No new Mosques?

[smaneck]

For a Muslim to do any of those things is sufficient to condemn a Muslim to Hellfire

Wearing a marriage band? Seriously?

He was baptized in the UCC United Church of Christ

,

So was I.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Wearing a marriage band? Seriously?

,

So was I.

Wearing or owning Gold Jewelry is prohibited for a Muslim male. This is to protect a women's dower which is usually given in the form of gold jewelry. It helps prevent an angry husband from taking it back. Also helps assure the woman will keep it in the event of a divorce.

 

[smaneck]

Wearing or owning Gold Jewelry is prohibited for a Muslim male.

Yeah, but does it send you to hell?

 

[smaneck]

That is true. but, they were murdered and not tried in any court that I am aware of.

The last execution of Baha'is in Iran took place in 1992, so I guess that is earlier than your 'last twenty years.' The last Christian to be executed for apostasy was Hossein Soodman who was hanged in 1990.

I hope you do not think that was sanctioned by anything in the Qur'an

The reason an apostate could be killed during Muhammad's time is that it often meant they were changing sides literally during a battle. It was therefore considered an act of treason. That situation simply doesn't apply today. Sometimes Christians forget what their own Bible said:

Deuteronomy 17:2-20

“If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die shall be put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness."

 

[WoodrowX2]

Yeah, but does it send you to hell?

Although we do not know who will enter hell. It still is not wise to sin deliberatly. Most Muslims will try to live their life with the thought any deliberate sin can send you to Hell. Makes you think twice before sinning.

 

[WoodrowX2]

The last execution of Baha'is in Iran took place in 1992, so I guess that is earlier than your 'last twenty years.' The last Christian to be executed for apostasy was Hossein Soodman who was hanged in 1990.



The reason an apostate could be killed during Muhammad's time is that it often meant they were changing sides literally during a battle. It was therefore considered an act of treason. That situation simply doesn't apply today. Sometimes Christians forget what their own Bible said:

Deuteronomy 17:2-20

“If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die shall be put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness."

I can only find the English Language reports about Soodman. I am not too certain if he was executed for apostasy or for "Proselytizing a religion other than Islam" as he was known to have been an apostate for over 20 years before being Arrested.

Iran has it in their constitution that apostasy is not a crime, but I do not know when that was added.

 

[smaneck]

I can only find the English Language reports about Soodman. I am not too certain if he was executed for apostasy or for "Proselytizing a religion other than Islam" as he was known to have been an apostate for over 20 years before being Arrested.

But it wasn't illegal to be an apostate during the Pahlavi Regime.

Iran has it in their constitution that apostasy is not a crime, but I do not know when that was added.

I don't think the Constitution mentions apostasy however people have been convicted in the basis of art. 167 which states that if the judges do not find the basis for a decision in civil law then they should "cite Islamic reliable sources or a valid fatwa to arrive at a judgment and issue a verdict."
The 'ulama run the judicial system in Iran, so they pretty much get their way.

 

[smaneck]

I do expect a mod to ban you permanently for this nonsense.

If you and Crypto had been in the least interested in the forum rules you would have paid attention to this one:

"Mutual respect means that neither Christians nor non-Christians will mock, degrade or belittle each others religious beliefs, or make posts that are disruptive to the peace and harmony of the forum."

To refer to the Black Stone as a vagina, or the Kaaba as dedicated to Aphrodite or to call Muhammad a pedophile all fall under the category of degrading and belittling other's religious beliefs and disrupting peace and harmony.

And no, Crypto it doesn't matter whether you think it is true or not.

Just so you know.

 

[kenzo0]

During my 45+ years as a Christian I loved Jesus(as) with all my heart and still do. I did not leave Christianity because I stopped loving Jesus(as) but because I do love him and sincerely believe He led me to Islam, although it was a long Journey. That took 20 years after Leaving Christianity.

I left Christianity because as a Pastor and Evangelistic Missionary, I came to feel I was misleading people and could no longer do so. I felt it was hypocritical to continue calling myself a Christian. I continued to Love Jesus(as) but could no longer believe the depiction of him created in the NT.

During that time I had no contact with Muslims and was living in a part of Texas in which there were no Muslims or Mosques. I found Islam through personal prayer to Jesus(as) and possibly a miracle

In 2004 I was living in the small town of Tennessee Colony. Texas a very Red Necktown smack in the Center of the Bible Belt. I was diagnosed with lung cancer and began preparing for my final days. But my wife passed away suddenly just a few weeks after my diagnosis. I went into a very deep depression and began drinking quite heavily. In May of 2005 I realized the stupidity of my drunken binge sobered up and set forth to regain control of my life. I began with a general clean up of the house. During my clean up I found my old Qur'an in Arabic that I had bought while I was a student at Rabat. I had bought it as a study guide to help me learn to read Arabic.


