Deliverance Ministry

[talitha]

michael and Matjohluk, wow, that's a lot of words.... I kind of feel lost in them - like we're not having a discussion anymore..... just saying....

Imagine for a moment what goes on in cults, and in other religions where people are taught to listen to other spirits instead of God. What do you think happens? Do Mormon prophets learn how to listen to the angel Moroni? Or how to fake prophecies using tricks they've been taught by those who trained them?

Right now I'm reading the autobiography of a fourth generation African witch-doctor whose life was radically changed when he encountered Jesus. His description of his training as a wizard takes up a large chunk of the book; he says that Jesus commissioned him to tell the Church about the realities of the demonic realm, since he had gone very deeply into that. From the time he was a child, demons were a part of his everyday life. He thought they were his servants, but upon meeting Jesus, he realized he had been their slave. The demons had tricked him - an elaborate ruse that took up his entire childhood and part of his adulthood.

I'm not sure about Mormon prophets. I suspect that as the years have gone by, they most likely have been abandoned by Moroni and the other deceptive spirits, and they are just faking it. Not even bothering to fake it. Just living in the swamps of a demonic revelation that once was.

This could be the same problem we are facing in Charismatic churches today. That for so long, people have been faking the gifts of the Spirit that we are no better than a cult. And because our leaders have taught us to trust in them rather than the leading of the Spirit, we really don't have the tools it takes to discern spirits so that we can even do a proper deliverance if we want to!

This is exactly what I'm afraid I'm seeing.
....like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.....

"Learning how to accurately hear God is not that hard..... So why are so many churches so far behind on learning this?"
Partly because so many pastors - not having had a real encounter with Jesus but only an affinity for the written Word, or for talking - have come to believe that the Christian faith is just about mentally assenting to the truth, and that we really don't have to learn to hear from God.

I think the problem is usually because the pastor wants all the glory.

Really? I know and work with many pastors, and my dad is one. All of the pastors I know truly believe they are giving God glory, even the bad ones. What they don't know is that that is not their job! Their job is to give the church glory! ha, I just realized that. (wow, that could be a whole 'nother thread)

And thus, any hope we have of being trained in church to accurately discern spirits, is sacrificed at the altar of Man.

I think that there is truth in that statement, but it's all so covered up in Christianese and the good intentions of many people that hardly anyone knows it.

 

[Alithis]

michael and Matjohluk, wow, that's a lot of words.... I kind of feel lost in them - like we're not having a discussion anymore..... just saying....


Right now I'm reading the autobiography of a fourth generation African witch-doctor whose life was radically changed when he encountered Jesus. His description of his training as a wizard takes up a large chunk of the book; he says that Jesus commissioned him to tell the Church about the realities of the demonic realm, since he had gone very deeply into that. From the time he was a child, demons were a part of his everyday life. He thought they were his servants, but upon meeting Jesus, he realized he had been their slave. The demons had tricked him - an elaborate ruse that took up his entire childhood and part of his adulthood.

I'm not sure about Mormon prophets. I suspect that as the years have gone by, they most likely have been abandoned by Moroni and the other deceptive spirits, and they are just faking it. Not even bothering to fake it. Just living in the swamps of a demonic revelation that once was.


This is exactly what I'm afraid I'm seeing.
....like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.....

"Learning how to accurately hear God is not that hard..... So why are so many churches so far behind on learning this?"
Partly because so many pastors - not having had a real encounter with Jesus but only an affinity for the written Word, or for talking - have come to believe that the Christian faith is just about mentally assenting to the truth, and that we really don't have to learn to hear from God.


Really? I know and work with many pastors, and my dad is one. All of the pastors I know truly believe they are giving God glory, even the bad ones. What they don't know is that that is not their job! Their job is to give the church glory! ha, I just realized that. (wow, that could be a whole 'nother thread)


I think that there is truth in that statement, but it's all so covered up in Christianese and the good intentions of many people that hardly anyone knows it.

we do get a bit long winded haha.but in text i find it is expedient to ,at times,over express ,so as to avoid some folks who misconstrue what we say. .
Check out Job again...now there's a discussion lol.

 

[Willie T]

michael and Matjohluk, wow, that's a lot of words.... I kind of feel lost in them - like we're not having a discussion anymore..... just saying....


Right now I'm reading the autobiography of a fourth generation African witch-doctor whose life was radically changed when he encountered Jesus. His description of his training as a wizard takes up a large chunk of the book; he says that Jesus commissioned him to tell the Church about the realities of the demonic realm, since he had gone very deeply into that. From the time he was a child, demons were a part of his everyday life. He thought they were his servants, but upon meeting Jesus, he realized he had been their slave. The demons had tricked him - an elaborate ruse that took up his entire childhood and part of his adulthood.

I'm not sure about Mormon prophets. I suspect that as the years have gone by, they most likely have been abandoned by Moroni and the other deceptive spirits, and they are just faking it. Not even bothering to fake it. Just living in the swamps of a demonic revelation that once was.


This is exactly what I'm afraid I'm seeing.
....like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.....

"Learning how to accurately hear God is not that hard..... So why are so many churches so far behind on learning this?"
Partly because so many pastors - not having had a real encounter with Jesus but only an affinity for the written Word, or for talking - have come to believe that the Christian faith is just about mentally assenting to the truth, and that we really don't have to learn to hear from God.


Really? I know and work with many pastors, and my dad is one. All of the pastors I know truly believe they are giving God glory, even the bad ones. What they don't know is that that is not their job! Their job is to give the church glory! ha, I just realized that. (wow, that could be a whole 'nother thread)


I think that there is truth in that statement, but it's all so covered up in Christianese and the good intentions of many people that hardly anyone knows it.

I fully understand what you are saying here, but, Boy, could THAT statement ever be misunderstood. :o

 

[Matjohluk]

Hi Tobias,

When you have had personal experiences with the beings of the supernatural realm, and watch all the illusionists that are now appearing out of the woodwork, it’s time that the Body of Christ realise they have been duped by the Church for the past 1800 years. We call it all magic, magick, smokes and mirrors and all of those descriptions are part and parcel of peer pressure that is brought to bear upon anyone who is within a world culture of religions. The ancient people knew exactly what was going on and the reason for the Church for destroying ancient tribal cultures of today.

For a Christian to see angels as being from another world ( outer-space, or inner-space) are accused of hierarchy and you should be burnt at the stake, and are not a Bible believing Christian. What a lot of rubbish.

