What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[Elder 111]

Its interesting how certain things have completely reversed since the Cross. The very Cross that his way of life denies having actually taken place. He does acknowledge the historical crucifixion, but he keeps failing to see the life that came out of the Cross of Jesus Christ. That really does not mean he is not saved. Only that his rejection of grace leaves us wondering if he is saved. A believer who rejects grace, yet wants to follow Scripture. Is like a religious Jew who follows Scripture who never believed in Christ.

What is this about rejecting grace? Grace came only at the cross? grace replaced the Ten Commandments? What did Noah have? Gen. 6:8. What did Adam and Cain, and Abraham received that they did not die immediately for there sins? Law? It hurts me that you have not a true concept of the Gospel but want to speak with great authority. How does the Ten commandments work against grace?

The Lord is not pleased with those whom reject his grace. In the age of the Jews they were approved of God by what they chose to obey and do.

You are joking?

In this age of grace, we are approved of God when we choose to be willing to become transformed inwardly by the Spirit. Obeying the Law was only an outward conformity.

So because I have the holy Sprirt in my heart i will not be too concern about how I treat God holy law? Like the first first that says Thou should have no other God but me? Would not the Holy Spirit lead me in that direction as with all of God requirements in the Ten Commandments?

Walking in grace and truth, is having God reach in our innermost man and molding and transforming us supernaturally into sharing the thinking of Christ. We have been given the mind of Christ. That is, if we choose to walk in the Spirit and perceive Truth, and begin to look at reality through the eyes of God. God the Holy Spirit.

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18



.
​

But the Ten Commandments came from God! Paul describes them as Holy, Just and Good Rom. 7:12. Is not God also Holy Just and Good. Is that not a reflect of God' character? How can you have His Spirit and not reflect His character?

 

[VictorC]

<snip>
But the Ten Commandments came from God! Paul describes them as Holy, Just and Good Rom. 7:12. Is not God also Holy Just and Good. Is that not a reflect of God' character? How can you have His Spirit and not reflect His character?

The same passage also says "we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by", and identifies 'the law' as the Ten Commandments in the very next verse.

You've seen this dozens of times. Yet you aren't able to absorb what Romans 7 actually says, because it interferes with Adventist theology. Every one of your posts promote error stemming from rejection of Holy Writ, and you would do better reading content instead of finding ways to reject it. It isn't possible to hear the Spirit with your mouth open.

 

[Elder 111]

But the Ten Commandments came from God! Paul describes them as Holy, Just and Good Rom. 7:12. Is not God also Holy Just and Good. Is that not a reflect of God' character? How can you have His Spirit and not reflect His character?

The same passage also says "we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by", and identifies 'the law' as the Ten Commandments in the very next verse.

You've seen this dozens of times. Yet you aren't able to absorb what Romans 7 actually says, because it interferes with Adventist theology. Every one of your posts promote error stemming from rejection of Holy Writ, and you would do better reading content instead of finding ways to reject it. It isn't possible to hear the Spirit with your mouth open.

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!

 

[from scratch]

What is this about rejecting grace? Grace came only at the cross? grace replaced the Ten Commandments? What did Noah have? Gen. 6:8. What did Adam and Cain, and Abraham received that they did not die immediately for there sins? Law? It hurts me that you have not a true concept of the Gospel but want to speak with great authority. How does the Ten commandments work against grace?


You are joking?

So because I have the holy Sprirt in my heart i will not be too concern about how I treat God holy law? Like the first first that says Thou should have no other God but me? Would not the Holy Spirit lead me in that direction as with all of God requirements in the Ten Commandments?

But the Ten Commandments came from God! Paul describes them as Holy, Just and Good Rom. 7:12. Is not God also Holy Just and Good. Is that not a reflect of God' character? How can you have His Spirit and not reflect His character?

If one has already chosen to serve God alone, how could they then be led to do so?

 

[from scratch]

But the Ten Commandments came from God! Paul describes them as Holy, Just and Good Rom. 7:12. Is not God also Holy Just and Good. Is that not a reflect of God' character? How can you have His Spirit and not reflect His character?

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!

Did Jeremiah quote God or not? Same goes for Hosea.

 

[GenemZ]

What is this about rejecting grace? Grace came only at the cross? grace replaced the Ten Commandments? What did Noah have? Gen. 6:8. What did Adam and Cain, and Abraham received that they did not die immediately for there sins? Law? It hurts me that you have not a true concept of the Gospel but want to speak with great authority. How does the Ten commandments work against grace?