It had been many years since I had last read anything in Arabic. I was curious as to if I could still read it. I opened it to Surah Fatiha and the first line literally jumped out at me.

Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem. "In the name of Allaah, the provider, the Most merciful"



It was like the words glowed and completely filled me with an inner peace I never felt before.



I turned back to the preface and saw it was the supplication:


“Auzu Billahi Mina Al Shaytan Al Rajeem”.
(In Allaah(swt) I seek refuge from the evils of Satan)


After over 20 years of not speaking Arabic it all flowed back to me. I could not stop reading and I was not simply reading words, the feeling of each ayyat came upon me with an indescribable warmth and sense of understanding. I could not stop. I do not know how long I read I know it was for at least 48 hours and I still could not stop the feeling was so powerful and filling me with a strong sense of love and joy on the morning of what I believe was the 3rd day I finally set the Qur'an down and knew I was Muslim. I instantly said the Shahadah and knew I was now part of the Ummah. I did not even know if there were any Muslims in Texas much less if there were any Mosques.




I realized I was hungry and there was no food in the house. The nearest store was only a mile from me so I decided to walk down to it. When I entered the store there was a stranger from out of town. He was dark skinned. Our eyes met and he smiled and said "As salaamu Alaikum Akhi" without hesitation I answered back "Wa alaikum wa reamatullahi wa baraktuhu" He then asked"How long have you been Muslim, I answered about 15 minutes.


He then asked me if I had ever been in a Mosque, I said no. He then invited me to go to the Mosque in Tyler on Friday. I accepted. I later learned his name was Aadil and he had just moved to Texas from Pakistan. He had gotten lost and accidentally drove into Tennessee Colony, He had stopped at the store to get directions. Aadil and I became very close friends and still are although he has since moved back to Pakistan.


Things then moved so fast it became a blur. My youngest Daughter who I had not seen for 15 years called me on the telephone. She had been contacted by the VA and had learned they were concerned about my health. She insisted I move in with her family in Austin, which I did. The biggest surprise was finding out she had accepted Islam 10 years before and was married to a fine pious Muslim man and had 2 children I had never seen. A bigger surprise was soon to come. I discovered all of my children had reverted to Islam and all of my Grandchildren were Muslim.

it was wonderful, so far, I believe that the Muslims who not really practise Islam are innocent.

(bold)
I'm sorry, but I can't bear if you said you love Jesus.
please note that Jesus(as) was not Jesus Christ, Jesus(with PBUH) was not Jesus (without PBUH).
if you want to discuss further, I would like you to come: http://www.christianforums.com/t7780685/

(underlined)
it was amazing, for "the weed among the wheat" you had blame the sower.


(italic+bold)
l-Fatiha too, which lead me to Jesus Christ and left Jesus Islam and Muhammad

 

[WoodrowX2]

The last time I was in Iran was during the Pahlavi Regime. Perhaps that is why I remember it as a very peaceful Place.

 

[smaneck]

That woman was the chief of an Arab tribe.

So you are telling us she was the one responsible for ambushing and killing nine Muslims.

 

[kenzo0]

Shucks, I'm still waiting to be accused of committing suicide bombings. According to some people I should be doing at least one a day.

To listen to some folks Muslims should be extinct or we get resurrected after each suicide.

Before any one beats me to it.

A suicide bomber blows himself up and goes to heaven,

He is immediately greeted by a group of men, they come up to him and start introducing themselves.

"Hi, I'm Thomas Jefferson"

"Hi, I'm George Washington"

"Hi, I'm Jim Bowie"

He looks confused and somebody says "You did know suicide bombers get greeted by 72 Virginians"

if the bombers are not greeted by 72 Virginians/houry.. that's mean, you believe they are in hell...

so, you do know that these men are in hell now?
according to what?
because they are sinners? or because they are not muslim?
for I believe, even mother Theresa was not in Islam's heaven now

 

[kenzo0]

Sadly every religion has those claiming to be adherents, but disobey. I can find atrocities done by people claiming to be Muslim, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Sikh, Druze, Yazidi and Hindu.

and please bring up too their scripture which instructed them to do so, Woodrow

That is not prove that any of those promote atrocities and/or violence.

As to a political side of religion?