Yes, most churches have been faking or deliberately deceiving and destroying the real knowledge and understanding of the Word of God, which began when much of the Jewish books of knowledge were destroyed by the Church during the period of the founding of Roman Christianity in 300Ad and for the next 1200 years as the Popes began to destroy all knowledge.

The leaders of the Charismatic movement are deceivers and always have been, the rubbish of being slain in the spirit is demonisation, and most churches invite the Kundalini spirit into their church through many other far eastern religion practices that they believe makes them Christian if you add the world “Christian” to the name. Prayer soaking is one such abomination and Christian yoga and martial arts are the other un-Biblical practices.

Hearing our Heavenly Father is very simple, because our heart is our spiritual mind and if we feel uneasy when we do something or say something we know very quickly that it’s our Lord speaking to us through our spirit. He uses us all the time; as I am being used right now punching my keyboard, and making a comment on your posting. It’s all basic stuff, and the churches of the past 1800 years have deliberately destroyed His knowledge and understanding of “The Way”, and made it a religion. Keep the faith and look to the heavens because that is where your answers are.

The churches are not far behind in learning this, because most churches are infiltrated by the enemy and most church leaders are advocates for the enemy, knowingly and unknowingly. It’s sad that pastors are conned into believing that they are the only person who received a piece of paper from another false person to say that they are now qualified to teach and preach the false gospel that is completely corrupted by the college they attended. Yep, that piece of paper he can hang upon his wall to tell the world that he is a godly person, and now all around must listen to what he has to say. If you challenge this idol, then look out.

We need to go back to real and true Scriptures that sadly have been lost and destroyed by the leaders of the Roman Church, and to read those books that they failed to cannonise. In 1969 the evil one made it an order that the Word of God is to be destroyed, and his spies in the churches and colleges made sure that would be so. Many believe that they were only producing a “user friendly” Bible, but they didn’t see the watering-down that distorted, changed, deleted, and added to the real truth that users believe to be the Word of God. The Body of Christ is so deceived, and cannot see the damaging effect it is having.

It’s time that the churches begin to CONSIDER THEIR WAYS!

 

[Matjohluk]

Sorry Talitha, but when we get old, we do get a bit long-winded. I guess, I am trying to lay another foundation for discussion.

It’s interesting when you read a story from one who practiced the known secrets of the supernatural realm. We know the secrets but political correctness of Christendom will not allow us to explore the depths of such things, even though the early believer were very aware and had the knowledge and understanding of it all.

The secrets are locked away in many un-cannonised Books of the Bible that are lying on the shelves gathering dust. The Books of Enoch give very good insight of what was going on in the Ancient of Days and the knowledge and understanding of who the Nephlim, gods, and watchers are. Did you know that the Nephlim were actually referred to as “duds”, and any children from their copulation were “females”, and that is why they were called “duds”?

We all seem to use the phrases that “the demons tricked us” or “Satan tricked us”, which are in fact the dark angels, Nephlim, sons of gods and watchers.

To understand the heavenly and earthly things, we need to understand the real truth of the dark angels, sons of gods, and watchers. The dogma on these things are so distorted that if you attempt to go there you are threatened. The boogie man stories are real and so are the leprechauns, because all the real knowledge and understanding has been stolen, destroyed and killed by the principalities and powers of the churches.

Yes, church goers are being deceived by the same spirits as the witchdoctor was, and he now knows the truth, but 80% of the Body of Christ is still floundering around in the untruth.

Before the Mormons the Cherokee Indians knew more of the Jewish language and law.

Pastors, are the end results of a corrupt system that was laid down hundreds of years ago, and they know no better, because they can only teach what they have been taught, and are too frighten to step out in our Lord Jesus Christ, because they know that their life would be lonely if they did so. They would become a social outcast. Most pastors are ear ticklers, searching for “itchy ears”, and the delights of the spirit of mammon. When a pastor teaches “tithing” that is when I walk out of that church, because the spirit of mammon is in control and that church needs deliverance.


Church business is figurehead business, I could write many pages on the false teachers and prophets of today, but my job isn’t to do this, but to stay true to our Yeshua HaMashiach, spread His Word (the real Word) and not the watered-down version we see being carried into churches these days.

It’s sad when pastors don’t understand that their role is to feed HIS Sheep with MEAT and not MILK. They are to teach them HIS Commandments, confession of sin, repentance, forgiveness, and love, and then to teach them how to submit to HIM, to draw near to HIM, to cleanse their hands, to purify their hearts, to resist the evil one, and to be humble. Hey, what church teaches these things? In doing these things they will keep their house full (not empty), cleansed and purified (not swept), and walk in the Spirit of God and truth (not put in order). Then the deliverance ministry wouldn’t be needed, because deliverance doesn’t replace all these requirements of being a believer of our Yeshua, our Lord Jesus Christ.

It’s sad when pastors of all churches have their own agenda, and not our Lord’s agenda.

Blessings

 

[Matjohluk]

Hi Talitha,

I love discussions, I am so sorry for being long-winded, but you did say you wanted to learn something about the deliverance ministry, that is, being His disciple or working behind closed doors?

Before you can discuss anything, you need to build a firm platform. I will now go back to your first posting to see if a discussion can be developed, but we do need to consider some Biblical pointers, because I believe these may also answer some of the questions that you asked.
1. We do know that Scripture does attest to demonic possession, oppression, suppression, torture, torment and harassment.

2. Our Lord Jesus Christ gave you and me, His disciples, power over all evil, and that has never been withdrawn, and was never given to the “elect”! Our failure to conquer and overcome the evil one is not due to the shortage of divine power, but rather to our human negligence that came about by false teaching and fairy-floss beliefs. We don’t see this at all in any church today, particularly when we witness the healing of a demon-possessed child by our Messiah in Matthew 17:14-19, Mark 9:14-28, and Luke 9:37-42:

“When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. ‘Lord, have mercy on my son,’ he said. ‘He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
‘You unbelieving and perverse generation,’ Jesus replied, ‘how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.’ Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.”
I have been put in that place a number of times in my travels with our Yeshua, and sadly this Biblical evidence in the above verses isn’t evident in most 21st Century churches. There are so many other events recorded in Scriptures were Christ’s followers defeated Satan and his forces who were exercising their faith in His Name. But, we don’t see this in churches at all today; we only see false faith and false deliverances.

