No new Mosques?

[WoodrowX2]

Your religion is a false religion. What you believe about Satan and his demons is irrelevant. Sorry for saying it so bluntly, but it is the truth.

I used to say the very same things about Muslims when I was a Christian.

But, I have no concern of what you believe. As long as it is by your own choice and you are willing to accept the results, I say go for it.

I have made my choice of my own free will and happily accept what comes from it.

 

[Crypto]

I agree America is not a Theocracy, but you will find many people who believe it is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles.

I am aware the Qur'an is not arraigned in chronological order and that there are Violent Ayyat but when read in context I still can not find anyplace the Qur'an commands violence or aggression towards anyone.

The Qur'an is 114 separate revelations. There is no importance of their order. The current arraignment is for eaze of learning to memorize it.

While we can not say who is not a Muslim, Obama has done acts that would cast doubt on his being a Muslim Such as:
For a Muslim to do any of those things is sufficient to condemn a Muslim to Hellfire

Fortunately for Obama he is not a Muslim and does not know better. I believe Allaah(swt) will take that into consideration when judging him for these sins.

He was baptized in the UCC United Church of Christ, but currently claims to be an unaffiliated Christian.



SOURCE

Obama is as much of a Christian as Attila the Hun. You are wrong about naskh. Naskh is an Islamic abrogation principle according to which newer verses supersede older ones. This is extremely basic Islamic theology.

This is a key term in studying the Quran. There are some peaceful, tolerant verses in the Quran. But the violent, intolerant ones have abrogated them. The Quran itself explains what to do with conflicting verses. If two passages conflict, it says, the one written later is better than the one written earlier. The earlier passage has been abrogated by the later one.

The bad news for non-Muslims is that almost all the peaceful passages were written earlier, and the intolerant, hateful, and violent ones were written later (read more about this).

The two key abrogation passages in the Quran are these:

2:106 "Whatever of Our revelations We repeal or cause to be forgotten, We will replace them with something superior or comparable. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things? Do you not know that Allah reigns sovereign over the heavens and earth and besides Him you have no protector or helper? Would you question your messenger as Moses was questioned in his time? Those who exchange their faith for disbelief have gone astray from the right path."

16:101 "When We exchange one verse for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say, 'You are making this up.' Most of them do not understand."​

Bill Warner writes, "There are as many as 225 verses of the Koran that are altered by later verses. This is called abrogation."

An Inquiry Into Islam: What is "Abrogation" in Islam?


Do you know that your fellow Muslims will try to kill you if you ever leave Islam? How do you feel about that?

 

[Crypto]

I used to say the very same things about Muslims when I was a Christian.

But, I have no concern of what you believe. As long as it is by your own choice and you are willing to accept the results, I say go for it.

I have made my choice of my own free will and happily accept what comes from it.

What comes from it is hell. Good luck accepting that!

 

[MrLuther]

That woman was the chief of an Arab tribe. Her daughter was taken captive after her mother was dismembered. Once I read, although I can't find the source now, that before she died this old woman said that she had never seen anyone as cruel as Muhammad in her whole life, and she was one of the oldest persons in the Arabian peninsula.

Source? Please tell me that the source is more than just the part of your anatomy you sit on.

Islam is the way in which Satan is causing the spiritual death of millions.

No Christian can disagree with this. However, that's hardly relevant to what we were originally speaking about: The external, temporal consequences. And in THAT sense, and that sense alone, islam was a definite improvement upon paganism.

 

[MrLuther]

You may not know it, but Muslims do not believe in Demons.

We do believe in Djinn a life form separate from Humans and angels. They have very Human like qualities, in that they have free will and can be good or evil. the evil Djinn like evil humans are Shaitan. (Satan)

We do believe human's can be possessed by Djinn. But the Djinn are not demons.

Uhm...just what do you suspect we mean when we say "demon"? Because you have just described the angels, and the evil angels we call "demons". They can possess humans (but actual possession happens a lot less frequently than some would think...though it of course does happen), and are seperate beings from humans.
What distinguishes a djinn from an angel?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Obama is as much of a Christian as Attila the Hun. You are wrong about naskh. Naskh is an Islamic abrogation principle according to which newer verses supersede older ones. This is extremely basic Islamic theology.

This is a key term in studying the Quran. There are some peaceful, tolerant verses in the Quran. But the violent, intolerant ones have abrogated them. The Quran itself explains what to do with conflicting verses. If two passages conflict, it says, the one written later is better than the one written earlier. The earlier passage has been abrogated by the later one.

