Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[LarryP2]

I just thought of another good analogy for the way SDAs "keep" the "Sabbath."

" Their "Sabbath" is like visiting McDonald's when they have one of their "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie-themed nights, then bragging to friends they experienced real Jamaican cooking. Or eating a McRib sandwich and pretending you've experienced Kansas City Barbecue.

Their "Sabbath" is completely stripped of all meaningful customs, necessary traditions and Jewish interpretations of the day, as though someone suddenly smacked themselves on the forehead and said "Today, I am going to design a Sabbath Day." And then did, with the aid of a voice(s) in their head and "Solo Scriptura."

The rest of the Sabbath and Feast Days? Their own theology professor Samuele Bachiochi, having proved beyond all doubt that Ellen White was a fraud and a false prophet, twisted Colossians 2:14-17 into a pretzel, which now DOES require keeping all of the other monthly and yearly Sabbaths and Feast Days. I am assuming the Church leadership has not let the "rank and file" know about this development, otherwise the present massive hemorrhage of members would become a deranged stampede out of the Church.

Although some of SDA's nuttier, but more honest ultra-fundamentalists are talking this logic out to its obvious necessary end-point: Emphatically rejecting all of the Epistles of Paul ("incorporated too much Greek and Roman ideas), and building the necessary backyard temples and commencing weekly, animal sacrifices.

 

[mmksparbud]

The processionary caterpillar is so predictable we can respond with a c&p without even reading a post and be right on target.

That's what I said--you do not read the posts--you just put in your same silly ideas without any idea of what has really been said!! And you are never "Right on target"--not even close.

And to whomever said that all the laws are of equal importance and that the Jews made no distinction between the "10 Commandments" and the other laws---I do hope you at least consider the fact that God placed only the hand written "10 commandments" in the Ark--He did not command for any of the other laws to go into the ark, only the once He had written with His own hand, the ones that Moses broke and God made another.

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Exo 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb,

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[LarryP2]

It doesn't matter that the "Ten Commandments" were placed in the Ark of the Covenant. That is purely symbolic. Your argument is irrational and unequivocally rejected by Judaism.
The Ark the 10 and the[bless and do not curse] law

By the way, if you argue that the "Ten Commandments" continue to have significance because they were "placed inside the Ark," then why doesn't the Ark itself continue to have significance for Christians? Why doesn't ALL of the furniture in the Temple continue to have significance? The Jews presently keep the entire Torah within an "ark" in the front of all of their Synagogues. According to Seventh Day Adventist "feast keeper" wackos, that means the ENTIRE Old Testament laws apply to Christians because of that significant act. All 613 Commandments!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah_ark

Additionally, the Torah scrolls were placed either inside the Ark, or right next to it. That must mean the entire Old Testament is still binding on Christians! All 613 laws!
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/704657/jewish/Inside-the-Ark-or-on-a-Shelf.htm

Furthermore, your contention the "Ten Commandments" were the only item in the Ark is absolutely false:
http://the-tabernacle-place.com/articles/what_is_the_tabernacle/tabernacle_ark_of_the_covenant

The rational argument goes like this: The ark, the tablets placed within the Ark, Aaron's Rod that was in the Ark, the Jar of manna placed within the Ark, the temple, the veil between the Holy of Holies.....are all gone.

NONE of them have any significance for Christians.

Christianity is unequivocal about this issue: Christianity teaches that they were ALL replaced by Jesus Christ. Make your decision: Follow Jesus Christ or follow a non-Christian cult. The choice is absolutely clear.

Choose wisely.

Why don't you argue that Aaron's Rod and the Jar of Manna have special significance to Christians? And since the Ark was placed in the Holy of Holies, the veil that was rent at Christ's death also has special significance.....and on and on and on you go, down the path to mental illness and cult brainwashing.......until you are no longer a Christian.

Until, like the truly-wacko and bizarre Seventh day Adventists "Feast Keepers," you eventually must reject the Epistles of the Apostle Paul who you must call a "false Apostle;" you must set up a backyard temple for burnt offerings; you must keep all the yearly and monthly Sabbaths; you must fly to Jerusalem three times a year; you must wear a Yarmulake; you must build a Seventh Day Adventist Synagogue.......

At some point, you cross a line where you cease being a Christian and become a Jew. Christianity has NEVER tolerated any ambiguity on this: the point of no return is crossed when you start keeping the Sabbath. Once you do that, then logically ALL of the laws, ALL of the Ordinances, ALL of the statutes, ALL of the ceremonies, ALL of the Temple rituals apply. You are NOT permitted to pick and choose at your leisure, or whatever tickles your fancy, or whatever happens to be convenient. They come as a package.