3. We are cautioned throughout Scriptures to be sober, vigilant, and careful when dealing with spiritual entities; and are told not to "believe every spirit," but rather to "test the spirits to see whether they are from God."

We are told by our Messiah to: “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.”

Therefore, we are encouraged to test the fruit of all people as our means of evaluating, but not judging and individual. And we could then ask: “What is the fruit of the so-called deliverance ministry?” Every church under the influence of this ministry has been adversely affected and to the point of the Good News being stolen, destroyed and killed by the splitting of those churches.

4. Our Lord’s exorcisms were not conducted behind closed doors or in secret, and were very brief, and today we see these counterfeit ministries trying to reenact the casting out the spirits from the pigs (see Matthew 8:32) in a stage play spectacular, and why their ministering has to go on for hours and hours behind closed doors, tells me of their lack of authority and faith in our Yeshua HaMashiach.

5. Then we find many of these ministries conversing with demons, when our Lord Jesus Christ never initiated conversation with any demon. Why this ministry establishes a dialogue with demons under the guise of asking the Holy Spirit to make them talk and identify themselves by name is beyond any Biblical comprehension, and is nothing more than a farce. A demon is a demon, and a liar!

6. Our Messiah "drove out the spirits with a word" (Matt. 8:16), and the only brief conversation He had with a demon consisted of the question in Mark 5:9: "What is your name?" In Mark 1:34 and Luke 4:41 our Messiah wouldn’t allow the demons to speak. People need to know that any deliverance ministry that starts lengthy discussion with spirits is practicing occultism and spiritism.

7. When Yeshua cast out demons, they all went at once, not one at a time as some deliverance ministries require, but I am very aware as in the case of the “legion” into the pigs by our Yeshua, if all the demons left a person at the same time they could cause a person a real health problem.

8. Deliverance ministries are being deceived by demons and believe the information they are receiving is factual about a person, and don’t refer back to John 8:44 that Satan is a liar and the father of lies. So how in the world can any deliverance ministry leader believe and trust anything a demon says?

9. Ministries seem to lose the plot, because our Yeshua HaMashiach said in one command: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation, and the sign that will follow believers/disciples: “casting out devils, speaking in tongues, taking up serpents, drinking poison, and laying hands on the sick to heal them” (Mark 16:17-18).

Sadly, deliverance ministries hinge their ministry in excess upon those words, as they become deceived by their own teaching, and become faith healers, poison drinkers, snake handlers, and counterfeits of the real Pentecostalism. The deliverance ministry of casting out of demons is just another form of fanaticism and showmanship that can only bring those churches into disrepute that sanctions these procedures.


I have seen many deliverance ministries and healing houses work in the frame work of occulticism, spiritism, fanaticism, and animism with many delusions and qualify as one of Satan's direct assaults against HIS Church. When you see a leader who is about to pray for a cripple person, push their wheel chair off the stage, or throw their crutches away and tell them to be healed. Hey, didn’t he see the bullet lodged in his spine. I had one such person pray for me for a back and leg injury, and then ordered me to run around the hall and up stairs, I just looked at him and said: “Get behind me Satan!” He crumpled in a heap in front of me, that is, spiritual heap.

10. The church doesn’t understand that we are fighting against “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, and spiritual hosts, and if we continue to cast out demons and not heal the broken-hearted, deliver them from evil, set the captives free and heal their sicknesses, we will be CAST OUT. The primary emphasis on our churches is to preach the Gospel, not casting out demons.

11. The deliverance ministry is the healing ministry of the church were a person’s personal problems and sins are dealt with and filling their “empty, swept, and put in order house” (Luke 11:24-26 & Matt. 13:43-45) with the knowledge and understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ that reduces the level of demonic possession, oppression and suppression. These deliverance ministries make no allowance for physical, emotional or spiritual problems. How can anyone cast out a spirit of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or Alzheimer’s when their symptoms are caused by bona fide physical factors of the “earthly things”? Another example of this is considering allergies to be specific demons, rather than bona fide physical problems of the body. We learn much from our own suffering and as Paul did from his thorn in his side.

Q1: Why do most churches believe in promoting their church by producing a deliverance ministry, before training disciples?

Q2: Who do you think these possessing, oppressing or suppressing spirits are, and how they became into being?

Q3: If you want to minister in deliverance, which is exorcism, then why wouldn’t you prefer to teach His Children the true Gospel and then you wouldn’t need a deliverance ministry?

Q4: Did our Lord do His ministry behind closed doors?

Q5: When a person manifests in a church service, and they are whisked away, then why do they whisk them away?

Q6: How do you know that those people who are whisked away are counselled by people who are true believers of our Yeshua? And what do you think if some of those manifestations were medical problems caused by physical problems? Does every pastor know the health problems of the members of their congregation? You can’t cast out a physical illness.

Q7: Who ordained your Apostle of your church when you were doing your ministry training?

Q8: Can you explain what the spirits were that were messing with you when you were conversing with a Ghanaian friend on FB?

Q9: Why do you think a blind eye is being used on those things that we should be aware of? Do you think the evil one has infiltrated the churches?

Q10: How do you discern a Spirit-filled church?

Q11. Do you believe in ghosts, magicians, illusionists, UFOs and Aliens?

 

[Andrea411]

Imagine for a moment what goes on in cults, and in other religions where people are taught to listen to other spirits instead of God. What do you think happens? Do Mormon prophets learn how to listen to the angel Moroni? Or how to fake prophecies using tricks they've been taught by those who trained them?


This could be the same problem we are facing in Charismatic churches today. That for so long, people have been faking the gifts of the Spirit that we are no better than a cult. And because our leaders have taught us to trust in them rather than the leading of the Spirit, we really don't have the tools it takes to discern spirits so that we can even do a proper deliverance if we want to!


Learning how to accurately hear God is not that hard. It might take years of practice, which can really be helped by listening to those who have already spent the time and learned from their mistakes. The Gifts of the Spirit are helpful in this as well, teaching us to recognize when God is using one of us to do something godly. It's all simple, basic stuff if you ask me!

So why are so many churches so far behind on learning this? I think the problem is usually because the pastor wants all the glory. The gifts are used by the Body of Christ, which means a pastor's job is to commission the saints for ministry; not hog the spotlight all to himself.

Another issue is doctrine. We can't really afford to allow the prophets to speak, the teachers to teach, or the apostles in training to lay foundations that challenge our understanding of the Bible, right? So whenever God does anything out of the ordinary, pastors are tempted to claim that mystical ability of "discernment" and declare them as false. But in reality this "discernment" is simply their own understanding of doctrine (which is supposedly backed up by scripture but usually is not).