The bad news for non-Muslims is that almost all the peaceful passages were written earlier, and the intolerant, hateful, and violent ones were written later (read more about this).

The two key abrogation passages in the Quran are these:

2:106 "Whatever of Our revelations We repeal or cause to be forgotten, We will replace them with something superior or comparable. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things? Do you not know that Allah reigns sovereign over the heavens and earth and besides Him you have no protector or helper? Would you question your messenger as Moses was questioned in his time? Those who exchange their faith for disbelief have gone astray from the right path."

16:101 "When We exchange one verse for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say, 'You are making this up.' Most of them do not understand."​

Bill Warner writes, "There are as many as 225 verses of the Koran that are altered by later verses. This is called abrogation."

An Inquiry Into Islam: What is "Abrogation" in Islam?


Do you know that your fellow Muslims will try to kill you if you ever leave Islam? How do you feel about that?

Sorry I had not addressed the issue of Abrogation I was pointing out that it is not important for the Qur'an to be in Chronological order.

On a personal note I do not see the abrogations any different from the way the NT abrogated the OT

I know quite a few Muslims who left Islam. Some I converted to Christianity my self. No body has killed a single one of them.and they are living in places like Iran, Iraq and Saudi.

Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for apostasy in the past 20 years?

 

[Crypto]

Source? Please tell me that the source is more than just the part of your anatomy you sit on.



No Christian can disagree with this. However, that's hardly relevant to what we were originally speaking about: The external, temporal consequences. And in THAT sense, and that sense alone, islam was a definite improvement upon paganism.

Learn to address people properly and I'll give you the source.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Abrogation was supposed to have applied to previous scriptures and their teachings. You can tell by the context of the Quranic verse that mentions it. There is no reason to assume it applied to any of the verses of the Quran itself. There were a few commenters who went that route because they had trouble reconciling certain Quranic statements but that method of interpretation is hardly universal or embraced by all Muslims. Many Muslims across the gamut from traditional conservative to liberal reject that way of looking at abrogation. It was basically just saying a person no longer has to keep the sabbath ( to use an example) because the command in the Torah is abrogated and replaced by the Quranic teachings.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Uhm...just what do you suspect we mean when we say "demon"? Because you have just described the angels, and the evil angels we call "demons". They can possess humans (but actual possession happens a lot less frequently than some would think...though it of course does happen), and are seperate beings from humans.
What distinguishes a djinn from an angel?

Good Questions.

We do not believe Angels are capable of evil. they are created as pure Goodness with full obedience to God(swt). We do not believe they could fall and become demons. They are also immortal and do not procreate.

The Djinn are more similar to humans. they can choose to do evil. they are mortal, are born, live, have families die and will face the Judgment day.

We do not believe Iblis (Satan, Luciver, Devil) was an angel as he choose to disobey God(swt) and did sin. He was a Shaitan a Sapient being with free will that chose evil. A shaitan can be a Djinn or a Human. Since the only humans were Adam and Eve and an Angel can not be a Shaitan, that means Iblis was a Djinn.

We do not believe the shaitan have any power over humans, except what a human allows them to have. They do their dirty work through was-was (Whispers of temptation)

However, if a Human makes the error of Worshiping a Djinn it is possible for the Djinn to posses them and use the Human body for evil.

 

[Crypto]

Sorry I had not addressed the issue of Abrogation I was pointing out that it is not important for the Qur'an to be in Chronological order.

On a personal note I do not see the abrogations any different from the way the NT abrogated the OT

I know quite a few Muslims who left Islam. Some I converted to Christianity my self. No body has killed a single one of them.and they are living in places like Iran, Iraq and Saudi.

Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for apostasy in the past 20 years?

The NT has not abrogated the OT. Look at what Jesus said:

"“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

The NT has just revealed the OT in a new way, exposing truths that were hidden from the creation of the world:

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 13:34-36)


Moreover, the NT is the fulfillment of many of the prophecies contained in the OT.


Lots of Muslims have been killed for apostasy.


Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)


Abd-Allah ibn Masood said : The Messenger of Allah said : “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases : a soul (in case of murder) ; a married person who commits adultery ; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of Muslims.” Sahih Al Bukhary number 6484 and Sahih Muslim number 1676


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedrfexMYrU

 

[WoodrowX2]

The NT has not abrogated the OT. Look at what Jesus said:

"“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

The NT has just revealed the OT in a new way, exposing truths that were hidden from the creation of the world:

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 13:34-36)


Moreover, the NT is the fulfillment of many of the prophecies contained in the OT.