Two of Seventh Day Adventism's top theologians have studied the issue carefully and have concluded that ALL of the old obsolete junk in the previous paragraph is MANDATORY for for the poor, deluded members of the Seventh Day Adventist cult. The billion dollar a year Seventh Day Adventist cult depends on one thing, and one thing only: Colossians 2:14-17 does not mean what it says and does not say what it means. Strangely, the leadership has not explained this to the rank and file members. Do you see the problem here? Seventh Day Adventist's false prophet concluded over 150 years ago that the cult only requires worshiping the Seventh Day Sabbath. For 150 years, because Adventists have not been keeping all of the other feasts and requirements listed above, no Adventist has been saved!100 percent of Adventists are doomed, because they followed the advice of a demon-possessed, false prophet. Their own top theologians have proved Ellen G. White's reliance on only the 7th Day Sabbath is false and unbiblical. Ellen White discarded most of Christianity: having rejected the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ; downgraded the Resurrection and calling Protestant Christians the "Harlot daughters of the harlot of Babylon." The two top Adventist Theologians have rejected the rest of it: ALL of the Old Testament laws now apply.

The Council of Jerusalem made this point explicitly and painfully clear: Gentile Christians keep absolutely NONE of the Mosaic Law. The Apostles drew a bright line in the Sand. THAT is Christianity. You cannot get any clearer than that. It really is black and white.

"Quite a few Seventh-day Adventist "feast-keepers" are now proclaiming that the Sabbath must be kept according to the "new moons" calendar and boldly state that most Seventh-day Adventists are keeping the wrong day for Sabbath. Others are making statements that, since they are living in the "antitypical day of Atonement," all intimate sexual relationships between husbands and wives must now stop until Jesus comes. This same idea is applied if one desires to be one of the hundred and forty-four thousand who will be pure to finish the work of preaching the gospel to the world.

Then there are those who believe that they not only should observe the feasts, statutes, and judgments, but they should also dress and look like Jews, with the yarmulke, or skull cap, on the head, the prayer belt, black clothes for men, unshaved beard during holy days, and the wearing of the prayer shawl, among dozens of other Jewish dress customs. With so many differing practices going on, much confusion exists among the different feast-keeping groups."
Ratzlaff

You can be a Christian. You can be a member of the Seventh Day Adventist cult. But you cannot be both.

 

[VictorC]

That's what I said--you do not read the posts--you just put in your same silly ideas without any idea of what has really been said!! And you are never "Right on target"--not even close.

And to whomever said that all the laws are of equal importance and that the Jews made no distinction between the "10 Commandments" and the other laws---I do hope you at least consider the fact that God placed only the hand written "10 commandments" in the Ark--He did not command for any of the other laws to go into the ark, only the once He had written with His own hand, the ones that Moses broke and God made another.

Your post doesn't address the topic of the thread. The distinction you want to make merely attempts to explain why you dismiss the sabbath on one hand, and then embrace the sabbath on the other, and dismiss the annual sabbaths that are equally binding in the Law. This is inconsistent and shows that you can't divide the old covenant Law into artificial bits and pieces.

Besides, the greatest commandment found in the entire Law was spoken by Moses of his own volition (Matthew 22:36-38), and wasn't written onto tablets of stone nor placed into the ark of the OLD covenant.

 

[Shimshon]

Besides, the greatest commandment found in the entire Law was spoken by Moses of his own volition (Matthew 22:36-38), and wasn't written onto tablets of stone nor placed into the ark of the OLD covenant.

You may want to rethink this statement.

Deut 6
1 "Now this is http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-1the commandment, the statutes and the ruleshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#fn-descriptionAnchor-a that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, 2 that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-2you may fear the LORD your God, you and your son and your son's son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-3that your days may be long. 3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-4as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.

4 "Hear, O Israel: http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-5The LORD our God, the LORD is one.http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#fn-descriptionAnchor-b5 You http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-6shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-7these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
​

Surely not spoken or commanded by Moses own power.

 

[VictorC]

You may want to rethink this statement.

Deut 6
1 "Now this is http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-1the commandment, the statutes and the ruleshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#fn-descriptionAnchor-a that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, 2 that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-2you may fear the LORD your God, you and your son and your son's son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-3that your days may be long. 3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-4as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.