And thus, any hope we have of being trained in church to accurately discern spirits, is sacrificed at the altar of Man.

From what I have seen the church today is more about the pastor then Jesus. Even while you might have a good pastor they hold to this form of rows of seats, the pastor on a stage…. he tells everyone what to believe. Where is the give and take, where is the fellowship…. its the weirdest thing, you can go to most churches for years and barely speak to anyone unless you join a ministry. The early church gathered for food and fellowship in homes… they prayed over one another, each encouraged to have a song or a word.
The only time I see 'real church'. Is in spirit-filled prayer gatherings and we have a teaching from someone who is getting his doctorate but doesn't want to pastor a church…. he travels to different churches giving teachings and is powerfully anointed to teach. Some pastors don't want him to come to their church, I think it is bc it takes the focus off of them.
I've stopped attending, I have fellowship and prayer meetings. This works great for me but I think a new Christian needs more attention and structure, but seriously; sometimes I'm afraid to take people to church bc they lose their joy of the Lord in all the theology.
I'm thinking of starting a home church, but need to do much prayer and see if my husband is on board….
God bless, andrea

 

[Willie T]

Hearing some of this makes me feel blessed... but sad, too.

 

[Andrea411]

michael and Matjohluk, wow, that's a lot of words.... I kind of feel lost in them - like we're not having a discussion anymore..... just saying....


Right now I'm reading the autobiography of a fourth generation African witch-doctor whose life was radically changed when he encountered Jesus. His description of his training as a wizard takes up a large chunk of the book; he says that Jesus commissioned him to tell the Church about the realities of the demonic realm, since he had gone very deeply into that. From the time he was a child, demons were a part of his everyday life. He thought they were his servants, but upon meeting Jesus, he realized he had been their slave. The demons had tricked him - an elaborate ruse that took up his entire childhood and part of his adulthood.

I'm not sure about Mormon prophets. I suspect that as the years have gone by, they most likely have been abandoned by Moroni and the other deceptive spirits, and they are just faking it. Not even bothering to fake it. Just living in the swamps of a demonic revelation that once was.


This is exactly what I'm afraid I'm seeing.
....like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.....

"Learning how to accurately hear God is not that hard..... So why are so many churches so far behind on learning this?"
Partly because so many pastors - not having had a real encounter with Jesus but only an affinity for the written Word, or for talking - have come to believe that the Christian faith is just about mentally assenting to the truth, and that we really don't have to learn to hear from God.


Really? I know and work with many pastors, and my dad is one. All of the pastors I know truly believe they are giving God glory, even the bad ones. What they don't know is that that is not their job! Their job is to give the church glory! ha, I just realized that. (wow, that could be a whole 'nother thread)


I think that there is truth in that statement, but it's all so covered up in Christianese and the good intentions of many people that hardly anyone knows it.

Great post… I am a former mormon. I wasn't born into it and its different for converts but they never encourage anyone to listen to God or hear Him speak. Its a 3 hour service divided up into Sunday school, the most boring meeting you'll ever sit through and then the men and women go off to different rooms to learn to be good parents, and dutiful spouses. I was a very new Christian when they knocked on my door, I thought God had sent them. But the attraction about LDS is they answer so many of the questions new Christians have… thats one of the signs of a cult. Where the bible doesn't speak on an issue - they fill in the blanks. Nice people - its all about being nice people. No Spirit…. somewhat like mainline Christian churches actually. I was a Christian when I was there but left when I realized they were going to talk more about J.Smith then Jesus Christ and I was hungry for Jesus….
30 years ago there was no internet and it was very difficult for a new Christian to figure out the truth… except that I knew there was something really really missing and it was the focus on Jesus

 

[tturt]

Some folks are talking a lot. I don't agree with many of the conclusions stated in their posts. Whenever words such as "every" "all" "never" "always" are used, it raises flags.

Though they are certainly entitled to their opinions. Since you're not going to change your mind and I'm not, then for me I agree to disagree and move on.

 

[talitha]

I fully understand what you are saying here, but, Boy, could THAT statement ever be misunderstood. :o

Yup - I do that a lot IRL - make statements that could totally be misunderstood - but for those with ears to hear, they will find wisdom.

Q1: Why do most churches believe in promoting their church by producing a deliverance ministry, before training disciples?

Most churches do not do that, as far as I know.

Q2: Who do you think these possessing, oppressing or suppressing spirits are, and how they became into being?

Fallen angels. They were created by God and fell with Lucifer.

Q3: If you want to minister in deliverance, which is exorcism, then why wouldn’t you prefer to teach His Children the true Gospel and then you wouldn’t need a deliverance ministry?

I don't agree that a deliverance ministry wouldn't be needed. But I think I may be defining "deliverance ministry" different from you. I think I commented about that before, but for the most part you don't seem interested in directly addressing my comments and questions - which seems odd to me.

Q4: Did our Lord do His ministry behind closed doors?

Not usually. There was this one case with a girl who was "sleeping".....

Q5: When a person manifests in a church service, and they are whisked away, then why do they whisk them away?

I think it is supposed to be to protect the person's dignity and to keep people out of the process that should not be in it. I remember one time when there was a self-proclaimed prayer warrior attending a special joint service we had with another church, and someone started manifesting - said prayer warrior was making a display of things and totally mishandling the situation until my pastor and a few others took the manifesting person to a room without invitint said prayer warrior. That time I thought they did the right thing. Usually I think it should be done publically - to rightly teach everyone to fulfill the whole great commission, and to keep from giving too much honor to personal dignity.

Q6: How do you know that those people who are whisked away are counselled by people who are true believers of our Yeshua? And what do you think if some of those manifestations were medical problems caused by physical problems? Does every pastor know the health problems of the members of their congregation? You can’t cast out a physical illness.

Good point.

Q7: Who ordained your Apostle of your church when you were doing your ministry training?

He was actually ordained as an Apostle later, after my husband and I came to Honduras; we weren't there. Apostleship was prophesied over him several times, but he kept refusing to accept the label until a Mexican minister visited the church and prophesied the same thing - having known very little about him before - and if I remember the story correctly, he ordained my pastor as an apostle on the spot, with all of the elders of the church standing in agreement. He has since been recognized by our regional ministers' fellowship and given oversight of around thirty churches and ministries, and he is accountable to the president of that fellowship.

