What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[GenemZ]

But we're not under their covenant issued at Sinai.

Maybe we should take a collection so he can buy a new battery for his time machine. Obviously, he got stuck in the wrong dispensation and can't get back.

 

[GenemZ]

Is the Sabbath the only thing of the Ten Commandments that we can ignore?
Why was the Sabbath given?
Was not the Sabbath of God and given by God?

Are all the males in your church commanded to be circumcised?

 

[Sophrosyne]

But we're not under their covenant issued at Sinai.

I often wonder if someone from their group sneaks into their houses and rips that part of the Bible out and sneaks out as often as it is ignored entirely like it was put on a boat on a river in Egypt...

 

[Elder 111]

Anyone who has read the narrative presented in the first few chapters of the epistle to the Romans knows that it starts out showing the problem, where everyone is rendered "guilty before God". It isn't until v3:21 that Paul outlines the solution to the problem he presents. We've already seen that the Gentiles don't have the Law, aren't circumsized, and don't keep the sabbath each year as the children of Israel were required to. You haven't sat down and read the narrative the way the inspired author penned it, and this is the reason you are so ignorant of this epistle's message.

1. It is implied in your reply that the solution involves the rendering of the Ten Commandments void.
2. The law of Circumcision was not given with or in the Ten Commandments and can not be associated with it as of the same.
3. The yearly sabbath and the weekly Sabbath are not the same in purpose nor in character and only one of them is in the Ten Commandments.
4. Am I really ignorant of what is said in the epistle? let's see.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (Does the whole world mean the Jews only?)

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (does the fact that we are not justified by the deeds of the law mean that the law is voided? Why would God remove the means of knowing sin?)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (why get rid of the witness? That sounds like something the guilty would do not the innocent!)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Does this mean that the deeds are not required or should not be carried out?)

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. (Does by faith means with the ten Commandments and through faith means without the Ten commandments?

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Establish mean remove, no jurisdiction, voided, or nullified?

 

[GenemZ]

But we're not under their covenant issued at Sinai.

They get.. "Sinai headaches."

They get very stuffy when you challenge them with that one.

 

[Elder 111]

You must be talking about some other text than what I quoted.

No Paul isn't saying the Gentiles keep the law.

You sever the law into little groups having no connection. The law is a single unit and each part effects another.

How then do you explain the fragmentation in deliverance and treatment?
500 years before Sinai God gave circumcision, then passover, day of atonement etc. Did He keep forgetting parts of this one unit? Clean and unclean means He gave and He says oh I forgot there another part. Give me some stone there let me put them on it maybe if I write it I will remember everything this time. But he still forgot parts and then told them to remember the law of the priesthood and sacrifices. One unit but God could not remember all at once. Most of all he forgot that he did not really need them any way cause he was going to die on the cross.

 

[Elder 111]

[/i]
[/list]
The Ten Commandments only mention not to commit adultery. Its in the rest of the Law that says you will be executed if you do!

It also says in the Law that if you see someone who does not keep the Sabbath that you should have him executed. Do you keep the Law?

Exodus 31:13-14
​

“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
​

How many Sabbath breakers have you executed lately? Starting a cult of murder if you wish to uphold the law concerning the Sabbath?

No need for execution now, God will take care of that later, forever.

 

[VictorC]

1. It is implied in your reply that the solution involves the rendering of the Ten Commandments void.
2. The law of Circumcision was not given with or in the Ten Commandments and can not be associated with it as of the same.
3. The yearly sabbath and the weekly Sabbath are not the same in purpose nor in character and only one of them is in the Ten Commandments.
4. Am I really ignorant of what is said in the epistle? let's see.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (Does the whole world mean the Jews only?)

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (does the fact that we are not justified by the deeds of the law mean that the law is voided? Why would God remove the means of knowing sin?)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (why get rid of the witness? That sounds like something the guilty would do not the innocent!)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Does this mean that the deeds are not required or should not be carried out?)

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. (Does by faith means with the ten Commandments and through faith means without the Ten commandments?

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Establish mean remove, no jurisdiction, voided, or nullified?

Elder111,
It is you who has determined to make void the Law by contradicting it at every turn. Romans 3:31 is against your testimony, as you aren't among those who accepts the Law. Besides, this verse in its context quotes from the Law 430 years before the Ten Commandments existed, and your appeal to it shows your ignorance of the narrative this verse appears in.
Why do you intend to speak against the Law?

 

[VictorC]

Is the Sabbath the only thing of the Ten Commandments that we can ignore?
Why was the Sabbath given?
Was not the Sabbath of God and given by God?
Abraham's seeds, the Jews, were not sons of God too?
In the light of Gal. 4:4-7, is it that you are saving the we are redeem from the Ten Commandments?
Which would imply that we are not only not obligated to keep the sabbath but that we are not obligated to keep any of the other nine: including not serving God only. That or you have misrepresented/understood scripture.
It is that simple.

Elder111,
You have already testified your intent to violate the sabbath commandment found in the old covenant. And after seeing Scripture's testimony summarizing the Gospel's message of God's redemption and adoption as His own children.....

.....your sole response is to question Scripture.

This indicates your disdain for the Bible. If you don't accept the Word of Hashem as authoritative, you don't have a common ground for discussion on a Christian forum.

 

[GenemZ]

How then do you explain the fragmentation in deliverance and treatment?
500 years before Sinai God gave circumcision, then passover, day of atonement etc. Did He keep forgetting parts of this one unit? Clean and unclean means He gave and He says oh I forgot there another part. Give me some stone there let me put them on it maybe if I write it I will remember everything this time. But he still forgot parts and then told them to remember the law of the priesthood and sacrifices. One unit but God could not remember all at once. Most of all he forgot that he did not really need them any way cause he was going to die on the cross.

