Those who demand a scripture that demands a Limited Atonement !

[stan1953]

Well here is one such scripture that specifically rules out all atonement for certain ones by God :
1 Samuel 3:14, "And therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever."
This text specifically mentions the house of Eli and their sin shall NEVER be atoned for !

The problem is you seem to feel this overrides the NEW Covenant God made with the House of Israel? Not so. The RSB puts it succinctly.

While there was provision to atone for unintentional priestly sins (Lev. 4:1–12), the sins of Eli’s house were clearly acts of open defiance (Num. 15:30–31). They had scorned the normal means of atonement, that is, sacrifice and offering (2:17, 29).​

There are many NT verses that show The Blood of Jesus was shed for ALL.

 

[cygnusx1]

The problem is you seem to feel this overrides the NEW Covenant God made with the House of Israel? Not so. The RSB puts it succinctly.

While there was provision to atone for unintentional priestly sins (Lev. 4:1–12), the sins of Eli’s house were clearly acts of open defiance (Num. 15:30–31). They had scorned the normal means of atonement, that is, sacrifice and offering (2:17, 29).​

There are many NT verses that show The Blood of Jesus was shed for ALL.

I disagree , the word "all" is the most abused misunderstood word in Christendom .

Christ warned his disciples "all men will hate you "

Taken literally you hate the Apostles too ....

 

[FreeGrace2]

The problem is that you're looking at a text in Ephesians that speaks of the Christian life. I agree with you that it speaks of what we do. I was looking at other texts which talk about how Christ's death works.

OK. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I disagree , the word "all" is the most abused misunderstood word in Christendom .

Primarily abused by reformed theology. I'll give an example:

Christ warned his disciples "all men will hate you "

Taken literally you hate the Apostles too ....

Or, more technically, the example is provided by yourself, with an irrelevant comment. What Christ said isn't even closely related to Heb 2:9.

Common sense does understand that Christ's comment is limited to one's own time frame and location, and cannot have anything to do with every single person in history.

But Heb 2:9 has no such limitation on it. It says that Christ died for all, and means exactly that.

Just because Jesus' use of "all" in the statement provided couldn't possibly refer to everyone in humanity, in no way influences how the writer of Hebrews used it.

 

[stan1953]

I disagree , the word "all" is the most abused misunderstood word in Christendom .
Christ warned his disciples "all men will hate you "
Taken literally you hate the Apostles too ....

Sorry but out of my entire response you only saw ALL?
That wasn't really the point of your post was it?

In any event I'll deal with ALL. Here are a few verses. If you don't think any of them actually mean what we commonly thing ALL means then please feel free to exegete.

Luke 2:10
But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I announce to you good news of a great joy which will be for all the people.
Luke 2:30-32
For my eyes have seen your salvation,
which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.
Acts 2:17
‘And it will be in the last days,’ declares · God, ‘that I will pour out · my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, · · and · your young men will see visions, and · your old men will dream dreams.
Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Romans 3:22-23
It is the righteousness · of God available through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. (For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God.)
Romans 5:18
Therefore, just as one man’s transgression brought condemnation for all men, so also one man’s righteous act brought justification and life for all men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not late in fulfilling his promise, as some regard lateness, but is patient toward you, not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[cygnusx1]

Sorry but out of my entire response you only saw ALL?
That wasn't really the point of your post was it?

In any event I'll deal with ALL. Here are a few verses. If you don't think any of them actually mean what we commonly thing ALL means then please feel free to exegete.

Luke 2:10
But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I announce to you good news of a great joy which will be for all the people.
Luke 2:30-32
For my eyes have seen your salvation,
which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.
Acts 2:17
‘And it will be in the last days,’ declares · God, ‘that I will pour out · my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, · · and · your young men will see visions, and · your old men will dream dreams.
Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Romans 3:22-23
It is the righteousness · of God available through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. (For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God.)
Romans 5:18
Therefore, just as one man’s transgression brought condemnation for all men, so also one man’s righteous act brought justification and life for all men.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not late in fulfilling his promise, as some regard lateness, but is patient toward you, not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Can't think of a single one scripture you have posted which does mean all without exception ...... They are all limited by context and other data.