Q8: Can you explain what the spirits were that were messing with you when you were conversing with a Ghanaian friend on FB?

I would rather not, in this context, because I think many people (possibly including yourself) would not get it.

Q9: Why do you think a blind eye is being used on those things that we should be aware of? Do you think the evil one has infiltrated the churches?

Hmmm I think there has been some infiltration, but I also think there is a lot of overintellectualisation in the Western church. There is presently a lack of teaching and a lack of knowledge about spiritual things - partly because of fear...

Q10: How do you discern a Spirit-filled church?

Mostly, I sense the presence of God in the worship, and I see some manifestations of the Spirit in action.

Q11. Do you believe in ghosts, magicians, illusionists, UFOs and Aliens?

The short answer is that I believe that they are very real and very demonic - except for some illusionists - I think some illusionists are just playing tricks, and it's not spiritual. But some... one has to be discerning....

Here's another thread I started in NonChristian Religions forum, in case you'r interested in reading....
http://www.christianforums.com/t7796117/

OOooeyyy I need to go to bed; it's almost 2AM!

 

[Matjohluk]

Hi Andrea,

I understand exactly what you are saying, as over the last 25 years I’ve been in three churches and all were imaging building pastors to appear to all asunder that they are a nice guy, squeaky clean, and a silver-lined tongue. Then they get caught out, their worldly life of sin manifests before your very eyes. Their “Good Ship Lollipop” begins to flounder as their fairy-floss doctrine loses its sweetness.

The last church was no different to the other three churches when pride begins to take over and much self-exaltation, and wanted to be like Benny Hinn or other TV showmen.

You really know a church by their fruit at fellowship time in the tea room after the morning service, as the sheep mill into the tea room and gather in pockets of shades and flavours: some wayside, some rocky, and some thorny. You stand there in amazement as you see the pseudo believers manifest their egos of the world and lost all the vigour and spirit as soon as they departed from the church. The church is nothing but a big clique.

I was hospitalised for over three months, and in the first week I saw one member of the church and nobody else after that, and when I returned to the church they all milled around in their own importance, and all I could say: “Yeshua, forgive them, they know not what they do!”.

I see much ostracisation, and rejection of new members who ask the wrong questions, and when you try to help them, you are chastised by the leaders. Yes, when we are known by our fruit.

Blessings

 

[Matjohluk]

Some folks are talking a lot. I don't agree with many of the conclusions stated in their posts. Though they are certainly entitled to their opinions.

Whenever words such as "every" "all" "never" "always" are used. It raises flags.

Possibly because you are a Yank and I am an Aussie, and we use our words in a different way! It was ONLY used three time to emphasise three main points. If you don't agree with any conclusions then make a point for your reason or are you a nit-picker, or are you throwing fiery darts!

I gave my thoughts to see what could transpire out of them.

Anyway, you have a good day.

Blessings

 

[Matjohluk]

Hi Talitha,

Thanks for your replies, and I am not trying to big note myself, or trying to pressure you, but I am trying to establish a platform for discussion and to set the principles of the healing of the sick in a different angle as per God’s Word in healing, delivering the captives from evil and setting them free through the truth of God’s Word.

I believe that many ministries have the wrong perception and theory of casting out demons, and I’ve seen more damage done to people than good, and many sufferers being destroyed and spiritually abused. I could describe many incidents of deliverance ministry trying to cast out demons from a person who was suffering from multiple personality disorders, and demons weren’t involved. Those people were destroyed by these ministries.

I have always believed that discipleship is the primary role of churches in training His Sheep as His disciples. I’ve discovered over many years that most new believers after salvation still struggle with numerous altering habits and attitudes from their past life that had produced their beliefs that caused their emotional and physical problems, which were not developed while under the influence of demons, as most deliverance ministry members believe.

A good “Freedom in Christ” counsellor will produce the healing that a broken-heart need, by leading them into prayer, and to talk about these things that still hurt, and feel like a fish-hook still embedded in their heart. I discovered that many carry anger, bitterness and resentfulness toward other people and carry much fear of them since the day of the abuse, hurt, and offence. By sound and simple counselling, talking one-on-one about their feelings and suffering at the time of their abuse, hurt and offence does bring them to a better understanding of a believers life and being saved.

This is when God’s Word is used by the counsellor, such as “confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much” (James 5:16), “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9), “forgive us our sins, as we forgive sins of others” (Matt. 6:12), “And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you” (Eph. 4:32), “I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5). Three simple commands by simple prayers of confession, repentance and forgiveness can tear the walls of any stronghold down.

The God’s Word says: “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (James 5:14-15), which is again a simple procedure for healing, being delivered from evil, being set free from captivity; and has nothing to do with the deliverance ministry and the casting out of demons.

Through confession of sins and forgiving other people who had caused the hurt, offence, and/or abuse are the greatest “deliverance” of all, and no demons needed to be cast out. I found that more people were set free by simple prayer and admission of their anger, bitterness, and resentfulness toward another person; and then led in prayer of confession, repentance and forgiveness there was an immediate release of their guilt and the power that was held over them by those past incidents. Again, no deliverance ministry involved in casting out of demons.
From this we can see that healing from our hurts and pain that was caused emotionally and physically was not caused by the demonic activity.
Then the new believer can walk out under proper pastoral care and authority, the freedom that they have received by simple prayer of confession, repentance, and forgiveness.

His Great Commission: “He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover” (Mark 16:15-18). But sadly, deliverance ministries seem to only see in these verses the “casting out demonic spirits” and bypass all other important parts of the verses.

This is all I am trying to do to bring into the discussion with you, to see that healing comes from confession, repentance, and forgiveness; then love will flow; not from unnecessary deliverance and the casting out of demons.

Blessings in love.

 

[talitha]

Matjohluk, you asked questions, I responded to them, and you then have nothing to say about those questions in return. I don't understand that. I am at a loss as to how your posts are contributing to the discussion I opened. I'm trying really hard to engage with you here, but I feel you are not engaging with me in return......

 

[talitha]

Great post… I am a former mormon. I wasn't born into it and its different for converts but they never encourage anyone to listen to God or hear Him speak. Its a 3 hour service divided up into Sunday school, the most boring meeting you'll ever sit through and then the men and women go off to different rooms to learn to be good parents, and dutiful spouses.