4 "Hear, O Israel: http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-5The LORD our God, the LORD is one.http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#fn-descriptionAnchor-b5 You http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-6shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...px?q=deuteronomy+6:1-6#cr-descriptionAnchor-7these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
​

Surely not spoken or commanded by Moses own power.

Your own quote from Deuteronomy 6 documents Moses as the source of the commandment!

 

[Shimshon]

Your own quote from Deuteronomy 6 documents Moses as the source of the commandment!

Who commanded Moses to teach?

Do you agree that Moses taught (Yisrael) the commandments of God? All His rulings, laws, and ways?

You're really trying to argue that Moses spoke of his own volition?

He conjured up the words to speak himself, as God commanded him? (speaking like a fool).

 

[VictorC]

Who commanded Moses to teach?

Do you agree that Moses taught (Yisrael) the commandments of God? All His rulings, laws, and ways?

You're really trying to argue that Moses spoke of his own volition?

He conjured up the words to speak himself, as God commanded him? (speaking like a fool).

Listen, you're the one who made a claim that you can't document - and now you're inserting your 'reasoning' to replace Scripture's testimony. Is there a reason you won't accept what Scripture actually says?

 

[Shimshon]

Listen, you're the one who made a claim that you can't document - and now you're inserting your 'reasoning' to replace Scripture's testimony. Is there a reason you won't accept what Scripture actually says?

Wow, talk about a side step. You can't (or won't) answer the simple question can you?

Yes or no, did God command Moses what to teach?

When I look at Deut 6:1 I see it state that the Lord our God commanded Moses to teach......... Please don't get all offended by my asking if you concur? As if I reasoned it myself.

 

[LarryP2]

Was St. Paul "commanded by God" to teach?

He taught the verdict of the Council of Jerusalem: NONE of the Mosaic law applies to Gentile Christians.

That would be ZERO. ZIP. NADA.

Is that good enough for you? Do you detect any ambiguity there? Any wiggle room? Any daylight to weasel your way into following a false and deceptive prophet and keep just an oh-so-convenient-few of the Mosaic laws?

Or do you join the rest of the heretical cultic mad men and forthrightly declare St. Paul was a False Apostle? Isn't that actually the intellectually-honest and consistent position that thinking cult apologists MUST proclaim? Why are Seventh Day Adventists NEVER honest about the full implications of the research done by their top theologians? Why do SDA cultists think it is okay to come on here with their half-verses strung together with out-of-context other verses, and never explain that the FULL Mosaic law still applies?

 

[Shimshon]

Was St. Paul "commanded by God" to teach?

He taught the verdict of the Council of Jerusalem: NONE of the Mosaic law applies to Gentile Christians.

That would be ZERO. ZIP. NADA.

Is that good enough for you? Do detect any ambiguity there?

Or do you going join the rest of the heretical cultists and honestly declare St. Paul was a False Apostle?

LOL sorry to laugh but you hostility is shining through brightly. You're definitly on the defense. I'm not anti-Paul BTW.

 

[LarryP2]

Nice attempt at dodging the question!

Did Paul teach the verdict of the Council of Jerusalem? YES____NO_____.

Did the Decree from the Council of Jerusalem say that NONE of the Mosaic laws applied to Gentile Christians? YES_______NO______.

Is the Seventh Day Sabbath part of the Mosaic Law? YES_______NO______.


Was Paul ordained by God to be an Apostle? YES______NO______

Have Adventist Theologians been quietly teaching for many years that Paul was a False Apostle? YES______NO_________

Trust me, filling in the blanks is much easier than appearing a public fool by evasively dodging very simple questions.

 

[Shimshon]

Nice attempt at dodging the question!

I'm going to humor you for a second. First, it's not a dodge. I didn't find your post engaging, nor did I see a question needing answered. I saw a person attacking what they do not like. So a cordial answer was never in the cards.

 

[LarryP2]

.......nor did I see a question needing answered........

We will see if that is true or not. Personally I see FOUR questions in the post under discussion. Lets see if you can dodge that assertion, or whether indeed we can reach an agreement that four questions were in fact asked:

"Was St. Paul "commanded by God" to teach?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Is that good enough for you?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Do detect any ambiguity there?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Or do you going join the rest of the heretical cultists and honestly declare St. Paul was a False Apostle?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

Do you agree that a question is almost always followed by a question Mark? YES_____NO________.

Do you agree that those four "questions" were followed by question marks? YES_____NO________.

 

[from scratch]

That's what I said--you do not read the posts--you just put in your same silly ideas without any idea of what has really been said!! And you are never "Right on target"--not even close.

