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Old Timer

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The sword of the Spirit has many wondrous uses of the word until.. perhaps the most amazing being The LORD's own statement that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until it was fulfilled in His kingdom.

We could ponder that for a while..

Or how about Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..

How about Israel being blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

What about the our Lord Jesus Christ now.. whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things..

Does anyone consider what happens.. after these untils' are fulfilled..?

Say it three times fast..
 

Gideon

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Old Timer said:
Or how about Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..

Its an interesting word isnt it? Ive often wondered if Preterists have it in their dictionary. :sorry:

"until" hmmmm
 
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random person

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The sword of the Spirit has many wondrous uses of the word until.. perhaps the most amazing being The LORD's own statement that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until it was fulfilled in His kingdom.

We could ponder that for a while..

How about Israel being blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

Genesis 48:19

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude (fullness) of nations.

Hosea 7:8

Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Psalm 106:35

But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
 
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Biblewriter

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The Rapture - Darby's child - the belief that Christ returns, exits His church and His Spirit, and offers the end times sinners and 1/3 of the Jews an additional 3.5 - 7 years to come to repentence!

I just noticed your new signature line. It is absolutely and positively incorrect that any of this doctrine originated with Darby.

Irenaeus wrote, (it is thought between the years 186 and 188):

“And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXV, section 4)

He also wrote:
“Now all these things being such as they are, cannot be understood in reference to super-celestial matters; ‘for God, it is said,’ ‘will show to the whole earth that is under heaven thy glory.’ But in the times of the kingdom, the earth has been called again by Christ [to its pristine condition], and Jerusalem rebuilt after the pattern of the Jerusalem above, of which the prophet Isaiah says, ‘Behold, I have depicted thy walls upon my hands, and thou art always in my sight.’” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXXV, section 2)

And Hyppolytus wrote, (it is thought sometime between the years 202 and 211):
“For after sixty-two weeks was fulfilled and after Christ has come and the Gospel has been preached in every place, times having been spun out, the end remains one week away, in which Elijah and Enoch shall be present and in its half the abomination of desolation, the Antichrist, shall appear who threatens desolation of the world. After he comes, sacrifice and drink offering, which now in every way is offered by the nations to God, shall be taken away.” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hyppolytus, book 4, 35.3)

He also wrote:
“Just as also he spoke to Daniel, “And he shall establish a covenant with many for one week and it will be that in the half of the week he shall take away my sacrifice and drink offering,” so that the one week may be shown as divided into two, after the two witnesses will have preached for three and a half years, the Antichrist will wage war against the saints the remainder of the week and will desolate all the world so that what was spoken may be fulfilled, “And they will give the abomination of desolation one thousand two hundred ninety days. Blessed is he who endures to Christ and reaches the one thousand three hundred thirty-five days!” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hyppolytus, book 4, 50.2)

And the pre-tribulation rapture was clearly taught in a document, whose age and author is unknown, but which is known to have been in Church libraries before the year 800. Based on events referred to in this document as impending, various scholars have estimated its date from as early as 373 to as late as 627. As scholars do not believe the unknown author could have been the famous Ephraem the Syrian, (who is also known as Ephraem of Nisbis) they call this unknown author Pseudo-Ephraem. This document says,

“Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: ‘Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!’ For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” (“On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World,” author unknown but called Pseudo-Ephraem, section 2.)
 
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Biblewriter

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When I tell my kids to "behave until i get home" I do not mean they are to begin misbehaving once I return.

That is absolutely correct. But it does mean you are going to come home.
 
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O

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One way in which I enjoy wielding the Sword of the Spirit is by making simple connections.. and to me they do seem to be simple.. taking a portion of scripture which speaks on a particular subject (The Twelve Apostles.. perhaps).. and simply connect it with another portion which also speaks on the same matter.

Look at how wondrous (and simple) it is to see for example, when the Kingdom of God shall come.. to earth...

Again let's take a simple portion from Luke 22..

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: for I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

...So when will that be?

Hear what the LORD says to his Apostles just a few verses down the page.. about the kingdom..

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Now where have I heard that before.. the Apostles sitting on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. OOOH.. I remember, that was in Matthew's gospel, chapter 19.. where Peter was asking the LORD what they would have for following him..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Wait a minute.. in the regeneration?

When will that be...?

Well, we know that it will be when he sits on the throne of his glory.. it does say that.. so is there a portion of scripture which tells us when the LORD shall sit upon the throne of his glory?

Sure there is.. and that is also in Matthew's gospel.. chapter 25..

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory

So we have the LORD telling us that he shall not eat the Passover or drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come

Jesus then tells his Apostles that they shall be appointed a kingdom, as He has from His Father, and that they shall sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in that kingdom.

Matthew teaches us that this will happen in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit upon the throne of His glory.. and Matthew 25 teaches us that this shall be when the LORD shall come in his glory.

With only a few simple swipes of the sword.. we can see some absolutely wondrous things..

Even things which shall be hereafter.. in that Day.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.
 
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Shocker

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Think about it..

If the SPIRIT of TRUTH shows us things to come.. and preterists have no clue as to what is coming..

Do the math...

Way ahead of you..

Put the word out, those of us who understand the truth of prophecy are simply going to ignore the known preterists on this forum..
 
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Danoh

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Genesis 48:19

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude (fullness) of nations.

Hosea 7:8

Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Psalm 106:35

But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.

You sure have an odd way of adding up two and two... The fact is that Jacob-Israel was reiterating to his son, Joseph, what God had earlier related to Jacob-Israel concerning BOTH Manasseth and Ephraim - that out of the seed of BOTH - Abraham's, Isaac's, and now also Jacob's -Israel's PHYSICAL seed would be greatly multiplied into various ISRAELITE nations.

And we see this multitude of PHYSICAL Israelites by the time of Joshua.

While, Hosea is a book of REBUKE from its vert first chapter to its last - AGAINST Ephraim's having gone AGAINST Moses NOT to mix with Gentiles.

I read your posts in light of that - against its simple truth - and I have to wonder what it is you are actually reading - its as if you simply do not care that you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about this issue... oh well.
 
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Shocker

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You sure have an odd way of adding up two and two... The fact is that Jacob-Israel was reiterating to his son, Joseph, what God had earlier related to Jacob-Israel concerning BOTH Manasseth and Ephraim - that out of the seed of BOTH - Abraham's, Isaac's, and now also Jacob's -Israel's PHYSICAL seed would be greatly multiplied into various ISRAELITE nations.

And we see this multitude of PHYSICAL Israelites by the time of Joshua.

While, Hosea is a book of REBUKE from its vert first chapter to its last - AGAINST Ephraim's having gone AGAINST Moses NOT to mix with Gentiles.

I read your posts in light of that - against its simple truth - and I have to wonder what it is you are actually reading - its as if you simply do not care that you are ABSOLUTELY wrong about this issue... oh well.

:thumbsup:
 
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