What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[from scratch]

I have no idea how you could derive that meaning from 1 Tim. 1:9 as obviously that is not true.

The law is for? Sinners.

s

Who then are the righteous?

 

[squint]

No the legalist is take all or nothing. There is no working with them.

They seem to readily admit they sin as well, no different than your bunch. And they also try not to as well, just like your bunch.

Still failing to see where your differences really are.

 

[from scratch]

If you are claiming to be sinless under grace just say so.

In your understanding, yes. The Bible says righteousness is by declaration of God in Rom 4. The righteousness God requires can be acquired no other way.

 

[squint]

Who then are the righteous?

I've given the factual construct that Paul put forth on this matter several times. I accept his depiction. One party to the 'lump' of Paul was a sinner, not saved and condemned under law and grace. All RIGHTFULLY so.

I expect you might get around to a factual conversation at some point if you wanted to.

 

[squint]

In your understanding, yes. The Bible says righteousness is by declaration of God in Rom 4. The righteousness God requires can be acquired no other way.

In my understanding? I've never claimed the sinless perfection of my mind or heart. That would be my last conclusion if I wanted to be honest.

 

[from scratch]

They seem to readily admit they sin as well, no different than your bunch. And they also try not to as well, just like your bunch.

Still failing to see where your differences really are.

When they sin, do they want the law or do they run for grace bypassing the law?

I don't try not to sin. Not practicing sin is a way of life for me in my redeemed state. I simply have no desire to sin.

 

[squint]

When they sin, do they want the law or do they run for grace bypassing the law?

I suspect their formulas for reinstatement are not much different than yours. Repent, turn from sin, try and try again.

I don't try not to sin. Not practicing sin is a way of life for me in my redeemed state. I simply have no desire to sin.

Nevertheless the scripture constructs dictate the impossibility of claiming ourselves sinless. And reality proves it frequently enough as well.

 

[from scratch]

I've given the factual construct that Paul put forth on this matter several times. I accept his depiction. One party to the 'lump' of Paul was a sinner, not saved and condemned under law and grace. All RIGHTFULLY so.

I expect you might get around to a factual conversation at some point if you wanted to.

I readily confess with Paul on the issue. There is a war going on. I have put on the armor of God and have the shield of faith which quench the fiery darts of the wicked.

 

[from scratch]

In my understanding? I've never claimed the sinless perfection of my mind or heart. That would be my last conclusion if I wanted to be honest.

Maybe you don't understand the position of the Christian according to the New Testament.

 

[from scratch]

I suspect their formulas for reinstatement are not much different than yours. Repent, turn from sin, try and try again.

Nevertheless the scripture constructs dictate the impossibility of claiming ourselves sinless. And reality proves it frequently enough as well.

Reinstatement? Oh yeah I remember that control tactic of organized religion. Oh how well do I remember it.

 

[Elder 111]

Several have already noticed this fabrication, and have already jumped Elder111's case seeking support for his contention that experience has shown never comes.
So...
This seems like a good place to remind everyone of what Elder111 claimed before:


There isn't a hint of the sabbath being a test of any sort to God's redeemed possession anywhere in the Bible. You didn't get this from any Biblically literate source. This is further evidence that you're a seventh-day Adventist, who alone made this up.

Every man has been placed on trial, as were Adam and Eve in Eden. As the tree of knowledge was placed in the midst of the garden of Eden, so the Sabbath command is placed in the midst of the decalogue. In regard to the fruit of the tree of knowledge, the restriction was made, “Ye shall not eat of it, ... lest ye die.” Of the Sabbath, God said, Ye shall not defile it, but keep it holy. “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” As the tree of knowledge was the test of Adam’s obedience, so the fourth command is the test that God has given to prove the loyalty of all his people. The experience of Adam is to be a warning to us so long as time shall last. It warns us not to receive any assurance from the mouth of men or of angels that will detract one jot or tittle from the sacred law of Jehovah.​

Linking the tree in the garden with the sabbath reveals your true source.
And yet in this same document written by Ellen White opens with this unBiblical claim:

The Sabbath was given to all mankind to commemorate the work of creation.​

We've already seen this isn't true. The sabbath wasn't given to the Gentiles, no one in Barbados has this commandment foreign to them, and it appears nowhere as a commandment given to God's adopted children.

Elder111's reliance is on Ellen White.
Not the Bible.

Why don't you say that you reject Ex. 16 and God's words in Verse 4.

 

[squint]

Reinstatement? Oh yeah I remember that control tactic of organized religion. Oh how well do I remember it.