And to whomever said that all the laws are of equal importance and that the Jews made no distinction between the "10 Commandments" and the other laws---I do hope you at least consider the fact that God placed only the hand written "10 commandments" in the Ark--He did not command for any of the other laws to go into the ark, only the once He had written with His own hand, the ones that Moses broke and God made another.

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Exo 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb,

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The problem I've developed is upon reading the first part of a post I know from reading so many exactly what the rest ensues. I fully understand the rest is also heresy if it even relates to a title or opening verse. What matters in our differences is really the covenants which effect eternal life. Your preferred amended covenant doesn't provide salvation (eternal life).

 

[LarryP2]

The problem I've developed is upon reading the first part of a post I know from reading so many exactly what the rest ensues. I fully understand the rest is also heresy if it even relates to a title or opening verse. What matters in our differences is really the covenants which effect eternal life. Your preferred amended covenant doesn't provide salvation (eternal life).

Nor is it Christianity. But so far, I have failed to get them to check boxes on extremely simple questions.

I'll tell you one thing: I bet Seventh Day Adventists LONG for the days before the internet! Before the internet, when Ellen White would make some idiotic prediction like "the British are going to join the Southern States during the Civil War;" or that "slavery would continue after the Civil War;" they could simply delete it before the next edition, and nobody would be any wiser.

Now the internet "hive mind" has pieced together all of the hidden lies and frauds of this satanic woman and her anti-Christian cult and her credibility is precisely zero.

 

[VictorC]

We will see if that is true or not. Personally I see FOUR questions in the post under discussion. Lets see if you can dodge that assertion, or whether indeed we can reach an agreement that four questions were in fact asked:

"Was St. Paul "commanded by God" to teach?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Is that good enough for you?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Do detect any ambiguity there?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

"Or do you going join the rest of the heretical cultists and honestly declare St. Paul was a False Apostle?" Is that a question? YES_____NO________.

Do you agree that a question is almost always followed by a question Mark? YES_____NO________.

Do you agree that those four "questions" were followed by question marks? YES_____NO________.

You too? I've come to the point where off-topic diversions based on questioning Scripture's testimony are ignored. The inane damage only themselves.

 

[LarryP2]

That's because they well know that their Sabbath doctrine is indefensible on about 30 or 40 different levels. However you want to analyze it, it completely fails: historically, biblically, doctrinally, culturally. It is based on easily-detectable lies and frauds. There is NOTHING Christian or Biblical about it.

They come on here with half-verses stitched together with out of context verses, bait the hook, and lure in gullible and biblically-illiterate Christians. So they can snack and luxuriate on the resulting 10 percent income stream. Everything is bait and switch with them. Ellen White said Tall People lived on Jupiter. DELETE. Come hear our non-denominational multi-media Evangelistic crusade based on Prophecy at the state college auditorium. EEEK! IT'S THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS AGAIN!! EEEEK!

Seventh Day Adventism is best analyzed a thinly-religious infomercial; huckstering a fraudulent pre-packaged religious-lifestyle.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's because they well know that their Sabbath doctrine is indefensible on about 30 or 40 different levels. However you want to analyze it, it completely fails: historically, biblically, doctrinally, culturally. It is based on easily-detectable lies and frauds. There is NOTHING Christian or Biblical about it.

They come on here with half-verses stitched together with out of context verses, bait the hook, and lure in gullible and biblically-illiterate Christians. So they can snack and luxuriate on the resulting 10 percent income stream. Everything is bait and switch with them. Ellen White said Tall People lived on Jupiter. DELETE. Come hear our non-denominational multi-media Evangelistic crusade based on Prophecy at the state college auditorium.

EEEK! IT'S THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS AGAIN!! EEEEK!

Seventh Day Adventism is best analyzed a thinly-religious infomercial; huckstering a fraudulent pre-packaged religious-lifestyle.

Never heard it put like that concerning the SDA sect.

.

 

[from scratch]

Nor is it Christianity. But so far, I have failed to get them to check boxes on extremely simple questions.

I'll tell you one thing: I bet Seventh Day Adventists LONG for the days before the internet! Before the internet, when Ellen White would make some idiotic prediction like "the British are going to join the Southern States during the Civil War;" or that "slavery would continue after the Civil War;" they could simply delete it before the next edition, and nobody would be any wiser.

Now the internet "hive mind" has pieced together all of the hidden lies and frauds of this satanic woman and her anti-Christian cult and her credibility is precisely zero.

Yes it certainly is a substantial problem for them. Things can be checked so easily and quickly.