Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

[ArmyMatt]

not a fan of images of Christ punching and throwing side kicks to pagan gods. that imagery is about as antichrist as you can get, with Christ coming off the Cross to lay some smack down. that basically has Him failing the test in the wilderness by the devil.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

For anyone interested...

Was recently doing comic style-art currently (after prayer/feeling inspired by the Lord to do a piece after having not drawn for years and getting back into it) - and although I'm almost done with what I felt inspired to draw for Christ and Christmas, I came across this ..and all things considered, truly one of the most epic "What If?" battles when thinking on Christ the King being born to die......and how NO other gods can punk him if they wanted to.

For the image really spoke to me on how no other beings labeled "gods" in other cultures could ever dare to challenge Christ - and it reminded me of what was noted in scripture where St. Paul said "having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them.."(Colossians 2:15 ).

On the cross Christ demonstrated His Superiority to all other religions/their respective "heroes" or beings they worship - and as He was willing to die for the world, only HE has the power and right to rule it.



There were others besides this which I was able to find on Jesus in Comic Style art - but as seen here

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not a fan of images of Christ punching and throwing side kicks to pagan gods. that imagery is about as antichrist as you can get, with Christ coming off the Cross to lay some smack down. that basically has Him failing the test in the wilderness by the devil.

If I may say..


Test in the wilderness had to deal with him eating food against violation of his call to Fast, throwing himself from the cliff to test God and then bowing before the Enemy (Matthew 4 and Luke 4). The reality of Christ taking on Human Flesh in order to win victory over the enemy...

None of that has anything to do with Him making a spectacle of the enemies of the Cross (as it concerns the spiritual realm) when He defeated them by His Death/Resurrection - with others noting that the moment he gave up His Spirit to the Father/breathed his last, the spiritual forces of evil were shamed/defeated and beaten. That's how I took the imagery made by Marvel Comics (back in the 90s for development) when it came to Christ being challenged by the gods of the world...for they noted in the comic where Christ had already passed/was dead - and yet the demons still wanted to make mockery of Him as if He had been defeated. But when he addressed them, it was not Him coming down physically (as Christ died/was on the Cross ) - but spiritually addressing all the false gods of the world by the Father's command when he proceeded to enter Hell to address the enemy,.......holding the keys to Death/Hades and taking it back from the false gods/enemies of the Lord ( Rev. 1:18)

It's not as if the Incarnation/Death involved false gods getting a slap on the Wrist - Christ was present in the tomb (as well as on the Cross) when He died physically ..but in the Heavenlies outside the physical realm, all other powers mocking him were mocked/defeated soundly - and it was far from a smack down alone. Christ deciding to defeat all of His enemies BEFORE His death/allowing Himself to be sacrificed is another thing entirely - as I Peter 2:19-25 and John 10 (on him laying down his life for the sheep) notes how he gave Himself up and did not resist his captors ....being led like a sheep before its handlers is silent (as Isaiah 53 notes).

However, after he died and addressed the Powers of Hell, that is another thing entirely....for there's nothing saying the Father ever commanded Christ to remain silent in Death.

Jesus, hanging on the Cross for our salvation, listened to the taunts of those who crucified Him: "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe" (Mark 15:31-32).

But His death proved his identity to many - By the Cross, the Son of God having become man, accomplished our salvation. He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross (Phil. 2:8). By the Cross on Golgotha, the prince of this world was cast out (John 12:31) - as Christ said that this prince has "no hold" on him (John 14:30) - and in dying for us, an end was put to his authority - and the weapon by which he was crushed became the sign of Christ’s victory. And this goes in line with the life of Christ in general, as God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil" (Acts 10:37-38). Satan’s goal was to kill the Incarnate Word, Jesus, when he was a baby (Revelation 12:13 with Matthew 2:1-18), tempt him to sin during his life (Luke 4:1-13) and have him arrested and killed (verse 13 with 22:3-6) - and although Satan "succeeded" in the final plot on Jesus’ life, His death and subsequent resurrection exposed and condemned the devil.