If again you claim no method of turning from sin that would be an untruth. You turn no different than a legalist, formula's notwithstanding.

Trying to suppose your bunch is somehow different is still not working.

 

[Tangible]

The last option here "A Christians can be saved without living up to the principles of the Ten Commandments" is really quite comical.

Is there a person who has ever lived (except Our Lord) who ever lived up to the principles of the Ten Commandments? No one can even get past the first one without being found guilty.

 

[squint]

The last option here "A Christians can be saved without living up to the principles of the Ten Commandments" is really quite comical.

Is there a person who has ever lived (except Our Lord) who ever lived up to the principles of the Ten Commandments? No one can even get past the first one without being found guilty.

That would be particularly true if we believe Jesus' Statements of facts that evil thoughts are evil and they also defile us.

The filter get's cranked exceptionally tight by that measure. Camel and needle eye anyone?

I've proposed that high speed blending of said camel to a sufficiently thin liquid form would allow same to at least pass through said eye...at least one direction

 

[GenemZ]

Then indeed something can separate us from the love of God.

Romans 8:38-39

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present
nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


​

Nothing in creation (that includes yourself) can separate you from the Love of God. But, sin can separate us from experiencing it.

God is still loving us while he spanks us for sin we refuse to admit to. Like a father who loves his son, spanks his son for doing wrong.

No I don't denigrate the law. God replaced it with mercy in His grace just like He said He would.

God has always been merciful. The truth that the Lord is merciful permeates OT scripture. Its God character to be merciful.

The difference between Law and grace, is that Law hinders and squelches sin. Grace empowers and has us walking above sin. Like walking on water. Grace does not mean God quickly forgives us. Grace is real power from God that causes us to walk in power where we can not normally help ourselves in the energy of our flesh.

2 Corinthians 12:9

But he said to me,“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.


​

Some confuse grace for something it is not... Grace is not mercy. Grace is not forgiveness. Grace is God granting His power to the unworthy, enabling them to function as one who is worthy.

We do not deserve to be called worthy in ourselves. God's grace, when accepted, grants us the status of functioning as one who is worthy in God's sight.

 

[Tangible]

God's grace, when accepted, grants us the status of functioning as one who is worthy in God's sight.

Decision theology?

 

[VictorC]

Why don't you say that you reject Ex. 16 and God's words in Verse 4.

Well, mostly because I don't. That was what you did when you tried to misapply Exodus 16 to your 'sabbath test' by changing the tense of all the principle verbs (and recipients) involved.
And you have never supported your claims. Your latest fabrication is as untenable as your previous one.

 

[shturt678s]

Not aware of the conveyance of sinless perfection in this present life by any Lutheran body I'm aware of.

Rom.3:24, ie, just check LCMS, WELS, and ELCA regarding their solis fides, construed with Rom.3:28 - I think you'll find "declared righteous by faith" from heaven 's view.

Sinless perfection from heaven's view secretly and forensically called from heaven upon one's Mk.1:15, ie, conveyance.

btw been about 3 decades for me, but don't think it has changed much?

Old Jack

 

[GenemZ]

Decision theology?

I believe.. you are confusing saving grace with the post salvation grace.

No right decision can be made without God's grace being with us. If it were not? We could only reject God's will. That is not to say that God's grace makes us make a right decision. We also can choose to reject in the same freedom that grace grants us.

God's grace places us in a place where we are free to accept, or reject, a right choice. Without God's grace working on us? Our sin nature would always run contrary to God's will. God's grace controls our sin nature when God places us in a position to make a choice. God's grace does not make us make the choice...

Here is one reason why we must have God's grace in order to choose to do his will..

Galatians 5:17

For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the Spirit, and
the Spirit is opposed to the flesh; for these are antagonistic
to each other, so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
​

If God did not grant us his power of grace to control our sin nature when He determines for us to make a choice? What does that passage tell you? Could any believer even choose to do God's will outside of being granted God power of grace?

 

[squint]

Rom.3:24, ie, just check LCMS, WELS, and ELCA regarding their solis fides, construed with Rom.3:28 - I think you'll find "declared righteous by faith" from heaven 's view.

Sinless perfection from heaven's view secretly and forensically called from heaven upon one's Mk.1:15, ie, conveyance.

btw been about 3 decades for me, but don't think it has changed much?

Old Jack

If any attribution of anything results in dishonestly saying we 'have' [present tense] no sin such declarations would seem little more than a present fantasy and a fib against the facts of scripture to boot.