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The 'Macro-Micro' thing....again..

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Loudmouth

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your talking 3 different types and you know very well I refer to genra.

There is no reason why type should refer to genus. You have given us no reason why type should refer to genus. I have also demonstrated that all of those animals are the deuterosome type of animal. They are all the same type.
 
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PsychoSarah

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There is no reason why type should refer to genus. You have given us no reason why type should refer to genus. I have also demonstrated that all of those animals are the deuterosome type of animal. They are all the same type.

Better than him trying to use kinds.
 
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createdtoworship

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Where is your evidence for these claims?

I assume you mean my evidence on taxonomy. well it's man made for example. Also many endorse phylocode instead of taxonomy. It's an educated guess as to what an animal is basically. But it does imply evolutionary relationship which is not a scientic fact. In order to streamline the conversation I give in to using the system, but it is not perfect.

https://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/attacks-on-taxonomy
 
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Loudmouth

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I assume you mean my evidence on taxonomy. well it's man made for example. Also many endorse phylocode instead of taxonomy. It's an educated guess as to what an animal is basically. But it does imply evolutionary relationship which is not a scientic fact. In order to streamline the conversation I give in to using the system, but it is not perfect.

https://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/attacks-on-taxonomy

Let's go over those claims:

1. "Like I said my sources view the family as what was likely on the ark,"

2. "Also as far as genus barrier, the only reason why I use the illustration is that evolution does not appear on a wide scale."

Let's start with those two.
 
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createdtoworship

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There is no reason why type should refer to genus. You have given us no reason why type should refer to genus. I have also demonstrated that all of those animals are the deuterosome type of animal. They are all the same type.

sexual compatibility implies different types.
 
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createdtoworship

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What are these problems? Explain it to us.

I am not sure you understand what you are arguing, or you would recognize the lack of evidence imediately. Am I correct? If not, explain your position.
 
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createdtoworship

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Sequence differences, LTR divergence, or loci differences? You need to be specific.
well explain your position.

Why don't you cite the actual scientific papers instead of citing a creationist lying about the actual scientific papers?[/

that begs the question as to what truth is, doesn't it?
 
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createdtoworship

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Untrue, due to changes in pH and salinity, most water based life would have died in such an event as well.

thats not true, a fish (like a salmon, talipia, molly, violet goby, guppy, sword tails and platys species) can desalinate or salinate if it desires, as long as the increase/decrease is small and constant. In fact 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per 5 gallons actually helps cure some disease.

I had some examples of this, I will have to search my notes,

good comment.

Update: here is some rainbow trout that adjusted to 2/3 ocean salinization in 7-10 days

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/83/1/193.short
 
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Loudmouth

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well explain your position.

This paper explains it perfectly:

"First, the distribution of provirus-containing loci among taxa dates the insertion. Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences

We find over 200,000 ERV's at the same base in both the human and chimp genomes. There are only a relative handful of ERV's in either genome that are not found at the same spot in the other genome.

that begs the question as to what truth is, doesn't it?

It begs the question as to whether or not you care about the truth.
 
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createdtoworship

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Assuming you meant incompatible . . .

Why can't two animals from the same type be sexually incompatible?

inncompatible, yes. And your second sentence contains a double negative, maybe reword?
 
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createdtoworship

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This paper explains it perfectly:

"First, the distribution of provirus-containing loci among taxa dates the insertion. Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences

We find over 200,000 ERV's at the same base in both the human and chimp genomes. There are only a relative handful of ERV's in either genome that are not found at the same spot in the other genome.



It begs the question as to whether or not you care about the truth.

How do you know my previous links didn't refute just that? Did you even read the research?
 
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createdtoworship

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What prevents two lineages that share common ancestry from losing the ability to produce viable and fertile offspring?

your question is on contradicting bases. You have two lineages of common ancestry which to me is impossible. There is no common ancestry of two lineages of different genra. But if there were in fact common ancestry, then they should reproduce, if not common they they would be sterile.
 
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createdtoworship

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You are the one claiming that the links you gave refuted my argument. Are you going to back up your claim, or not?

I never said that, I said: "how do you know they didn't, if you didn't read it?"
 
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biggles53

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your question is on contradicting bases. You have two lineages of common ancestry which to me is impossible. There is no common ancestry of two lineages of different genra. But if there were in fact common ancestry, then they should reproduce, if not common they they would be sterile.

What....??

One of the prime pieces of evidence of the divergence from a CA is the INABILITY to reproduce between the divergent species....!

Do some reading about ring species.....you really are out if your depth....
 
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createdtoworship

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What....??

One of the prime pieces of evidence of the divergence from a CA is the INABILITY to reproduce between the divergent species....!

Do some reading about ring species.....you really are out if your depth....

speciation most likely happens like a ring species but more drastic where common characteristics have changed and they change the name of the species taxonomically. But this is not macro evolution so it's fine, its micro evolution. Macro evolution is evolution happening above species levels. For example Homo neanderthalensis and homo erectus are different species but the same kind or genus.
 
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Atheos canadensis

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Yeah, but with God, anything is possible, so ark=TARDIS. Problem solved. ^_^

True. If you're willing to get extra-biblical as many creationists are (Dad and Aman being prime examples; cue comment from Aman about how his beliefs are 100% scriptural and are not beliefs but facts) then you can explain away any problem at all.
 
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