For John tells us, "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work" (1 John 3:8). And Hebrews is more explicit as to how Jesus accomplished this: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death" (Hebrews 2:14-15).

Moreover, ColosSians speaks of this destroyed work in cosmic terms: "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Jesus] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15) - Sin, death, and the devil (along with the demons) were defeated when Jesus died on the Cross and that is never a small thing - and for that, I appreciated the concept the artists did when noting that Christ cannot be conquered nor the Divine ever erased. For He was not up on the Cross after death/suffering simply taking whatever powers in Hell had to throw at him after He had said "It is Finished." For me (holding to the Christus Victor view - more discussed elsewhere as it concerns the Atonement), I've always read the story of Christ's death on the Cross as being something all the demons in Hell were present for thinking they won - and then being soundly embarrassed when he addressed them and their hold on mankind.



Of course, everyone's different - and just as people have no issue with Superman and Jesus existing in the same universe comic book wise, others don't take issue with imagery of Christ defeating spiritual enemies in His Death/Resurrection when it comes to those in the same universe who are pagan in origin and trying to show how they think themselves superior to the work of Christ....and then getting soundly defeated. To me, it was no different than seeing the Passion of the Christ film at the end with the enemy constantly making of Christ as he was suffering - and at the end of it all, he was humiliated.

Christ conquers all...

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And outside of that, even His servants (which are ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation and are "winds"/"flames of fire" per Hebrews 1:14 and Psalm 104:4) are empowered to demonstrate the defeat of darkness that Christ accomplished - as seen best in one comic series I enjoyed growing up entitled "Archangels: The Saga" where they showed the Archangel Michael defeated one of the demonic overlords..

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[ArmyMatt]

None of that has anything to do with Him making a spectacle of the enemies of the Cross

Him coming down from the Cross to lay waste to the enemies humanly speaking, which He does in that comic, is failing the test in the wilderness, which was to make an earthly Messiah. that comic shows Him as one. a Messiah who kicks butt, which is Antichrist.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Him coming down from the Cross to lay waste to the enemies humanly speaking , which He does in that comic, is failing the test in the wilderness, which was to make an earthly Messiah hat comic shows Him as one. a Messiah who kicks butt, which is Antichrist.

To assume the Lord restraining or blasting an enemy is a matter of humanly speaking is like assuming that Christ crushing the enemy under His feet (as well as death) is not a literal event - or that all enemies of Christ won't physically acknowledge Him, (every knee will bow and tongue confess Christ is Lord in Philippians, etc.)

The comic was pertaining to His victory at the Cross - something the Messiah was promised to bring in regards to the Kingdom of God/Heavenly realm winning. Christ in His death was not extinguished of Life - He commended Himself to the Father and, after giving His Spirit to the Father (Luke 23:46-50), was victorious over a defeated/humiliated prince of darkness and all other principalities who God defeated as well. Christ died - and in His death, when He faced Hades/the Grave and the Enemy, he was victorious in all He faced. The comic wasn't about him coming off the Cross and refusing to die - but on Him making a spectacle of His enemies as St. Paul already noted. As said before, St. Paul speaks of this destroyed work in cosmic terms:

"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Jesus] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15) - Sin, death, and the devil (along with the demons) were defeated when Jesus died on the Cross and that is never a small thing - and for that, I appreciated the concept the artists did when noting that Christ cannot be conquered nor the Divine ever erased.

IMHO, it doesn't do anything saying a comic shows someone as an "earthly Messiah" for defeating the Devil in His death/subduing his enemies spiritually as scripture already noted ....nor is Christ ruling the entire universe/defeating the Kingdom of Darkness seperate from the enemy being soundly beaten (Ephesians 2:1-10, I Peter 2:9-10, etc.). For as Christ was already described in the Early Church and by the Apostles, he rules/reigns.

And last I checked - per Revelation 19:11-21 or Revelation 20 (where it says "With justice he judges and makes war..."and him ruling over his enemies plainly while sharply seizing the Devil/rebuking and restraining forcibly) - the Lord being physical didn't equate to Him NOT being the Messiah.