Conduct a poll and see how many Americans will tell you America is a Christian Nation based on Christian Principles.

and what is that Christian Principles?
please show me, according to Christ teaching.
Christianity is a religion, and a religion found by human being, for God Whom the Creator not create religion.
everybody who go to church and call themselves "Christian"(religion follower) doesn't mean they are "Christian"(Christ follower), the concrete example was your testimony about a Pastor and Evangelist Missionaries.

 

[kenzo0]

What comes from it is hell. Good luck accepting that!

Crypto, I don't think He will judge people by peoples' religion, because He is not Allah, who will cast unbeliever(kufar) to the hell.

to get into hell or heaven it's all His mercy, for our good deed will never been enough to pay the heaven for us.

I hope, you remembered what Jesus said" “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."


as long as everybody does the will of Him, He have promised Heaven for them.
please don't judge, but love.

God bless

 

[kenzo0]

The question still stands. Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for Apostasy in the past 20 years?

I can not find any names even on Anti-Islam sites.

I lived in Islamic Nations as a Christian Missionary and never heard of any one being killed for apostasy.

you never heard, doesn't mean it doesn't happened, brother.

there's one thing that I wanted to ask you, Is it a correct to kill apostates?


you can not find, because this things are hardly exposes by media.


anybody who left Christianity wouldn't be questioned by Christians "religion" body...for Christianity do realize that it was personal relation between God and human, unlike Islam.
in a city in a country with Muslims majority populations, there are some cases which apostasy back to embrace Islam again in his life's and his family's sake.
but I would like represent to you one name, came from Indonesia whom persecuted last year; Omega Suparno.
source:alMaliknews: Allahu Akbar!!! Trio Mujahid Islamic Blasphemy Jepara Execution Apostate

RIGID IMPLEMENT SHARIA

Now, Ustadz Amir Mahmud, Sony Sudarsono, and Agus Suprapto a prisoner in Jepara PN. The first session of the agenda indictment readings held on Thursday (13/06/2013). All three are threatened with the death penalty, with a coated article bondage, among others: article 340 of the Criminal Code in conjunction with Article 55 paragraph 1 (1), Article 338 of the Criminal Code in conjunction with Article 55 paragraph 1 (1), Article 353 paragraph 3 of the Criminal Code in conjunction with Article 55 paragraph 1 (1) ; Article 351 of the Criminal Code in conjunction with Article 55 paragraph 1 (1).

Although the death penalty threatened in sight, but three young mujahid undaunted. They believe that doing amaliah as worship. "Through this amaliah I want to convey a message to the apostates and apostasy activists. Do not even insulting Islam. If Islam is insulted, the lives of the fighters ready to stake! "He said.Jihad Trio Jepara Mujahid had the support of the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI). Trustees Warriors FPI Central Java, Ustadz Said Sungkar, judging their actions are in accordance with the Shari'a texts sanctioning the apostate.

"As the obligation of a Muslim, the Prophet said," Man baddala dinahu faqtuluh "(Whoever swap religion then kill him). Because in Indonesia does not apply Islamic law, then the sinners than all the Muslims, then they took over the responsibility to save the Muslims who do not run the Shari'a, "he explained. "Indeed, if the Islamic Shari'ah applies the death penalty are setting (the apostate) is qadhi. But because there is no Islamic law, the Shari'a it applies "manistatho'a." Who can afford to run, it could be, "he added.

Ustadz Said even praised as the three brave heroes who are ready with all the risks. "These are people who dare to take over the burden of the mandate should be borne by the state. But since the country's treason against the Sharia, then they save in order not to make it Shariah innocent, "he said.

In a religion ... the defendants justify such action taken. In the religious beliefs suspects, this is worship him ...Likewise, the Coordinator of Muslim Lawyers Team (TPM), Achmad Michdan SH confirmed that the incidence of executions for apostasy Trio Jepara Suparno Mujahid was not an ordinary murder case.

Because the execution is in response to the actions of Islamic activists Suparno abusive ex-Muslim provocation Muslims arbitrarily. Therefore, this case can not be applied Article Murder Plan. "This is not an ordinary murder, because it is very real beginning of hatred against other religious provocation by the victim by discrediting and vilifying other religions," he said.

Michdan reminded, in the eyes of the law, religious provocation that has legal consequences. In Islamic law, sanctions against those who mock God and the Prophet is death, and the implementation is assessed worship.