Lots of Muslims have been killed for apostasy.


Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)


Abd-Allah ibn Masood said : The Messenger of Allah said : “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases : a soul (in case of murder) ; a married person who commits adultery ; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of Muslims.” Sahih Al Bukhary number 6484 and Sahih Muslim number 1676


Ex-Muslims Testify on Islamic Intolerance in America: Apostates Denounce Islam, CAIR Council - YouTube

Shoebat has been shown to be a fraud numerous times. He has been exposed by several News groups.

Rapid City, South Dakota (CNN) -- Walid Shoebat had a blunt message for the roughly 300 South Dakota police officers and sheriff's deputies who gathered to hear him warn about the dangers of Islamic radicalism.

It's a message Shoebat is selling based on his own background as a Palestinian-American convert to conservative Christianity. Born in the West Bank, the son of an American mother, he says he was a Palestinian Liberation Organization terrorist in his youth who helped firebomb an Israeli bank in Bethlehem and spent time in an Israeli jail.

But CNN reporters in the United States, Israel and the Palestinian territories found no evidence that would support that biography. Neither Shoebat nor his business partner provided any proof of Shoebat's involvement in terrorism, despite repeated requests.

Back in his hometown of Beit Sahour, outside Bethlehem, relatives say they can't understand how Shoebat could turn so roundly on his family and his faith.



"I have never heard anything about Walid being a mujahedeen or a terrorist," said Daood Shoebat, who says he is Walid Shoebat's fourth cousin. "He claims this for his own personal reasons."


CNN's Jerusalem bureau went to great lengths trying to verify Shoebat's story. The Tel Aviv headquarters of Bank Leumi had no record of a firebombing at its now-demolished Bethlehem branch. Israeli police had no record of the bombing, and the prison where Shoebat says he was held "for a few weeks" for inciting anti-Israel demonstrations says it has no record of him being incarcerated there either.

SOURCE

 

[WoodrowX2]

Lots of Muslims have been killed for apostasy.


Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)


Abd-Allah ibn Masood said : The Messenger of Allah said : “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases : a soul (in case of murder) ; a married person who commits adultery ; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of Muslims.” Sahih Al Bukhary number 6484 and Sahih Muslim number 1676

The question still stands. Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for Apostasy in the past 20 years?

I can not find any names even on Anti-Islam sites.

I lived in Islamic Nations as a Christian Missionary and never heard of any one being killed for apostasy.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I should mention the Iranian Pastor mentioned in the video is an Apostate and is in Jail. but he is charged with Rape not apostasy.

Washington (CNN) -- Christian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani will be put to death for several charges of rape and extortion, charges that differ greatly from his original sentence of apostasy, Iran's semi-official Fars News agency reported Friday.
Gholomali Rezvani, the deputy governor of Gilan province, where Nadarkhani was tried and convicted, accused Western media of twisting the real story, referring to him as a "rapist." A previous report from the news agency claimed he had committed several violent crimes, including repeated rape and extortion.
"His crime is not, as some claim, converting others to Christianity," Rezvani told Fars. "He is guilty of security-related crimes."

SOURCE

 

[smaneck]

The question still stands. Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for Apostasy in the past 20 years?

There have been Baha'is killed for apostasy although they were never Muslims to begin with.

 

[smaneck]

I never said Woodrow killed people.

Yes, you did. You said 'you.'

 

[smaneck]

What's the context? Who was this old woman, and what had she done?

I don't know about the old lady specifically, but I do know that the raid was made on this tribe in retaliation for their having ambushed a group of Muslims killing 9 of them.

 

[smaneck]

Thanks, brother. I reported her because she keeps making personal remarks. It is not my style to report people, but she was behaving in an excessively uncivilized manner.

I had reported you several times before I starting making any personal remarks. It was only when my appeals to the moderator were ignored that I began to respond to you this way.

 

[smaneck]

At least the sexual fantasy comment was based on your actual post that constantly references kissing goddesses private parts.

That's what I kept reporting him to the mods for but they never responded, so I decided to confront him directly.

 

[WoodrowX2]

There have been Baha'is killed for apostasy although they were never Muslims to begin with.

That is true. but, they were murdered and not tried in any court that I am aware of.

I hope you do not think that was sanctioned by anything in the Qur'an

 

[smaneck]

Are you also angry because I said that your stone is a pagan idol and your prophet a child molester? You can't deny what's evident.

Except he's not a Muslim. So once again, Proverbs 10:18 comes into play.