As it is, the test in the wilderness had nothing to do with the Lord conquering the Devil (which He DID) and the powers of Darkness by His death/resurrection - something the Messiah was always destined to do when it comes to him restraining the power of the enemy and taking away the very power of death that the Devil had...and humiliating Him. An earthly Messiah (as the enemy sought to tempt him to become in the wilderness) was based on him seeking to glorify Himself ABOVE what the Father wanted - and to rule in THIS life rather than await the kingdom/dominion the Father would give him when he submitted Himself to the Lord's Will and was exalted above all ...brought back to his position He already had before coming to Earth.

Again, the concept of His disarming and humiliating the powers/principalities by the Cross was focused on the concept of what the Messiah would be - something St. Paul well understood alongside others in the Jewish world when it came to the Messiah conquering His enemies....and when Christ returns, Christ will physically conquer His enemies again as it pertains to those in this life - but the enemy has been defeated. This is why Christ is the head over EVERY power and authority (Colossians 2:9-15). Several suggestions have been made on who the powers/authorities are that Paul speaks of, including (1) demonic powers, (2) the gods of the powerful nations, (3) angels (highly regarded by the heretical teachers of St. Paul's day), or (the government of Rome). The demomic powers is a view strongly held by much of the Early Church - so it's not an issue to me when seeing Christ defeat them in the Spiritual realm..

And as St. Paul noted, "Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.....For He must reign until he has put ALL His enemies under His feet - the last enemy to be destroyed...for He has put everything under His feet." (I Corinthians 15:24-29).

As noted before (when it came to the concept of militancy and the Messiah), I always find it interesting whenever the example of Christ is solely placed within the confines of dying for others even though how he returns is anything but non-violent.

The events of the Second Coming of Christ are found in the Bible, including the Book of Revelation–which is the last book in the New Testament. Jesus will “judge and wage war” (Rev. 19:11), his robe will be “dipped in blood” (19:13), and he will be accompanied by “armies” (19:14) with which he will “strike down the nations” (19:15), including “the Gentiles” in general and “the nations that were opposed to him” in specific. This will result in the “utter destruction of all his enemies”. Furthermore: “in his second coming[,] he will complete their destruction, when he shall put down all opposing rule, principality, and power.” Once he conquers the infidels, Jesus “will rule them with an iron rod” (Revelation 19:15)..

At that time Jesus will “will release the fierce wrath of God” (Rev 19:15) on them, and “he shall execute the severest judgment on the opposers of his truth”. Consequently, “every tribe on earth will mourn because of him” (Rev. 1:7), and they will “express the inward terror and horror of their minds, at his appearing; they will fear his resentment”. ....just as the people of Canaan were terrified by the Israelite army of the Lord. And again, as St. Paul noted:

1 Corinthians 15:24 [Jesus] will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

I Corinthians 15:25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.​

In His First coming He did the things mentioned in Isaiah 61:1-2 - but in His Second Coming He will do the things in verses 2-3. For when He returns He will bring judgment on unbelievers. This will be the day of God’s “vengeance.”

To say the Messiah "kicked butt" at the Cross would be an understatement - His Death literally reshaped the whole of all reality and that's not a small issue...

But all of that comes directly back to why the Incarnation is so important to begin with when seeing how His coming into the world was monumental - as another Christian comic (from a Catholic perspective) well illustrated when it came to showing how superior Christ is because of His living as the Messiah was meant:

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[ArmyMatt]

you can say anything you want to try to justify it, the image of Christ hitting Apollo with a lariat, or a flying elbow from the top rope, or whatever is not right. maybe a Transfiguration comic should show Him going all Super Sayian.

it is a vain attempt to make something that should never be hip or contemporary, hip and contemporary.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

you can say anything you want to try to justify it, the image of Christ hitting Apollo with a lariat, or a flying elbow from the top rope, or whatever is not right. maybe a Transfiguration comic should show Him going all Super Sayian.

it is a vain attempt to make something that should never be hip or contemporary, hip and contemporary.