I actually went a few times to a Mormon church when I was in college. They joked about throwing me into the baptismal, but I never joined up - although I actually sang a special song in church with two Mormon friends - haha! I heard about some pretty odd beliefs!! and you're right, the services are not very exciting, and they don't talk about hearing from God, other than the impression you're supposed to feel from the Lord at the beginning that these things are true. If anyone really ever feels anything in their spirits, I shudder to think what they might be feeling.

I was a very new Christian when they knocked on my door, I thought God had sent them. But the attraction about LDS is they answer so many of the questions new Christians have… thats one of the signs of a cult. Where the bible doesn't speak on an issue - they fill in the blanks. Nice people - its all about being nice people.

Yep, and to this day, some of the nicest, most outwardly Christ-like people I know are Mormons. It can mess with a person's theology!

No Spirit…. somewhat like mainline Christian churches actually. I was a Christian when I was there but left when I realized they were going to talk more about J.Smith then Jesus Christ and I was hungry for Jesus….
30 years ago there was no internet and it was very difficult for a new Christian to figure out the truth… except that I knew there was something really really missing and it was the focus on Jesus

Yeah, which is why I lost interest. There were so many young singles in that group, and I always wondered what kept them there.

 

[Matjohluk]

Matjohluk, you asked questions, I responded to them, and you then have nothing to say about those questions in return. I don't understand that. I am at a loss as to how your posts are contributing to the discussion I opened. I'm trying really hard to engage with you here, but I feel you are not engaging with me in return......

Hi Talitha,

I am sorry to see that all of my long-winded responses were not seen as part of a discussion. I believed that I made comments hoping that we would discuss my comments. My last comment was once again a general comment on comments of the questions I asked you, but I was commenting generally on:

Q1: Why do most churches believe in promoting their church by producing a deliverance ministry, before training disciples?

And you said: “Most churches do not do that, as far as I know.”

I explained in my opening sentence that I was going to respond to your other answers, and I was implying that I was commenting on your “answer” to “Question 1”. And I then said again that I was trying to set a foundation, and I noticed that you didn’t comment on anything I had said in all of my previous comments. After all I did go to some effort in my response, quoting Scriptures, and explaining things, but you made no comment to any of my comments. You ignored them completely, or you agreed with everything I had said.

I had commented that the principles of the healing of the sick need to be seen from a different angle and frame of mind as per God’s Word and our Great Commission in a person’s healing, delivering them from evil and setting them free through the truth of God’s Word, and not by casting out of demons, which is the last resort, that is, exorcism.

Did you read all the other long-winded comments I made in regards to confession, repentance, and forgiveness, and that these actions by our Lord’s Disciples in bringing a person who is in need of healing to a full understanding of HIS Great Commission, which is confession, repentance and forgiveness. Healing has nothing to do with being taken into the bowels of a deliverance room for extreme length of time as some deliverance ministries do. Screaming at a demon doesn’t to heal a broken-heart, deliver them from evil, and to set them free. The truth of His Word does all of this, only if you abide by them. This is what I have been trying to explain to you and hoping that you would ask a question or repute what I said.

I see many churches advertising and publicising their ministry on Internet that their main ministry is “Deliverance”, and then some of them say in the next breath that they charge you for their service. Hey, “freely receive, freely give”.


I said to you that I believe that many ministries have the wrong perception and theory of casting out demons, because I’ve seen more damage done to people than good, and many people who had enough emotional and physical sufferering being spiritually abused and accused of having no faith. I then went on and said that I there were a number of incidents of a deliverance ministry trying to cast out demons from a person who was suffering from multiple personality disorders, and demons weren’t involved. Those people were destroyed by these ministries. You didn’t comment on my remarks, which was open to discussion, and you completely ignored that very important comment.


I then went on to say that I have always believed that discipleship is the primary role of churches in training His Sheep as His disciples, not forming a deliverance ministry. I’ve discovered over many years that most new believers after salvation still struggle with numerous altering habits and attitudes from their past life that produced their beliefs (strongholds) that caused their emotional and physical problems, and I went onto to say that these problems were not developed while under the influence of demons, as most deliverance ministry members believe. You didn’t remark on my comments either. Do you disagree or agree with my statements I have made so far? I am open to discussion on these very important points on healing.

I then went on to say that a good “Freedom in Christ” counsellor will produce the healing that a broken-hearted person needs, by leading them into prayer, and of course making them aware of the Great Commission of our Yeshua. I said that when we talk about their strongholds of hurt, offences, anger, bitterness and/or resentfulness these people can be set free; and we don’t need to be standing over them screaming and telling these demons to get out of their “house”.

These poor souls are hurting, and all the pain in their body is like fish-hooks embedded deep-down in their hearts, and they need understanding what they are going through, and casting out of demons isn’t going to heal their heart-felt wounds.

I then went onto say that simple counselling, talking one-on-one about their feelings and suffering at the time of their abuse, hurt and offence brings them to a better understanding of a believers life and being saved, and our Yeshua HaMashiach ministry through His disciples---US!

I then went onto quoting a number of Scriptures and I now see that these Scriptures may mean nothing to you, because you didn’t comment or agree with me that by bringing these hurting people, who you are trying to deliver by casting out of demons, when simple confession of sins, simple repentance, simple forgiveness of their unforgiveness for those people who abused, hurt or offended them.

You see Talitha, TRUTH is what sets a person FREE not casting out of demons, because if the “house is empty, swept, and put in order” then that person’s broken-heart will not be healed, the evil one will return and bring back more demons back into their “house” (soul) and rebuild their strongholds.

Casting out of demons, do not bring that person closer to our Lord, or make them submit to our Messiah, or resist Satan and his forces, or cleanse their hands, or purify their heart, or make them humble (see James 4).

“Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much” (James 5:16)

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)

“Forgive us our sins, as we forgive sins of others” (Matt. 6:12)

“And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you” (Eph. 4:32)

“I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5).

These simple verses above are the clutch pin to any Healing Ministry of our Freedom in Christ, not casting out of demons. Three simple commands by simple prayers of confession, repentance and forgiveness can tear the walls of any stronghold down.


He then goes onto say: “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (James 5:14-15).

Again I explained that a simple procedure for healing, being delivered from evil, being set free from captivity; and has nothing to do with the deliverance ministry and the casting out of demons, which you didn’t comment on.