 

[cygnusx1]

Primarily abused by reformed theology. I'll give an example:


Or, more technically, the example is provided by yourself, with an irrelevant comment. What Christ said isn't even closely related to Heb 2:9.

Common sense does understand that Christ's comment is limited to one's own time frame and location, and cannot have anything to do with every single person in history.

But Heb 2:9 has no such limitation on it. It says that Christ died for all, and means exactly that.

Just because Jesus' use of "all" in the statement provided couldn't possibly refer to everyone in humanity, in no way influences how the writer of Hebrews used it.

Common sense also understands that Heb 2:9 contextually is dealing with sons of God not children of Satan..


Gotta laugh here , FG 2 has recently stated God chastises only his own sons and not the Devils children , chastisement being a mark of Gods Love ', it is a remarkable twist that according to Fg2s view God loves the children of the devil enough to die for them but NOT enough to chastise them and spare them !


Here's FG giving his views ;

"I explained it. What was not understood? The issue for the believer who apostatizes is the "hand of God" applied to them, meaning that their lives will certainly not be pleasant, if you get my drift. iow, The Father spanks His children. God doesn't spank the children of the devil. " FG2

"How is it possible for the unbeliever to ever be better off than a lapsed christian who, even despite their falling away, is going to heaven?"

"Again, I explained it. God spanks His rebellious children, which makes their life on earth "worse off" than the children of the devil, who aren't being spanked by God. Peter wasn't speaking about being either better off or worse off eternally, but temporally, on this earth." FG2

 

[stan1953]

Can't think of a single one scripture you have posted which does mean all without exception ...... They are all limited by context and other data.

which means?

What is Acts 17:30 saying?

 

[cygnusx1]

which means?

What is Acts 17:30 saying?

What is it saying ?

Quote it in full , thanks

 

[stan1953]

Gotta laugh here , FG 2 has recently stated God chastises only his own sons and not the Devils children , chastisement being a mark of Gods Love ', it is a remarkable twist that according to Fg2s view God loves the children of the devil enough to die for them but NOT enough to chastise them and spare them !

Let's try not being so equivocal about the language of scripture here.
God loves the world. What He created. Not the system we now have but the life that is in it. I think John 3:16 is pretty clear for most who read it.
1 John 3:10 defines who is who in our world, and Heb 12:6 defines who God disciplines.

Agreed?

 

[stan1953]

What is it saying ?

Quote it in full , thanks

I did. Please don't play games.

 

[janxharris]

which means?

What is Acts 17:30 saying?

Good one. Another scripture that proves that every man has the opportunity to do that which is commanded of him.

 

[cygnusx1]

I did. Please don't play games.

I'm not playing games , I just don't carry an open bible next to my ipad , and I don't need to keep flicking back to olde posts , ok , I'll go back to an older post for you and find the exact words ......

Acts 17:30

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Yes , God commands all people every where to repent , this is certainly speaking about the truth Of the Gospel being taken to all people , the truth that has NOW , grasp that thought , at last been revealed , for from the coming of. Christ the world has entered a new era , before God overlooked such ignorance in men , but now all are commanded to repent .....


The "all" cannot include millions who lived before Christ but only those who lived after the Gospel era , the clue is in the words "but now" .

You can argue all men means all men till the cows come home , it will not change the text.

 

[stan1953]

I'm not playing games , I just don't carry an open bible next to my ipad , and I don't need to keep flicking back to olde posts , ok , I'll go back to an older post for you and find the exact words ......

That is what the links are for in the quotation part, and I'm pretty sure iPads can have more than one browser window open at a time, even if it is the Mac OS. I always run my browser with a tab open at Biblegateway.com....very easy peasy.

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Yes , God commands all people every where to repent , this is certainly speaking about the truth Of the Gospel being taken to all people , the truth that has NOW , grasp that thought , at last been revealed , for from the coming of. Christ the world has entered a new era , before God overlooked such ignorance in men , but now all are commanded to repent .....
The "all" cannot include millions who lived before Christ but only those who lived after the Gospel era , the clue is in the words "but now" .
You can argue all men means all men till the cows come home , it will not change the text.