Why do anyone play stupid, and at the same time act clever?

All you speak of was written in the Law. There were different phases to its unveiling, but all examples you gave are to be found in the book of the Law.

Hebrews 10:1

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—
not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the
same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect
those who draw near to worship.


​

Come on! I would sympathize with your position if you were a new born baby believer wanting to please God, who is just reading the Bible for the first time and does not know what to think. But? If you have been reading the Bible for some time!

Apparently you have to be willfully refusing to grow up in understanding. You might see it as not following the herd, but you are just in a smaller flock, that's all.

It appears you want to keep reliving that feel-good feeling of infancy. So, you refuse to be corrected as to grow up in Christ.


What you are doing is nothing new. You're just another victim of a certain kind of pride that certain believers have an affinity for when they walk in their flesh.

Galatians 5:4

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated
from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


.
​

 

[maco]

IMO I believe people who have been born of God and who are sincerely seeking God's will may still not have a clear understanding of all things. I believe the Sabbath is least of the commandments which means they may still be in the kingdom but they will be in a lesser position in the kingdom.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

These people have not rejected Jesus, they just don't understand all that they need to know. The more they understand the more they are accountable to.

Luke 19:11-27 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’ “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’ “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’ “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”

 

[VictorC]

[/I]
[/LIST]
The Ten Commandments only mention not to commit adultery. Its in the rest of the Law that says you will be executed if you do!

It also says in the Law that if you see someone who does not keep the Sabbath that you should have him executed. Do you keep the Law?

Exodus 31:13-14
​

“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
​

How many Sabbath breakers have you executed lately?

Your conclusion is in error.
Elder111 has committed theological suicide by his continual transgression of the old covenant he has claimed still retains him.

 

[VictorC]

IMO I believe people who have been born of God and who are sincerely seeking God's will may still not have a clear understanding of all things. I believe the Sabbath is least of the commandments which means they may still be in the kingdom but they will be in a lesser position in the kingdom.

We don't care what your opinion or beliefs are. We are only interested in what Scripture says. Go find that commandment God's adopted children are allegedly bound by. The exercise will demonstrate to your own satisfaction that there is no commandment for the sabbath.

 

[GenemZ]

IMO I believe people who have been born of God and who are sincerely seeking God's will may still not have a clear understanding of all things. I believe the Sabbath is least of the commandments which means they may still be in the kingdom but they will be in a lesser position in the kingdom.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was a rabbi who was teaching Jews, as a rabbi should. According to the Law. Things changed. The Cross interrupted the age of the Jews and put it on hold, and the Church began a new age with different requirements of a much higher order. The Law is not applicable for the Church age like it was intended for the Jews. Some can not get that clear because they still have yet to discover what it means to grow in Grace and Knowledge of the Lord.

 

[GenemZ]

Your conclusion is in error.
Elder111 has committed theological suicide by his continual transgression of the old covenant he has claimed still retains him.

I must have missed it. In what way does he transgress?

 

[VictorC]

I must have missed it. In what way does he transgress?

Hehehe...
He already threw away the mandate for circumcision to observe the annual High Sabbath, meaning he has no intention to comply with God's commandment "Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep" (note the plural) we found in Exodus 31.

He needs to kill himself to comply with v.14: "Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death".

From the theological perspective, Elder111 has claimed retention by the covenant from Mount Sinai in all of his posts. From Galatians 4:30 we see that this retention removes any claim to eternal life with the Heir: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” Remember that v.24 defines the bondwoman as that covenant from Mount Sinai.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Your conclusion is in error.
Elder111 has committed theological suicide by his continual transgression of the old covenant he has claimed still retains him.

Everyone knows that Law promoters shout how Holy and Good the Law is but only seem to pick and choose part of it to keep making some of the Law not so Holy and Good as others.

 

[GenemZ]

Hehehe...
He already threw away the mandate for circumcision to observe the annual High Sabbath, meaning he has no intention to comply with God's commandment "Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep" (note the plural) we found in Exodus 31.

He needs to kill himself to comply with v.14: "Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death".

Good point! One of the most commonly held misconceptions concerning what is referred to as Good Friday persists because many churches do not understand what a High Sabbath is. The High Sabbath falls according to the Passover timing and not determined by it being a Saturday, as the regular Sabbath day.

Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. Because, the High Sabbath that year fell on a Thursday. The "Preparation Day" was for the High Sabbath, not the regular Sabbath. That is why many today have a hard time reconciling three days and three nights in the belly of the earth. They keep assuming the Sabbath fell on a Saturday and that Jesus was crucified on Friday. It ends up getting messy as they scramble to explain it.

 

[GenemZ]

Everyone knows that Law promoters shout how Holy and Good the Law is but only seem to pick and choose part of it to keep making some of the Law not so Holy and Good as others.

They treat the Law as if it were boogers.

 

[VictorC]

Good point! One of the most commonly held misconceptions concerning what is referred to as Good Friday persists because many churches do not understand what a High Sabbath is. The High Sabbath falls according to the Passover timing and not determined by it being a Saturday, as the regular Sabbath day.

Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. Because, the High Sabbath that year fell on a Thursday. The "Preparation Day" was for the High Sabbath, not the regular Sabbath. That is why many today have a hard time reconciling three days and three nights in the belly of the earth. They keep assuming the Sabbath fell on a Saturday and that Jesus was crucified on Friday. It ends up getting messy as they scramble to explain it.

You're one of the few I've met here who has probably noticed that Mary had to wait until after the sabbath to procure embalming spices, prepared them, and then rested again on the sabbath. The chronology the Gospel accounts give us shows a sabbath on Thursday and another one on Saturday, with one day between to go buy spices.