I was not just talking about grace. There are different applications of grace granted by God to men. Without salvation grace no man can be saved. Without grace Moses could not have been saved. I am talking about a spiritual life that can be continuously enabled by grace. For the Church age believer receives a special gift from God at salvation that the OT believers did not receive.

1 Peter 1:8-11

Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see
him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to
come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out
the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing
when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

​

That passage tells us that Christians have been given a special grace gift that OT believers did not possess. Yet? You wish to emulate those who wished they had lived in our day, as to be granted this grace.

Grace is supernatural endowed power that is given from God. Enabling power. Without God giving us this power? Our flesh would need to be constrained by Law. You apparently know nothing of this power if you think following the Law pleases God. Following the Law is a way of saying you have rejected the Holy Spirit's enabling.

So because I have the holy Sprirt in my heart i will not be too concern about how I treat God holy law?

You have the Holy Spirit is in YOUR body! Not your heart.

1 Corinthians 6:19

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit
who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?


​

It says your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, not your heart. Now, you are to have Jesus Christ living in your heart. Through Truth from God's Word that you have come to believe = faith.

Ephesians 3:16-18

I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen
you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.
And I pray that you, being rooted and established in
love, may have power, together with all the Lord&#8217;s holy
people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep
is the love of Christ.


​

One who knows could not be too sure you do possess the Holy Spirit. For does a man who has had a full recovery and now should be runnning for miles every day? Show concern for the old crutches?

Its evident to us that the Holy Spirit is not working in you. We can see it. You still can not. Its the very reason why we do not, and can not, accept what you try to promote here. You are doing only what an unregenerate mind can do that desires to please God in the sphere of a deeply held religious sentiment. Just like Catholics observe lent, or do Rosary. Its a similar type of drive of the flesh of a person with a religious bent.

True Christianity is not a religion. Religion is man following and accomplishing prescribed things to do in a desire to please God. Its in hope of winning his approval. In contrast to religion, Christianity is having a spiritual relationship with God because Jesus Christ has made the believer accepted to God through his death, burial, and resurrection. No works on our part. Jesus did the work on our behalf. Jesus made us accepted to God. We do not have to work for that acceptance. The Law had such a requirement.

OT saints needed the Law because it was designed to restrain and constrain the flesh that did not have our grace. The Law also served other purposes as well. Such as the representative animal sacrifices used as teaching tools that would lead to understanding atonement and propitiation of God.

The Church age believer who is filled with the Spirit has no need for law-crutches. He has no need for Law. He is to spiritually mature and to enter into God's rest which should be a 24 hour a day experience, not just on one day of the week. Even while working, they have this rest if they mature in Christ.

Hebrews 3:7-11
​

So, as the Holy Spirit says:&#8220;Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,where your
ancestors tested and tried me,though for forty years
they saw what I did.That is why I was angry with that
generation;I said, &#8216;Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.&#8217;So I declared on oath
in my anger, &#8216;They shall never enter my rest.&#8217; &#8221;


​

By the way. Those Jews who did not enter his rest? Were keeping the Sabbath.

Yet they never entered God's rest. Their rest would have been God causing outward circumstances to cause them to become secure and confident. With the Church, the rest we enter into is inward. Having rest even when the outward circumstances around us are not conducive to what, humanly speaking, produces the feelings of security. Paul had to learn to be content in all circumstances. In having plenty, and having not. Philippians 4:11-12.

 

[GenemZ]

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!

Are you saying that crutches are not good for a man with crippled legs?

But, does he keep using them after he has had a full recovery???

The crutches were holy and good. They served a good purpose.

Paul said the the Law made him aware of being a sinner. Did that make the Law bad? No! Like crutches will make you aware that your legs are not doing what they are supposed to be doing.

 

[VictorC]

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!

Where do you come up with these imaginary arguments? It is as if you're trying very hard to validate our observations.
Anyway...
Romans 7:6 was clearly quoted in part for you: "we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by".
Now, can you answer why God chose to deliver us from the Ten Commandments?

 

[GenemZ]

Where do you come up with these imaginary arguments? It is as if you're trying very hard to validate our observations.
Anyway...
Romans 7:6 was clearly quoted in part for you: "we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by".
Now, can you answer why God chose to deliver us from the Ten Commandments?

He has already been shown that. He can not hear, it appears.

Is he becoming a bad habit? I think we should just pack up our bags and leave him to his delusion.

 

[Sophrosyne]

He has already been shown that. He can not hear, it appears.

Is he becoming a bad habit? I think we should just pack up our bags and leave him to his delusion.

I've learned long ago that some here aren't really debating they are more evangelizing instead they just use the reply feature to quote some of your stuff then "teach" their garbage.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Bump for Elder 111.