As said before:

"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Jesus] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15)

St. Paul speaks of this destroyed work in cosmic terms as well as St. John and others - all of it not mincing words whatsoever (and neither the Church Fathers) when it came to the ultimate defeat of the Enemy or the principalities mocking him being mocked themselves.
Until you can show that St. Paul and the Early Church did not mean what they meant when it came to Christ being victorious over all spiritual powers at the Cross, it doesn't do anything saying that Christ defeating spiritual powers mocking Him is opposite of the Messiah. For the scriptures don't go in line (nor tradition) with that idea) - and it avoids dealing with the very graphic language St. Paul himself already noted in several places of Christ humiliating the Enemy/Devil and defeating Him soundly.

As it is (As already noted earlier), by that logic one has no business being involved in comics at any point since they (from Batman to Superman) already do depictions of Christ on multiple points (including them interacting with Him) - and thus, it'd be inconsistent when it comes to one level one is uncomfortable with but then switch in another setting. Others have already said before that even showing Christ in Icons with the devil defeated is wrong when it comes to his stances or the halos surrounding him (others ironically saying that also seemed Super-Saiyan as well) - but of course, that's the reality of imagery and context. It is what it is.....

 

[ArmyMatt]

if those comics show Christ coming down from the Cross and kicking tail, that is just theologically wrong. even if it was obviously Satan that Christ was jumping down from the Cross and nailing with the Stone Cold Stunner, it's would not be right. I cannot imagine any holy elder of our Church approving of that kind of imagery.

the defeat of the spiritual powers happened at the Cross, none of which involved Jesus looking like Bruce Lee.

and I am not against Christ being used in comics as a medium, but just like with any kind of art, it better be the right one.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

if those comics show Christ coming down from the Cross and kicking tail, that is just theologically wrong..

That (as said before) in and of itself no more shows a theological issue than the Early Church Fathers noting the Devil being humiliated at being deceived at having killed Christ and demons trembling before the Lord. Eternity has no sense of time whatsoever - and Christ being immediately in the Afterlife/Hades addressing all the Spiritual principalities as well as preaching to the Spirits in Prison (I Peter 3:18-22) is not something one can conceptualiz 100%....no one knows fully all that entailed the moment he said "Into Your Hands I commit My Spirit" nor is there any room assuming Christ didn't address the principalities after defeat via the Cross was complete. It's the dynamic of how others see it when they envision it.

even if it was obviously Satan that Christ was jumping down from the Cross and nailing with the Stone Cold Stunner, it's would not be right. I cannot imagine any holy elder of our Church approving of that kind of imagery.

That I can more than understand.

Interestingly enough, there were many similar things noted in the Early Church when it came to depictions of Christ speaking to the Enemy/defeating him. The “decade of blood” coming to mind alongside other periods where others didn't like certain imagery of Christ/the Devil or other depictions.

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Imagery being right to one person (as it concerns the era one is in) is not indicative to all having the same level of response. Even Icons were things others had to wrestle with when the imagery being from Greek Culture (which they deemed pagan due to the illustrations) and the ways it was utilized by the Church in Byzantine in order to illustrate Christ in ways the culture could respond to. One excellent study on the issue can be seen in Icons: And, The Name of God by Sergiĭ Bulgakov. And there's another discussion elsewhere on the issue of icons/history...

the defeat of the spiritual powers happened at the Cross, none of which involved Jesus looking like Bruce Lee.

As Christ in His glory is beyond comprehension and no one was there absolute in the spiritual, nothing says Christ did not engage His enemies as part of his shaming the powers at the Cross...or that it was somehow wrong to have him defeat others Bruce Lee style - just as others have noted there's nothing saying Christ in speaking to the Enemy looks akin to how many icons already depict him when it comes to his demeanor or gait. One would have to assume before going into it that how it appeared post-Death on the Cross could not have involved Christ beating the demons in an epic manner...

