What Would Falsify the Flood? (2)

[PsychoSarah]

Interesting remark, in light of the fact that it was the Bible's words (pearls) that were trampled.

Just as Jesus said they would be.

We don't trample on the bible, don't let Fred and other antitheists make you think that all atheists hate religion or disregard it, because that is not the case.

Atheists being driven out of their homes for their lack of belief would be just as wrong as Christians being driven out of their homes because of their beliefs (beliefs, not practices in the cases of those few sects that practice polygamy, etc.).

 

[PsychoSarah]

Matthew 7:6 is Sunday school material for teens and adults.

There is nothing inappropriate about someone demonstrating Matthew 7:6, using someone's request to: "Show a single verse where it states that the writer of any of the Gospels was a first hand witness to anything in the Gospels;" then, when a verse is shown, reply: "So you have a second hand account, a man claiming to be writing stories told to him by people claiming to be eye witnesses. So much for being the words of Jesus."

Matthew 7:6 is not an R-rated portion of Scripture.

I wasn't talking about a specific portion of scripture. You have to admit that some parts are very graphic in nature.

 

[Loudmouth]

The flood is the flood. The only falseness about the flood is those who claim the flood is false, among other things.

Am I right to assume that no evidence would ever change your mind?

 

[Loudmouth]

That is silly. When it says Jesus spoke to John, or Peter and said something, obviously they were witnesses.

When it refers to these events in the 3rd person, it is obviously not a first hand account.

 

[FredHoyle]

Everyone knows that the name on the book in the bible is the name of the person who wrote it, that's obvious.
I don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Everyone knows that the name on the book in the bible is the name of the person who wrote it, that's obvious.
I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Some of them are common names, so it makes it hard to pinpoint who precisely wrote what.

 

[dad]

When it refers to these events in the 3rd person, it is obviously not a first hand account.

Obviously the new testament tells of what happened to the persons, and what was said etc. No one says it should have been written in a first person style. Yet obviously it happened to the folks writing and written of. In some cases we see the first person too.

Re 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? 21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.



Hoo ha!

 

[PsychoSarah]

Obviously the new testament tells of what happened to the persons, and what was said etc. No one says it should have been written in a first person style. Yet obviously it happened to the folks writing and written of. In some cases we see the first person too.

Re 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? 21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.



Hoo ha!

So, I can write a short story in first person, doesn't mean the fictional character is the author.

 

[dad]

So, I can write a short story in first person, doesn't mean the fictional character is the author.

Have you any basis to call John and Peter and Jesus, and Paul, and Luke, and Timothy, and Silas, and Mark, and all the folks in the bible fictional? That is insane.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have you any basis to call John and Peter and Jesus, and Paul, and Luke, and Timothy, and Silas, and Mark, and all the folks in the bible fictional? That is insane.

Why do you say that? I have read many stories that are "based upon an actual event" that were clearly not true. There are very often real names in those stories. That means those people could have been real, it lends no credibility to your story.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Have you any basis to call John and Peter and Jesus, and Paul, and Luke, and Timothy, and Silas, and Mark, and all the folks in the bible fictional? That is insane.

That is not what I am getting at, what I am trying to say is the first person speech doesn't mean that the events happened to the author, nor is the name of the biblical book necessarily the name of the author.

 

[dad]

Why do you say that?

Because PSarah mentioned fictional characters.

I have read many stories that are "based upon an actual event" that were clearly not true.

Not written by many people and verified enough to be held by the common body of the day as sacred!

There are very often real names in those stories. That means those people could have been real, it lends no credibility to your story.

What people believe depends on what they chose to believe. The integrity of the events, prophesies, and people of the bible are well respected and passed down through time. In my opinion, one would need a rebel who has forsaken reason, and has a head bloody and unbowed to God, and was determined come hell or high water to dive as deeply into delusion as possible, to find any alternative no matter how vile or crazy....to engage in the rabid sort of Last Thursdayism some evos seem to want to at least pretend they advocate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is not what I am getting at, what I am trying to say is the first person speech doesn't mean that the events happened to the author, nor is the name of the biblical book necessarily the name of the author.

The Book of Job comes to mind. It was clearly not written by Job.

 

[dad]

... I am trying to say is the first person speech doesn't mean that the events happened to the author, nor is the name of the biblical book necessarily the name of the author.

Unless they were liars all, yes, what they recorded and died for does need to be true actually.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because PSarah mentioned fictional characters.

And the Bible is full of fictional characters too.

Not written by many people and verified enough to be held by the common body of the day as sacred!

Too bad the Bible is so full of errors that that has not happened to it, isn't it?

Do we need to go over how badly failed the Tyre prophesy was again?

What people believe depends on what they chose to believe. The integrity of the events, prophesies, and people of the bible are well respected and passed down through time. In my opinion, one would need a rebel who has forsaken reason, and has a head bloody and unbowed to God, and was determined come hell or high water to dive as deeply into delusion as possible, to find any alternative no matter how vile or crazy....to engage in the rabid sort of Last Thursdayism some evos seem to want to at least pretend they advocate.

Yes, Christians do that all of the time. That is why there are thousands of different sects or different interpretations of the Bible. No one believes the whole Bible, not even you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unless they were liars all, yes, what they recorded and died for does need to be true actually.

They did not need to all be liars. I would think that most of them were simply mistaken.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Unless they were liars all, yes, what they recorded and died for does need to be true actually.

Many people died defending lies, it is unfortunate but it happens. However, there is also the possibility they happened to have the same name as the person they were writing about. After all, many people share names with biblical characters. But, you assume they claimed to be the person in the story just because they wrote it in first person.

 

[dad]

And the Bible is full of fictional characters too.

How would you know?

Too bad the Bible is so full of errors that that has not happened to it, isn't it?

Too bad man is full of errors.

Do we need to go over how badly failed the Tyre prophesy was again?

Yes.

Yes, Christians do that all of the time. That is why there are thousands of different sects or different interpretations of the Bible. No one believes the whole Bible, not even you.

I try. Hey, what's not to believe?

 

[dad]

Many people died defending lies, it is unfortunate but it happens. However, there is also the possibility they happened to have the same name as the person they were writing about.

In the case of John for example, He identified himself as the person doing something with Jesus, not just by name.

No one seriously thinks there were five Pauls doing missionary work at the time, or six Peters..etc. Get a grip.

 

[dad]

They did not need to all be liars. I would think that most of them were simply mistaken.

Better to think based on something rather than to just sort of conspiracy theory day dream stuff.