I then went on to say that people are set free by simple prayer and admission of their sins of anger, bitterness, and resentfulness toward another person; and then led in prayer of confession these sins, repenting for their feelings toward those other people and forgiving those people there was an immediate release as the shadow of their guilt and the power it had over them lifted off them that had held them in chains in their strongholds. I then said that no deliverance ministry was involved in casting out of demons, because after confession, repentance and forgiveness those demons had no authority to remain in that person’s “house” (Read Luke 11:24-26 again!)

So, please Talitha, go back and read all of my long-winded comments again, and you might learn something new about the real truth of setting a person free, as the ministry of His Disciples are not founded on casting out of demons, but it seems as though churches makes this a priority over HIS GREAT COMMISSION!
You then said to me: “Matjohluk, you asked questions, I responded to them, and you then have nothing to say about those questions in return. I don't understand that. I am at a loss as to how your posts are contributing to the discussion I opened. I'm trying really hard to engage with you here, but I feel you are not engaging with me in return!”

I responded to Question 1, and did you see what I was trying to explain to you was about the real healing of a person’s hurts and offences, was about confession, was about repentance, about was forgiveness. The sad state of affairs Talitha is that most churches don’t preach this Gospel. These are the Great Commission of His Disciples, not casting out of demons.

And you said: “Most churches don’t do this, as far as you know”, which is correct, because you don’t know and nor does all the other poor unfortunate congregators who frequent churches suffering because the basics of HIS Commission isn’t taught and those churches do not preach on confession, repentance, forgiveness and the most of all “love”!

Blessings

 

[soccercop]

Matjohluk,

What are your detailed views on multiple personality disorders? How would you know if there are demons involved or not? Also how are the people with MPD healed?

 

[talitha]

Well, in this post I find that you are making more of an effort to engage me in a conversation, so I will bite. My comments are in blue.

I explained in my opening sentence that I was going to respond to your other answers, and I was implying that I was commenting on your “answer” to “Question 1”. Actually, you didn't explain that in your opening sentence. I just went back to check - and sure enough, it's not there. In fact, the word "question" appears no where in that post - do you see my confusion?

And I then said again that I was trying to set a foundation, and I noticed that you didn’t comment on anything I had said in all of my previous comments. After all I did go to some effort in my response, quoting Scriptures, and explaining things, but you made no comment to any of my comments. You ignored them completely, or you agreed with everything I had said. Because you seem to be saying the same thing over and over with a lot of different words, and it just all sort of runs together. It doesn't "lay a foundation" for discussion; my OP did that.

I had commented that the principles of the healing of the sick need to be seen from a different angle and frame of mind as per God’s Word and our Great Commission in a person’s healing, delivering them from evil and setting them free through the truth of God’s Word, and not by casting out of demons, which is the last resort, that is, exorcism.
Okay - while I agree that the casting out of demons is not the main goal of the Church, this discussion is about the casting out of demons and things directly related to that. I was hoping that my ignoring comments that were unrelated to the topic of the discussion I started would sooner or later discourage these unrelated topics, and we could go on talking about casting out demons.

Did you read all the other long-winded comments I made in regards to confession, repentance, and forgiveness, and that these actions by our Lord’s Disciples in bringing a person who is in need of healing to a full understanding of HIS Great Commission, which is confession, repentance and forgiveness.
I did read them, and I was looking for something in there that was germane to my discussion that I could respond to, but I didn't really find it.

Healing has nothing to do with being taken into the bowels of a deliverance room for extreme length of time as some deliverance ministries do. Screaming at a demon doesn’t to heal a broken-heart, deliver them from evil, and to set them free.
If you read my earlier posts on this thread, you will see that I do not agree with always taking people to a separate room when they manifest in a worship service (though I suppose that if the demon is just trying to disrupt the service,as with the little boy you spoke of, it probably should be dealt with in private, as you did - but I didn't want to just say AHA! so you DO agree with dealing with these things in private - so I let it go).

The truth of His Word does all of this, only if you abide by them. This is what I have been trying to explain to you and hoping that you would ask a question or repute what I said.
Okay - that part I thought was sort of self-explanatory, and honestly, I went into this discussion assuming that we all were serious Christians in here - so I didn't have a question or an argument to say. Of course when we are seriously pursuing Christ, we are demon-proofing ourselves - but what of the demons we occur outside the church services and buildings?

I see many churches advertising and publicising their ministry on Internet that their main ministry is “Deliverance”, and then some of them say in the next breath that they charge you for their service. Hey, “freely receive, freely give”.
Agreed. But I wasn't hoping to discuss problems with greed in ministers. That's a rabbit trail.... moving on.....

I said to you that I believe that many ministries have the wrong perception and theory of casting out demons, because I’ve seen more damage done to people than good, and many people who had enough emotional and physical sufferering being spiritually abused and accused of having no faith.
Okay, but that's not what I want to talk about. So I didn't say anything.

I then went on and said that I there were a number of incidents of a deliverance ministry trying to cast out demons from a person who was suffering from multiple personality disorders, and demons weren’t involved. Those people were destroyed by these ministries. You didn’t comment on my remarks, which was open to discussion, and you completely ignored that very important comment.
You saw it as important - I didn't really see it as that important to what I wanted to discuss. I comment on what I want to comment on, thus hopefully sort of influencing the discussion to go in the direction which will be most helpful for what I'm trying to talk about. For the record, while I agree with you, I have also seen demons coddled as "alters" - but this is not a DID/MPD conversation.

I then went on to say that I have always believed that discipleship is the primary role of churches in training His Sheep as His disciples, not forming a deliverance ministry.
I agree with that - I had no question or argument, and it seemed pretty basic, so I had nothing to say. You keep saying more and more things and it seems you are wanting to be the Discussion DIrector here, but I see the OP as what should set the tone. I want a discussion, not a series of monologues. For that, we could have a blog war - except I don't blog - because I prefer discussions, in which people take turns talking.

I’ve discovered over many years that most new believers after salvation still struggle with numerous altering habits and attitudes from their past life that produced their beliefs (strongholds) that caused their emotional and physical problems, and I went onto to say that these problems were not developed while under the influence of demons, as most deliverance ministry members believe.
While I agree with you that these problems are typically not developed while under the influence of demons, what happens is that the strongholds become places where demons may have a foothold of authority in even a believer's life and even take up residence.

You didn’t remark on my comments either. Do you disagree or agree with my statements I have made so far? I am open to discussion on these very important points on healing.
That's mighty charitable of you.