What is known for certain is what the apostles noted on the essence of what the Messiah did - and as St. John noted, "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work" (1 John 3:8). And Hebrews is more explicit as to how Jesus accomplished this: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death" (Hebrews 2:14-15). How that looked in the Spiritual when the Messiah died on the Cross and entered the Spiritual realm is something no one will ever know fully what the images looked like since we're dealing with a realm that no one is privy to 100% this side of eternity. We already see PLENTY of cases where spiritual warfare occurred - angels fighting against demons/fallen ones (like it was with the Angel Gabriel in Daniel 10:10-15 when he had to ask for assistance in battling the Prince of Persia.......or angels in horses of fire/chariots in II Kings 6:17-19 or St. David seeing the Angel of the Lord literally standing over Jerusalem between Heaven and Earth during the punishment from God in I Chronicles 21:10-29 or St. Jacob wrestling with the Angel of the Lord PHYSICALLY all night in Genesis 35:1-15....so many others). The point being that Christ himself is noted alongside others in issues pertaining to fighting - both spiritually and physically - and that's something that has a myriad of ways of presenting. We don't know how the fights looked like - but we know such occurred.

and I am not against Christ being used in comics as a medium, but just like with any kind of art, it better be the right one

Saying what is or isn't the right one goes back to the issue of why some like comics - and why others don't like it at all. I'm not against Christ being used in comics as a medium - but when it shows Christ being defeated, I do have to pause/consider. Of course, there are a lot of people who have issue with Christ shown at all existing alongside all other heroes instead of how he's in with Icons - and even others who have issue with any artistic depiction of Christ, be it in comics or books or anything else (outside of icons). And that's something when it comes to others responding differently....

 

[ArmyMatt]

if it was okay to depict Christ sidekicking pagan gods, I am sure the early Church would have done it. there is no depiction I have seen that is historic that shows that kind of imagery.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and it was Christ NOT coming down from the Cross that defeated the pagan gods. it's poor imagery at best, and wrong at worst.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

and it was Christ NOT coming down from the Cross that defeated the pagan gods. it's poor imagery at best, and wrong at worst..

That's actually NOT what the entire comic was remotely about, seeing that Christ had already died in the comic and it noted such plainly (for anyone going through it fully in what was linked from beginning to end). One not actually reading the comic would be quick to assume it was about Christ NOT coming down from the cross - the context was Christ defeating the enemies of the Cross as a demonstration of his making a spectacle of enemies after He died and experienced life in the Spiritual realm (even though it seemed to others that He had perished).

As noted in the comic from Marvel:

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There's a context.

Opinion will always differ just as others feel imagery of Christ in comics is never good - a bad decision in the least and against God at worst. But that's the nature of comic art.

if it was okay to depict Christ sidekicking pagan gods, I am sure the early Church would have done it. there is no depiction I have seen that is historic that shows that kind of imagery.

Actually, they already did that with physical dominating when it came to Christ having his foot on demons - similar to what Eve was told when the Lord prophesied that the enemy would bruise his heel while Christ would crush His head and what St. Paul noted in I Corinthians 15 that Christ would have his enemies brought/subdued under his feet fully.

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The imagery was relevant to the times, as it concerns how Greeks consider visualization with epic aspects and showing Christ to others in like-wise manner. They could show imagery of Christ with his foot on the backs of his enemies because they saw that demonstrated with the enemies of their day when it came to defeat/shame - but of course, as they weren't exposed to imagery of things like enemies being side-kicked as you'd see in Far Eastern Culture (as with martial arts), of course you'd not see depictions of Him as such. But with his foot on the backs of demonic powers, that was already heavy enough/very aggressive in imagery - especially considering how many people in the culture revered demonic powers who did the same. The imagery of the icons was already contemporary in the time it was developed - just as other imagery is today.


There was never anything saying Christ could not be shown kicking a demon anymore than Christ subduing the Dragon in Revelation......just as there'd be nothing wrong with showing Christ via His saints defeating the powers of Darkness because of the Cross/Resurrection. Imagery varies...

 

[ArmyMatt]

there is a difference between an image of Christ standing on the bound devil, and Him sidekicking Zeus in the gut.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

there is a difference between an image of Christ standing on the bound devil, and Him sidekicking Zeus in the gut.

