

[HitchSlap]

Well, my pastor's wife has read it 35 times now, but then she hasn't deconverted yet.

I wonder what's keeping her?

Slow learner?

 

[GenemZ]

Of course. Much more so than Christians. At least according to their own belief systems. That is why it is so often necessary that atheists must remind creationists that they are lying.

For example the most common sort of lie that creationists practice is the quote mine, where quotes are taken out of context. What is sad is that they are taught to do this with their own Bible. If you have seen the claim of an estimate of 300 prophesies of Jesus that came true you would find that a huge number of those so called prophesies are simply quote mines of their own holy book. Now that should be blasphemy if anything is.

I have the same kind of problem with young earth creationists. I am not on their love list.

I am accountable for even what I think.

I know Jesus is real. Makes all the difference.

I was brought up a Jew. While growing up I did not attend any church to become brainwashed and indoctrinated into Christian doctrine. No brainwashing. What I thought of Jesus before my salvation some ununderstanding Christian would have said I blaspheme.

Sadly, I do not have your problem. For I know you will find a rationale to make yourself feel secure with what I just told you.

 

[GenemZ]

Um, no, why would thinking we wouldn't be punished for lying make us any less accountable for it? We are still lying, and have to deal with the consequences that result.

Some people lie to themselves and believe their own lies. Its a dream world existence. A dream world that they actually come to think is being realistic.

 

[bhsmte]

Some people lie to themselves and believe their own lies. Its a dream world existence. A dream world that they actually come to think is being realistic.

Your absolutely right. Some people lie to themselves because the other option is to acknowledge reality, which to some, is more painful than a comforting lie to themselves.

Of course, the people who utilize this technique, typically experience quite a bit of inner turmoil, because they must continuously lie to themselves to ward off the times they are presented with reality.

 

[GenemZ]

Of course, the people who utilize this technique, typically experience quite a bit of inner turmoil, because they must continuously lie to themselves to ward off the times they are presented with reality.

That was not the truth. People can become very comfortable with a lie. No turmoil. Only smugness.

 

[bhsmte]

That was not the truth. People can become very comfortable with a lie. No turmoil. Only smugness.

Disagree. Even those who get to a point of really believing their own lies, often encounter cognitive dissonance and that is not pleasant.

Only those who have significant mental illness, are 100% convinced of their own lies, to the point they don't experience cognitive dissonance.

 

[dad]

Before the prophesy was even discussed I tried to get you to commit as to what was a prophecy or not. "You will see a red car" is not a prophecy.


Tyre was attacked all of the time and defeated quite often. Waiting for someone else to defeat Tyre lowers that "prophesy" to a "you will see a red car" prophesy. With Tyre's location and source of riches it was obvious that it would be attacked again and again.

You lose either way with this situation. If you try to say the prophesy was fulfilled later you are saying that a prophesy predicted the obvious. That alone makes the so called prophesy worthless. If you admit that it applied to only Nebby then again you have a failed prophesy since he did not come close to defeating Tyre.

And even if I was so generous as to allow the later attackers to count, which they obviously didn't. Tyre kept coming back. Until their source of wealth did not matter any longer they were always a power to be considered. The island was never scraped bare. We can still see it today.

And now the show I was halfway watching is done too.

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that you think either was not fulfilled yet that should have been already? Chapter and verse.

 

[GenemZ]

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that you think either was not fulfilled yet that should have been already? Chapter and verse.

He is just repeating what he found on an anti-Bible webpage. You can link to the homepage by going to the link he gave and cutting off the modifier in the address.

 

[GenemZ]

I did not say that you said that. So it was not a strawman. I pointed out how the prophesy applied to Nebby and not to others.

What I am about to post is the reason why I try to avoid being rushed like you were pushing me to do.

Look here......

Ezekiel 26:1-3
​

In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word
of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, because Tyre said
about Jerusalem, ‘Good! The gateway to the peoples is
shattered. She has been turned over to me. I will be filled
now that she lies in ruins,’ therefore this is what the Lord
God says: See, I am against you, Tyre!I will raise up many
nations against you, just as the sea raises its waves.
​

That tells us what?

Those waves prophesied coming over Tyre spoke figuratively of the many nations that would come against Tyre. Not an actual ocean.

And that it would be many nations, not just Nebuchadnezzar, as you wish to lay claim to.

See, I am against you, Tyre! I will raise up many nations
against you, just as the sea raises its waves.
​

You are the one who conveniently disappears when it is time to discuss the details of the prophesy.

I was avoiding being rushed. Tried to oblige... But, now after some study have found what rushing would have distracted from.

Work with that, please.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have the same kind of problem with young earth creationists. I am not on their love list.

I am accountable for even what I think.

I know Jesus is real. Makes all the difference.

I was brought up a Jew. While growing up I did not attend any church to become brainwashed and indoctrinated into Christian doctrine. No brainwashing. What I thought of Jesus before my salvation some ununderstanding Christian would have said I blaspheme.

Sadly, I do not have your problem. For I know you will find a rationale to make yourself feel secure with what I just told you.

What problem do you think that I have?

The only problem I can think of is a severe dislike of dishonest people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What I am about to post is the reason why I try to avoid being rushed like you were pushing me to do.

Look here......

Ezekiel 26:1-3
​

In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word
of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, because Tyre said
about Jerusalem, ‘Good! The gateway to the peoples is
shattered. She has been turned over to me. I will be filled
now that she lies in ruins,’ therefore this is what the Lord
God says: See, I am against you, Tyre!I will raise up many
nations against you, just as the sea raises its waves.
​

That tells us what?

That you can't even keep track of your own claims?

You were the one who said that Tyre was flooded, I made no mention of that. You even called the causeway built by Alexander a "dam".

Those waves prophesied coming over Tyre spoke figuratively of the many nations that would come against Tyre. Not an actual ocean.

And that it would be many nations, not just Nebuchadnezzar, as you wish to lay claim to.

And see, you did not even understand that verse. Nebby was the "many nations". He was a conquered of many "nations" and brought those so called nations, we would call them cities or towns today, against Tyre.

The prophecy did not refer to future nations. Once again Tyre was attacked regularly, trying to bring others besides Nebuchadnezzar into the mix lowers the prophesy to a "You will see a red car" level.

I was avoiding being rushed. Tried to oblige... But, now after some study have found what rushing would have distracted from.

Work with that, please.

Then take your time and try to defend that prophesy without making it a worthless prophesy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He is just repeating what he found on an anti-Bible webpage. You can link to the homepage by going to the link he gave and cutting off the modifier in the address.

I am not "repeating". I am using some of the same arguments because he was right. dad already failed at this. He like you had no answers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That was not the truth. People can become very comfortable with a lie. No turmoil. Only smugness.

Hmm, I guess that explains your smugness.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that you think either was not fulfilled yet that should have been already? Chapter and verse.

The prophesy was case specific for Nebuchadnezzar destroying Tyre.

He failed. Once Nebby was dead all hopes of fulfilling the prophesy died with him.

 

[GenemZ]

What problem do you think that I have?

The only problem I can think of is a severe dislike of dishonest people.

I like dishonest people, too. Honest I do.

 

[GenemZ]

The prophesy was case specific for Nebuchadnezzar destroying Tyre.

He failed. Once Nebby was dead all hopes of fulfilling the prophesy died with him.

We'll see

 

[Subduction Zone]

You fail to show how that is so. I asked several times for you to do so.

Yes, I have. I did it twice now.

Go back and look. You did not make a comment that indicated to me that you agreed with me.