A Pondering of the Peculiar (4)

[Subduction Zone]

AV seems to have a problem understanding the word "proven".

Technically nothing in science is ever really proven. But many things are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Gravity is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The laws of thermodynamics are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Evolution has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Moses has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. His mention in the Dead Sea Scrolls is only the perpetuation of a myth. You need a lot more than that. If you try to claim that he has been proven then by the same standards so have Zeus and Vishnu.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV seems to have a problem understanding the word "proveN.

Oh, I'm the one having a problem with "proven"?

Okie-doke.

Like I said, if you have to try this hard to make yourself look right, don't let me get in the way.

And you guys wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

I mean ... seriously ... do you guys really wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

 

[PsychoSarah]

AV seems to have a problem understanding the word "proven".

Technically nothing in science is ever really proven. But many things are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Gravity is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The laws of thermodynamics are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Evolution has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Moses has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. His mention in the Dead Sea Scrolls is only the perpetuation of a myth. You need a lot more than that. If you try to claim that he has been proven then by the same standards so have Zeus and Vishnu.

Well to be frank in the case of Zeus, people did eventually climb to the top of Mt. Olympus and didn't find any gods at the peak.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Oh, I'm the one having a problem with "proven"?

Okie-doke.

Like I said, if you have to try this hard to make yourself look right, don't let me get in the way.

And you guys wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

I mean ... seriously ... do you guys really wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

I know why you feel that way, but in my personal opinion you can be religious without feeling that way.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know why you feel that way, but in my personal opinion you can be religious without feeling that way.

I'm not religious, but then there was a time when I actually thought you would understand that.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm not religious, but then there was a time when I actually thought you would understand that.

My definition of religious isn't the same as yours. To me, a belief in any deities would fall into the religious category. Do you deny that by how I view religion that you would be considered religious?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, I'm the one having a problem with "proven"?

Okie-doke.

Like I said, if you have to try this hard to make yourself look right, don't let me get in the way.

And you guys wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

I mean ... seriously ... do you guys really wonder why I think science is Antibiblical?

Yes, if you take a book filled with bad science, self contradictions, poor morals, and failed prophecies as a false idol as being real evolution will disagree with that.

Who cares? Now if that Bible did not fail six ways to Sunday you might have a point. But we all know that is not the case. Christians can still accept the deeper message of the Bible and let the clearly mythological parts go. People of weak faith seem to have a problem with letting go so they are forced to believe an obvious myth if they want to remain Christians.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not religious, but then there was a time when I actually thought you would understand that.

Actually you are. You don't get to make up your own definitions. Especially if you cannot justify those definitions.

 

[AV1611VET]

My definition of religious isn't the same as yours.

I have a feeling we differ on a lot of definitions.

After all, you've probably had exposure to a higher degree of science than I have.

I don't consider myself very educated -- and that's why I think I have a deeper respect for the Jews than those who have.

According to Bible typology, Egypt is a synonym for "worldly."

And we know what Egypt thinks of Israel, don't we?

I don't view the Jews as "ignorant, goat-herding, desert, nomads."

I view them as "God's chosen people."

To me, a belief in any deities would fall into the religious category.

Same here -- with just one exception.

Do you deny that by how I view religion that you would be considered religious?

No.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Actually you are. You don't get to make up your own definitions. Especially if you cannot justify those definitions.

The way I feel about it though, only being Agnostic or just not thinking enough about religion to have much in the way of beliefs can be considered nonreligious, because atheists do have a belief that hasn't been proven and is more a matter of belief than disproving through evidence: the general view that there aren't any gods, which is just as unfounded as the idea that there are gods, if you think about it without plunging into the specifics of said god/gods.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, if you take a book filled with bad science, self contradictions, poor morals, and failed prophecies as a false idol as being real evolution will disagree with that.

Who cares? Now if that Bible did not fail six ways to Sunday you might have a point. But we all know that is not the case. Christians can still accept the deeper message of the Bible and let the clearly mythological parts go. People of weak faith seem to have a problem with letting go so they are forced to believe an obvious myth if they want to remain Christians.