Saying there's a difference doesn't show objectively where such is the case anymore than it'd be with saying there's a difference between kicking someone and having your foot on their back when it comes to the concept of dominating an enemy. A beat-down is a beat-down however you slice it..

And IMHO - different as it was from how others may see it - Marvel did a good job of showing what could have occurred after the Death of Christ when he addressed the spiritual powers of Hell (of which the Greek Gods and all other deities in other religions against Christ are connected to).

Christ standing upon a defeated/beaten devil is not disconnected from his standing upon and beating into submission the enemies of the cross from all religions - be it with beating or kicking, as physical addressment is physical addressment ....and for those in Greek culture, it was already a big deal to be presented with Christ conquering all the Greek and Roman Gods (cruel as they were to the suffering of man) by his sacrifice on the cross. They had NO issue with the concept of the gods being shown as being beaten and did so in order to make a point.

St. Paul spoke on the issue of the gods being humiliated in I Corinthians 8 when it came to noting their true reality and how Christ is superior in all aspects - including the issue of might...it was no small concern in a culture where the gods were always portrayed as conquering.

And with icons when it comes to defeating spiritual powers (in the cultural understanding that had relative to their times), we see this in a myriad of ways. Just as others used weapons to defeat their enemies in those times, it's no surprise that Margaret the Virgin-Martyr, known as Margaret of Antioch in the West, and as and Saint Marina the Great-Martyr in the East, often holds a hammer in her icons - depicted beating on a demon into submission..

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And as said before, all of that goes back to the realization of how Christ being shown physically conquering others is not a small footnote historically. For again, St. Paul noted, "Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.....For He must reign until he has put ALL His enemies under His feet - the last enemy to be destroyed...for He has put everything under His feet." (I Corinthians 15:24-29).

But everyone's different.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, but Christ did not beat the demonic powers by throwing fists. as for Macrina, she did. one is making a false image, one is not. Christ destroys the evil by truly loving them.

 

[Cappadocious]

"The gatekeepers of Hades tremble when they behold me, clothed in the bloodstained garment of vengeance..."

But seriously, that comic is ridiculous.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yeah, but Christ did not beat the demonic powers by throwing fists. as for Macrina, she did. one is making a false image, one is not. Christ destroys the evil by truly loving them

Claiming Christ destroys the Devil or the demonic powers isn't separate from love (as God is Love) - and to assume that Love is separate from physical restraint of enemies isn't what Love is defined as within scripture when it comes to how enemies are often treated by the Lord. For God was still operating in Love when it came to His wrath or defeat of his enemies physically. Of course, the aspect of love can only go so far - as some took it to mean the Lord never had any aggression toward demonic powers and intended for them to repent as well...although in the Early Church, it was accepted by some when it came to concept such as universal reconciliation... (as seen in how even Elder Paisios would pray that the devil would repent). The Mercy of God is a complicated and nuanced matter - as said best on Ancient Faith Radio on salvation (similar to conversations from before here, here, here and here/ here ).

That said, there's no evidence at any point saying that Christ didn't beat demonic powers by throwing fists or other means, even though there's plenty already noting where he physically restrains his enemies in regards to the principalities and demonic powers who all eventually submit to Him by force. One has to assume before hand that there is no such thing as combat/fights in the spiritual realm - and as it stands, there are already multiple cases/points where such occurred.

The concept of Macrina beating a demonic power was not done separate from the idea that Christ also was capable of doing so and did so already in precedent - as it concerns his example being that which the Saints are to follow. For if Christ didn't beat down spiritual enemies, there'd be no reason for imagery showing Macrina doing so - but as Christ did so spiritually, it is fine for her to do likewise.

There is war in Heaven and demonic powers have consistently been fought against by God/His forces - Book of Revelations 12:7-10 - and Jesus defeated Satan and all spiritual forces of evil on the cross (Colossians 2:14-15), while Satan will ultimately be physically beaten/restrained further and his destiny is in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10, Matthew 25:41).