See, wasn't that hard was it?
I don't get this...you acknowledge and even quote the part twice that states: "In the past God overlooked such ignorance",
then you say the past isn't included in all? HELLO?
This is being totally equivocal. Try not being so disingenuous please. I like to debate people but NOT when they can't be honest and upfront about what they post.
Bottom line is Jesus came to die for ALL sin for ALL time.

The Bible says that Jesus died for all; therefore, Jesus died for all. God so loved the world, not just the Christian, that He died for everyone and it is up to the person to accept or reject Jesus. If he rejects Jesus, then the atonement is not applied to the person and he will go to hell. But, Jesus' sacrifice was not only sufficient for all, but intended for all.

Scriptures used to support an unlimited atonement are as follows:
Jesus died for everyone
John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
John 4:42, "and they were saying to the woman, 'It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.'"
1 Tim. 4:10, "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
1 John 4:14, "And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."
Quoted from: Did Jesus die for everyone? My Calvinist friends say no. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Now there is the fact that Jesus went to preach to all the souls in prison AFTER He died, and that Abraham and those like him, were saved because of their faith in God's promise of Jesus, so YES, all means ALL.

 

[stan1953]

Good one. Another scripture that proves that every man has the opportunity to do that which is commanded of him.

Thanks, I thought so... I wonder some times why I post the actual scripture when people don't even read it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Common sense also understands that Heb 2:9 contextually is dealing with sons of God not children of Satan..


Gotta laugh here , FG 2 has recently stated God chastises only his own sons and not the Devils children , chastisement being a mark of Gods Love ', it is a remarkable twist that according to Fg2s view God loves the children of the devil enough to die for them but NOT enough to chastise them and spare them !


Here's FG giving his views ;

"I explained it. What was not understood? The issue for the believer who apostatizes is the "hand of God" applied to them, meaning that their lives will certainly not be pleasant, if you get my drift. iow, The Father spanks His children. God doesn't spank the children of the devil. " FG2

"How is it possible for the unbeliever to ever be better off than a lapsed christian who, even despite their falling away, is going to heaven?"

"Again, I explained it. God spanks His rebellious children, which makes their life on earth "worse off" than the children of the devil, who aren't being spanked by God. Peter wasn't speaking about being either better off or worse off eternally, but temporally, on this earth." FG2

How sad that my explanations aren't being grasped.

 

[cygnusx1]

How sad that my explanations aren't being grasped.

Oh they are grasped just fine , you just always use this card when someone quotes you !

 

[cygnusx1]

That is what the links are for in the quotation part, and I'm pretty sure iPads can have more than one browser window open at a time, even if it is the Mac OS. I always run my browser with a tab open at Biblegateway.com....very easy peasy.




See, wasn't that hard was it?
I don't get this...you acknowledge and even quote the part twice that states: "In the past God overlooked such ignorance",
then you say the past isn't included in all? HELLO?
This is being totally equivocal. Try not being so disingenuous please. I like to debate people but NOT when they can't be honest and upfront about what they post.
Bottom line is Jesus came to die for ALL sin for ALL time.

The Bible says that Jesus died for all; therefore, Jesus died for all. God so loved the world, not just the Christian, that He died for everyone and it is up to the person to accept or reject Jesus. If he rejects Jesus, then the atonement is not applied to the person and he will go to hell. But, Jesus' sacrifice was not only sufficient for all, but intended for all.

Scriptures used to support an unlimited atonement are as follows:
Jesus died for everyone
John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
John 4:42, "and they were saying to the woman, 'It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.'"
1 Tim. 4:10, "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
1 John 4:14, "And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."
Quoted from: Did Jesus die for everyone? My Calvinist friends say no. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Now there is the fact that Jesus went to preach to all the souls in prison AFTER He died, and that Abraham and those like him, were saved because of their faith in God's promise of Jesus, so YES, all means ALL.

Where do I say the past isn't included in all ? Try making sense , how does in the past God overlooked ignorance contextually fit your argument ?

As for the ret of your post , it's not relevant .

 

[FreeGrace2]

Oh they are grasped just fine , you just always use this card when someone quotes you !

No, only when they don't understand what I have posted.

 

[cygnusx1]

No, only when they don't understand what I have posted.

So you keep saying even though you are quoted , your fighting yourself if you deny your own sentences , maybe you like doing that ?