I don't care if I use the story of Humpty Dumpty.

That doesn't mean I have to accept someone telling me I "can't prove x."

 

[PsychoSarah]

I have a feeling we differ on a lot of definitions.

After all, you've probably had exposure to a higher degree of science than I have.

I don't consider myself very educated -- and that's why I think I have a deeper respect for the Jews than those who have.

According to Bible typology, Egypt is a synonym for "worldly."

And we know what Egypt thinks of Israel, don't we?

I don't view the Jews as "ignorant, goat-herding, desert, nomads."

I view them as "God's chosen people."

Same here -- with just one exception.

No.

I know that by your own view of what is religious you don't count yourself in that category. I wouldn't be concerned about how I view religion, beyond recognizing that it isn't quite the same as your own. I don't view labeling something as religious as insulting.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't care if I use the story of Humpty Dumpty.

That doesn't mean I have to accept someone telling me I "can't prove x."

Can you prove Humpty Dumpty was an egg?

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually you are.

Suit yourself -- I don't have to live with that junk; and I consider it a blessing.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know that by your own view of what is religious you don't count yourself in that category.

That remains to be seen.

I wouldn't be concerned about how I view religion, beyond recognizing that it isn't quite the same as your own.

Don't worry.

I can sleep at night.

I don't view labeling something as religious as insulting.

I wouldn't either, if I were you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you prove ...

No

 

[Subduction Zone]

Suit yourself -- I don't have to live with that junk; and I consider it a blessing.

Are you calling your religious beliefs junk? Perhaps we can finally agree on something.

 

[PsychoSarah]

No

Glad you noticed that the little kid story doesn't actually say what Humpty Dumpty is. It proves you don't jump to conclusions too quickly all the time.

 

[GenemZ]

Good question, I don't. Nothing but the bible claims such a person existed.

I though so. How can you know anything is true in the Bible if you have failed to know the Lord Jesus Christ? You can not.

Matthew 11:25

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord
of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these
things from the wise and learned, and revealed them
to little children.

​

Keep in mind. God could snap his fingers and make you to become a genius that would make Einstein stammer at your wisdom and knowledge.

God is not looking for what man looks for as to be prized. For we are all intellectually as amoebas next to the God who created man's mind. Man's arrogance is what shuts the door on God. Not willing to reason honestly.. but only to divert when presented evidence that must be seen by the person for himself, by himself. Dishonest denial is rejection of God.

Matthew 16:16-17

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not
revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

​

Read that? ... Which is easier?

Knowing that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Or, that Moses was a real person?

Once you know Christ... the rest is easy. Until you know Christ... the rest is impossible to deal with.
Yet, you want us as mere human beings to make you to see.

“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed
to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

​

If you are not born again you are only half alive. Half dead. Physically alive. Spiritually dead.


.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I though so. How can you know anything is true in the Bible if you have failed to know the Lord Jesus Christ? You can not.

Matthew 11:25

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord
of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these
things from the wise and learned, and revealed them
to little children.

​

Keep in mind. God could snap his fingers and make you to become a genius that would make Einstein stammer at your wisdom and knowledge.

God is not looking for what man looks for as to be prized. For we are all intellectually as amoebas next to the God who created man's mind. Man's arrogance is what shuts the door on God. Not willing to reason honestly.. but only to divert when presented evidence that must be seen by the person for himself, by himself. Dishonest denial is rejection of God.

Matthew 16:16-17

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not
revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

​

Read that? ... Which is easier?

Knowing that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Or, that Moses was a real person?

Once you know Christ... the rest is easy. Until you know Christ... the rest is impossible to deal with.
Yet, you want us as mere human beings to make you to see.

“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed
to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

​

If you are not born again you are only half alive. Half dead. Physically alive. Spiritually dead.


.

Oh, I concur that Jesus probably did exist. How much that person actually matched up to the biblical stories I don't know, but I would be willing to bet Jesus has some sort of basis in reality as a historical figure. The reason why is that Jesus's existence is supported by more than just the bible, for named people he supposedly interacted with can be historically confirmed.