The whole sacrificial system was a religious-cult-practise and it was changed by God not by "us". The seventh day as a day of rest and religious ceremony was a religious-cult-practise and it was changed by God not by "us". The moral requirement to give rest to one's employees and to take rest for one's self remains and "we" carry it out by following apostolic example of rest & worship on the first day of the week if that is possible. And since "Sabbath" means "rest" it follows that the rest Christians take as a sign of the rest that Christians receive in Christ is the Sabbath of God.

Show me when and where the Sabbath was changed by God! Unbiblical. Hogwash. Must be the pork eating.

Jesus said, the weekly rest was made for man and not man for the sake of the weekly rest. What counts is service for the benefit of man. Not slavery to rules and dictates of human religious law makers.

The context is as follows:

Mark 2:23 One Sabbath he was going through the cornfields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” 25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: 26 how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?” 27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”​

The NT develops the OT teaching on the Sabbath in three important directions. It declares that the Sabbath should not be observed in a legalistic manner; the Sabbath-rest is treated as an important symbol of the Christian doctrine of salvation; and finally, the NT itself indicates how Sunday, rather than Saturday, came to be seen as the Christian Sabbath.

Ceremonial observance must give way before any higher, or more spiritual, motive Mt 12:5-6 See also Lk 6:5

Sabbath reading of Scripture provided an opportunity for reaching the JewsAc 17:2 See also Ac 13:14,27,42,44; Ac 15:21; Ac 16:13; Ac 18:4

Sabbath observance was optional for Gentile ChristiansCol 2:16

The Lord’s DayRev 1:10 At an early stage the Sabbath was replaced by Sunday (the first day of the week) as the day for rest and worship. See also Jn 20:19,26; Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2

The Sabbath-rest is seen as a symbol of the salvation of the people of GodHeb 4:1 The OT promise of rest was unfulfilled, on account of Israel’s disobedience; Heb 3:18-19; Heb 4:9 The OT promise of rest remains open.​

 

[GenemZ]

I've learned long ago that some here aren't really debating they are more evangelizing instead they just use the reply feature to quote some of your stuff then "teach" their garbage.

That is not evangelizing. Its attempted brainwashing.

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

Paul Joseph Goebbels (29 October 1897 – 1 May 1945) was Adolf Hitler's Propaganda Minister.
​

 

[GenemZ]

The mistake we will be making at this point would be to continue to try to reason with him. He has proven himself to be unwilling to reason. He is as a man who is hypnotized.

Galatians 3:1-3

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes
Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just
one thing from you:

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing
what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of
the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?


​

He is bewitched by his sect. He is trying to fulfill what should be the new spiritual life as if he jumped into a time machine, and now wants to fulfill it by means of his flesh by following the Law... even if its only a part of he Law.

I am about to give up on him. Why? God is omniscient. The Spirit is to lead each one of us into all truth. Why not him?

He is without any excuse. He is rebelling against God, not us. And, because he walks according to his flesh, he has made himself too dull to hear anything to see a way out.

Leave him to God. Some folks will need to be crushed by God before they will wake up. That is, if he is a truly a child of God, and not just some foolish religious person. Either way. As it stands right now? He is not able to be reasoned with. Its become pathological and he can not face what he is shown with integrity and honesty. All he can do is to repeat words that indicate that he suffers from a bad case of self approval.

I plan to bow out of studying his case soon. Its not going anywhere good.



​

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!
​

Are you saying that crutches are not good for a man with crippled legs?

But, does he keep using them after he has had a full recovery???

The crutches were holy and good. They served a good purpose.

Paul said the the Law made him aware of being a sinner. Did that make the Law bad? No! Like crutches will make you aware that your legs are not doing what they are supposed to be doing.

You did not answer the question.

 

[Elder 111]

The mistake we will be making at this point would be to continue to try to reason with him. He has proven himself to be unwilling to reason. He is as a man who is hypnotized.

Galatians 3:1-3

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes
Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just
one thing from you:

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing
what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of
the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?


​

He is bewitched by his sect. He is trying to fulfill what should be the new spiritual life as if he jumped into a time machine, and now wants to fulfill it by means of his flesh by following the Law... even if its only a part of he Law.

I am about to give up on him. Why? God is omniscient. The Spirit is to lead each one of us into all truth. Why not him?

He is without any excuse. He is rebelling against God, not us. And, because he walks according to his flesh, he has made himself too dull to hear anything to see a way out.