"Religious beliefs that are taught in such a way, and that religious harassment have legal consequences," he explained. "This case is really an insult and abuse cases, and in the religious affiliation of the defendants that justify such action taken. In the religious beliefs suspects, this is worship him, "he said. [A Jundullah ahmad]

if Crypto dare to say in the real world, what he says here, I can imagine what he will encounter next.
and, in some cases, the apostasy chose to pretending of being a muslim.

 

[Crypto]

So you are telling us she was the one responsible for ambushing and killing nine Muslims.

Any sensible person would have tried to stop the advance of Muhammad's hordes. I am not justifying the use of violence against Islam, I am just saying that it is understandable if she, being a pagan, decided to employ violence in order to defend herself and her tribe. You'll probably tell me that Muhammad wasn't attacking her. The truth is that Muhammad was a cruel warlord who menaced everyone. As you probably know, Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman. Once, he realized that he had been poisoned, he asked the Jewish woman why she had done it. Here's the account of what happened:

"[FONT=&quot]The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The apostle of Allah lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say, "I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaibar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein." ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Ibn Sa'd pages 251, 252)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Verily a Jewish woman presented poisoned (meat of) a she goat to the apostle of Allah. He took a piece form it, put it into his mouth, chewed it and threw it away. Then he said to the Companions: "Halt! Verily, its leg tells me that it is poisoned." Then he sent for the Jewish woman and asked her; "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you, and if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]([/FONT][FONT=&quot]From Ibn Sa'd pages 249)

This event is also recorded in Sahih Bukhari, although in this book the dialogue is tainted with theological nonsense which has clearly been added later in order to demonize the Jews.
[/FONT]

 

[Crypto]

Yes, you did. You said 'you.'

You can be plural or singular. I am sure you know that.

 

[Crypto]

That's what I kept reporting him to the mods for but they never responded, so I decided to confront him directly.

So, if the moderators don't follow your caprices, you attack people? Nice.

 

[WoodrowX2]

if the bombers are not greeted by 72 Virginians/houry.. that's mean, you believe they are in hell...

so, you do know that these men are in hell now?
according to what?
because they are sinners? or because they are not muslim?
for I believe, even mother Theresa was not in Islam's heaven now

That is an American Joke. Virginia is an American State. A person from Virginia is called a Virginian.

George Washington

Thomas Jefferson

Jim bowie were famous Virginians.

American humor is often difficult to understand.

 

[WoodrowX2]

and please bring up too their scripture which instructed them to do so, Woodrow

It is in none of their scriptures. there are evil people in all religions. It is the people not the scriptures.

and what is that Christian Principles?
please show me, according to Christ teaching.
Christianity is a religion, and a religion found by human being, for God Whom the Creator not create religion.
everybody who go to church and call themselves "Christian"(religion follower) doesn't mean they are "Christian"(Christ follower), the concrete example was your testimony about a Pastor and Evangelist Missionaries.

You will find quite a few Christian Americans that believe America is a Christian Nation. some even seem to believe the Constitution came from the bible.

What many call Christian Principles are exemplified in the concept of "Manifest Destiny" and the belief it was the American Responsibility to expand Westward spreading Christianity.

This dates back to the Westward Movement when the native Americans were killed and their land taken. It was called "Manifest Destiny"

The religious fervor spawned by the Second Great Awakening created another incentive for the drive west. Indeed, many settlers believed that God himself blessed the growth of the American nation. The Native Americans were considered heathens. By Christianizing the tribes, American missionaries believed they could save souls and they became among the first to cross the Mississippi River.

SOURCE

The treatment of Native Americans by the Missionaries and the believers of "Manifest Destiny" is Americas greatest shame. Entire Tribes were massacred in the Belief that God had given the land to the Christian Settlers.

My current wife and My wife before her had Grand Parents that lived through the terror of "Manifest Destiny" which laid the path for what became Fundamentalist American Christianity.

My second wire's Grandmother was a survivor of the "Trail of Tears"

[youtube]Np-TYoZE5NM[/youtube]

Up here in the Dakotas where I live many here had Granparents killed at "Wounded Knee" Although my wife is Cheyenne, it is a sister tribe of the Lakota and we are accepted by the Lakota and spend much of our time on the reservations. We did live on the Cheyenne River Reservation at one time and we still keep our horses on the Standing Rock reservation. We try to help the people on the "Pine Ridge Reservation" with food and clothing

"Wounded Knee" is still fresh in the memory of the Lakota

[youtube]PkJaYe1T8l8[/youtube]

Because of "Manifest Destiny" Life is still hard for the Lakota. Life on the reservation can be hard.

[youtube]dqhMAoOcYi8[/youtube]