I then went on to say that a good “Freedom in Christ” counsellor will produce the healing that a broken-hearted person needs, by leading them into prayer, and of course making them aware of the Great Commission of our Yeshua. I said that when we talk about their strongholds of hurt, offences, anger, bitterness and/or resentfulness these people can be set free; and we don’t need to be standing over them screaming and telling these demons to get out of their “house”.
I don't think I have presented myself as a screamer. I am not. These things can be done in a normal tone of voice. But there comes a time when a demon must be addressed and not talked around.

These poor souls are hurting, and all the pain in their body is like fish-hooks embedded deep-down in their hearts, and they need understanding what they are going through, and casting out of demons isn’t going to heal their heart-felt wounds. I then went onto say that simple counselling, talking one-on-one about their feelings and suffering at the time of their abuse, hurt and offence brings them to a better understanding of a believers life and being saved, and our Yeshua HaMashiach ministry through His disciples---US!
True, but this discussion is not about counseling; it's about casting out demons.

I then went onto quoting a number of Scriptures and I now see that these Scriptures may mean nothing to you, because you didn’t comment or agree with me that by bringing these hurting people, who you are trying to deliver by casting out of demons, when simple confession of sins, simple repentance, simple forgiveness of their unforgiveness for those people who abused, hurt or offended them.
So the fact that I had no question or argument about something that you brought up means that the Scriptures mean nothing to me? Wow.

You see Talitha, TRUTH is what sets a person FREE not casting out of demons, because if the “house is empty, swept, and put in order” then that person’s broken-heart will not be healed, the evil one will return and bring back more demons back into their “house” (soul) and rebuild their strongholds.
True, but that doesn't mean that a house empty of demons is a bad thing. It just means that there is after-care needed.

Casting out of demons, do not bring that person closer to our Lord, or make them submit to our Messiah, or resist Satan and his forces, or cleanse their hands, or purify their heart, or make them humble (see James 4).
I know, but this discussion is about casting out demons. It is not titled "getting closer to our Lord", "submitting to the Messiah", etc., all of which are worthy topics that I am open to discussing, but not really in this thread. I was hoping to have a rather specific discussion and not a general one.

• “Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much” (James 5:16)
• “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)
• “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive sins of others” (Matt. 6:12)
• “And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you” (Eph. 4:32)
• “I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5).

Lest there be any question, allow me to say that these are all great scriptures, and they mean a lot to me and all of us. But they don't really apply directly to this discussion.

These simple verses above are the clutch pin to any Healing Ministry of our Freedom in Christ, not casting out of demons. Three simple commands by simple prayers of confession, repentance and forgiveness can tear the walls of any stronghold down.
I agree completely with that - but this discussion is about casting out demons.

He then goes onto say: “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven” (James 5:14-15).
Amen! Great! We had a testimony at church of someone who was prayed for by the elders, and a bone tumor disappeared! Yay! But that is not directly germane to this discussion.

Again I explained that a simple procedure for healing, being delivered from evil, being set free from captivity; and has nothing to do with the deliverance ministry and the casting out of demons, which you didn’t comment on.
because this discussion is about casting out demons.

I then went on to say that people are set free by simple prayer and admission of their sins of anger, bitterness, and resentfulness toward another person; and then led in prayer of confession these sins, repenting for their feelings toward those other people and forgiving those people there was an immediate release as the shadow of their guilt and the power it had over them lifted off them that had held them in chains in their strongholds.
But sometimes demons need to be cast out.

I then said that no deliverance ministry was involved in casting out of demons, because after confession, repentance and forgiveness those demons had no authority to remain in that person’s “house” (Read Luke 11:24-26 again!)
It seems that you are saying that Christians cannot be demonized. IF that were true, then Christians would never manifest demons or be influenced by them, and nothing would happen when demons are cast out of them - but actually all of those things happen in real life!

So, please Talitha, go back and read all of my long-winded comments again, and you might learn something new about the real truth of setting a person free, as the ministry of His Disciples are not founded on casting out of demons, but it seems as though churches makes this a priority over HIS GREAT COMMISSION!
I am not saying deliverance ministry is the most important task of the church - it's simply the topic of the discussion I started here.

I responded to Question 1, and did you see what I was trying to explain to you was about the real healing of a person’s hurts and offences, was about confession, was about repentance, about was forgiveness. The sad state of affairs Talitha is that most churches don’t preach this Gospel.
Then you have very narrow experience of churches.

These are the Great Commission of His Disciples, not casting out of demons.
You are right about that, and that is basic knowledge, something I ordinarily would not necessarily comment on.

And you said: “Most churches don’t do this, as far as you know”, which is correct, because you don’t know and nor does all the other poor unfortunate congregators who frequent churches suffering because the basics of HIS Commission isn’t taught and those churches do not preach on confession, repentance, forgiveness and the most of all “love”!
Again, it really seems to me from this that you have a narrow experience of churches, but one thing that is lacking in every church I've been part of - United Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist, Assembly of God, Mennonite, and non-denominational, with a little Lutheran and Catholic thrown in - is adequate preparation for engaging in any kind of spiritual warfare and deliverance.

 

[Alive_Again]

Derek Prince teaches well on giving heed to what we do and how spirits are legalistic and afflict when we've given them a right to.

Win Worley (on Youtube) speaks a lot from experience in ministry. Don Dickerman describes bringing the enemy to a "courtroom" where the Holy Spirit and the minister change legal rights to you based on repentance and the name of Jesus (under the anointing).

Kenneth Hagin learned some valuable insights covered in "I Believe in Visions".

Norvel Hayes talks about "Discenrment of Spirits" as a gift and how it is available to you in your walk of victory.

I don't believe any restoration ministry is complete without info on breaking soul ties. All this can be found on youtube.

Occasionally I'll hear someone mix something in that I believe is a little extreme, but just go with what you bear witness to.

There was an excellent prophetic word that came forth where the Holy Spirit advised not to lay hands on anyone until you are confident you heard from the Holy Spirit. There is a "transference" that can happen when you make physical contact with people. You can actually pick up things from their spirit, and you think supernaturally that it is a word of knowledge. Since if you share it, it "lines up", it seems to be correct, but in this realm you might be received. He said to wait until the sense of moving forward and at the point of contact, you transfer the anointing.

The whole physical realm, who we are, how we're made, and the spirit realm is very supernatural. It's not New Age, but it's still moving in the realm the enemy uses the New Agers in. That's why there is often a "resemblance" or counterfeit the enemy uses to things God made and moves in.