Leave him to God. Some folks will need to be crushed by God before they will wake up. That is, if he is a truly a child of God, and not just some foolish religious person. Either way. As it stands right now? He is not able to be reasoned with. Its become pathological and he can not face what he is shown with integrity and honesty. All he can do is to repeat words that indicate that he suffers from a bad case of self approval.

I plan to bow out of studying his case soon. Its not going anywhere good.



​

To be honest with you, it will not go anywhere until you can explain why God's holy law is against His grace? Why must Christians dismiss God's hand written requirement to worship Him alone? Romans 5:20 make a very salient point that negate grace replacing law.
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Grace is because of sin which is the result of violating the same Ten Commandments. If there is therfore no law for the Christain, there is no need for grace.
Of Course one of us is on the wrong track, but is it me? Should the remarks you have made be to me or yourself and the rest that hold your views?
To God be the glory and the honor.

 

[VictorC]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Are you the saying that the Ten Commandments is not Holy Just and good? Or that we have been delivered from that which is holy just and good? Explain for all to see!
​

You did not answer the question.

Neither did you. Why does Romans 7 clearly indicate we've been delivered from the Ten Commandments? And as a follow up question, who is the 'we' that "have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by"? As a Gentile from Barbados, does this passage even include you?
The immediate context answers all of these questions. We would like to see you address them, as we have.

 

[VictorC]

To be honest with you, it will not go anywhere until you can explain why God's holy law is against His grace? Why must Christians dismiss God's hand written requirement to worship Him alone? Romans 5:20 make a very salient point that negate grace replacing law.
...
Grace is because of sin which is the result of violating the same Ten Commandments.

This is where cognitive dissonance takes over in your post, where it becomes clear that you can't differentiate transgression from sin. Romans 5 even refers to the origin of Adam's sin via a transgression that isn't even in the Mosaic covenant. At this point you can't explain how sin existed in mankind thousands of years before the Ten Commandments existed.

 

[VictorC]

Where do you come up with these imaginary arguments? It is as if you're trying very hard to validate our observations.
Anyway...
Romans 7:6 was clearly quoted in part for you: "we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by".
Now, can you answer why God chose to deliver us from the Ten Commandments?

He has already been shown that. He can not hear, it appears.

Is he becoming a bad habit? I think we should just pack up our bags and leave him to his delusion.

The mistake we will be making at this point would be to continue to try to reason with him. He has proven himself to be unwilling to reason. He is as a man who is hypnotized.

I am about to give up on him. Why? God is omniscient. The Spirit is to lead each one of us into all truth. Why not him?

He is without any excuse. He is rebelling against God, not us.

I've learned long ago that some here aren't really debating they are more evangelizing instead they just use the reply feature to quote some of your stuff then "teach" their garbage.

Elder111, do you have anything to redeem yourself from the theological garbage can? I tend to concur with these gentlemen that you have no interest in the Gospel, and your reason to exist is to drive all who read your posts away from the land of insanity known commonly as the seventh-day Adventist "church".

 

[Sophrosyne]

Elder111, do you have anything to redeem yourself from the theological garbage can? I tend to concur with these gentlemen that you have no interest in the Gospel, and your reason to exist is to drive all who read your posts away from the land of insanity known commonly as the seventh-day Adventist "church".

That is why I am glad SDA are here, their arguments show how they reject Paul almost entirely only hanging on to his Gospel of Grace for convenience when they purposely break the Law so nobody can throw rocks at them and they don't have to deal harshly with those who break God's Holy Law. I say the form of the Law they adhere to isn't Holy...... but rather Holey where they cut out the parts they don't like.

 

[GenemZ]

To be honest with you, it will not go anywhere until you can explain why God's holy law is against His grace?

Read the following carefully. Read it several times if need be. But, read it as if you were reading it for the first time, and not as you have been trained and inculcated to see it.

Romans 7:11-12

For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law
is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
​

What that is saying?


Here is the key...






The Law was holy because it was always there to tell Paul what is sin. For without the Law man would not understand what sin is. For all men sin. The Law is holy, because it tells man that he sins! That he is a sinner!

Like a holy guardian, the Law does not let us get away with wrong doing! Its like a strict loving parent who tells us what not to do, and tells us off when we have done something wrong.

But?

The Law can not make us holy. It can only tell us how wrong we are. In doing so, it prevents in man the delusion of self righteousness when its properly accepted.

The Law can only tell us how we are not holy! That we need a Savior, is its message.

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law.
​

Now that Christians have the Spirit from the inside (OT believers did not) helping us not to sin, we no longer need the Law to warn us from the outside and tell us off when we sin. We are a new creation in Christ, and have died to having need for the Law to be our big brother.