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As said before, one has to assume what image they wish to see BEFORE they see it in order to assume Christ never beat demonic powers - or switch the definitions when it comes to him having his feet upon the backs of his enemies (As scripture notes repeatedly in regards to enemies humiliated - Genesis 49:7-9, Joshua 10:23-25, 2 Samuel 8:1-3, etc.) and saying that it was different from throwing fists in defeating someone ....for in Near-Eastern culture, both were seen as being a part of the concept of dominance of one's enemies and scripture already notes this.

Revelation shows the same concept - and either we accept it at all points ...or we accept it at none. One cannot say of the Devil "Christ's feet on his back is good in victory" and then say "Christ subduing him with his fists is bad." For to do so is by nature making an incomplete image of what something is.....and when it comes to the spiritual powers of darkness, Christ defeats them by the Might He has and is Worthy of due to who He is - the Son of God.

How that goes with portrayal in comic books as is done - it really goes based on whatever the author presents when it comes to combat.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"The gatekeepers of Hades tremble when they behold me, clothed in the bloodstained garment of vengeance..."

One of the most intensive parts of the Holy Week chant..

By mine own will, the earth covers me, O
Mother, but the gatekeepers of hell tremble at
seeing me clothed in the blood-stained
garments of vengeance; for when I have
vanquished mine enemies on the cross, I shall
arise as God and magnify you.​

 

[ArmyMatt]

One cannot say of the Devil "Christ's feet on his back is good in victory" and then say "Christ subduing him with his fists is bad."

yes you can. one is Biblical and makes a theological point of who Christ is. the other is just trying to be slick. Christological imagery should invoke prayer and repentence, not vainly attempt to look cool.

so yes, you can.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yes you can. one is Biblical and makes a theological point of who Christ is. the other is just trying to be slick. .

Christological imagery should invoke prayer and repentence, not vainly attempt to look cool.
so yes, you can

That - as said before - no more verifies anything than claiming "Blue is better than Red because Blue makes you sad and Red makes you happy" - it is subjective, without real evidence and based on one's own preference. There are numerous instances in comics where standing on the backs of others was done to be slick - but one doesn't read that back into examples where the enemies of Christ are under his feet. The same goes for when the scriptures note (as St. Paul and others point out ) that Christ came to destroy the Devil's Work and humiliated/made a spectacle of the principalities on the Cross.

Talking on images "not vainly attempt to look cool" is assertion without actually dealing with the issue - seeing that others have noted the same things on icons when it comes to them noting their resistance to it when they came out (as it was in the contemporary imagery of the Greek culture surrounding believers and others already said plainly at first it shouldn't be done because of how it was for the sake of being contemporary).

One cannot be inconsistent in that regard or try advocating for comics at all on that basis since others in the Church have noted that even comics should not be supported when it comes to the dynamic of pagan influences. From Batman to Superman to Avengers and many others where Christ has been consistently portrayed alongside them living in the same universe- you can't have it both ways with talking on imagery of Christ leading to prayer and not dealing with where the same comics one loves/advocates already has imagery of him that not all agree upon.

Claiming Christological imagery needing to lead to prayer/repentance is NOT the same as showing universally where all other believers have not done so - as you not doing so at a certain image is not the same as showing how all others are. There are plenty seeing images of Christ on the backs of demons and it doesn't lead to prayer or repentance - but to try speaking as if they are the sample for all groups would be over-reach as well as assuming without warrant.

And at the end of the day, unless one actually deals with how Near-Eastern culture/Scripture already saw the issue of physically dominating one's enemies, it's circular claiming Christ kicking a demon into submission is different than him having his foot on their backs with them in submission.

So no - without real evidence, you can't..

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am pretty sure there are reasons against making imagery that shows them as dynamic for the very reason that they tend to invoke emotion. it's one of the reasons that we never depict Christ in agony on the Cross. and I am pretty sure the iconographers on here would agree with me.

unless you can show any support from Church history that supports that kind of imagery, then it is not appropriate. if you can show any saint that said it is okay, I am all eyes to read them. if not, yes I can.

you are the one putting up modernist images of Christ coming off the Cross (which is what the Pharisees and the other thief wanted Him to do), to kick some pagan tail. so the burden of proof is on you to show why that is correct for that medium.