No new Mosques?

[smaneck]

There is no Ordained clergy or a priesthood in Islam. Iran differs from Sunni in this respect. As Iran does have a very powerful Priesthood and Clergy.

It is not technically a priesthood even in Iran. A priest performs rituals, sacrifices and serves as mediators between God and the laity. There is no such thing in Islam whether Sunni or Shi'ite. However, the 'ulama in Shi'ism have an extraordinary amount of power for two reasons:

1. Shi'ites believe that the 'gate of interpretation' is still open, but it is open only for the 'ulama who alone can make authoritative interpretations of Islamic law. The 'ulama who are authorized to make such interpretations are called mujtahids. Lay believers may decide for themselves which mujtahid's rulings to follow, but they must pick one. A mujtahid with a sufficient following is known as a Ayatollah. More recently the concept of a marja taqlid has emerged. This is an Ayatollah whose rulings are followed by the consensus of other Ayatollahs. This is the position Khomeini held as well as the current Supreme Leader.

2. The second element is the power given to clerics in secular matters. Towards the end of the Safavid period in the eighteen century the concept developed that in the absence of the Hidden Imam the 'ulama had the right to act on the Imam's behalf and that ultimate political power should therefore be in their hands. For the next two centuries this remained a minority opinion within Shi'ism, most Shi'ites correctly believing that in the absence of the Mahdi, there was simply no just government. During the Constitutional Revolution in Iran (1909) they even argued that democracy would be the least unjust and therefore was preferrable. However, Khomeini succeeded in making the minority opinion regarding the 'ulama's right to rule the position of the majority. The result is what we see in Iran today.

Incidentally, the background behind the Baha'i insistence on the independent investigation of truth is to prevent the mujtahid/taqlid relationship between clerics and laity found in Shi'ite Islam.

warmest, Susan

 

[WoodrowX2]

It is not technically a priesthood even in Iran. A priest performs rituals, sacrifices and serves as mediators between God and the laity. There is no such thing in Islam whether Sunni or Shi'ite. However, the 'ulama in Shi'ism have an extraordinary amount of power for two reasons:

1. Shi'ites believe that the 'gate of interpretation' is still open, but it is open only for the 'ulama who alone can make authoritative interpretations of Islamic law. The 'ulama who are authorized to make such interpretations are called mujtahids. Lay believers may decide for themselves which mujtahid's rulings to follow, but they must pick one. A mujtahid with a sufficient following is known as a Ayatollah. More recently the concept of a marja taqlid has emerged. This is an Ayatollah whose rulings are followed by the consensus of other Ayatollahs. This is the position Khomeini held as well as the current Supreme Leader.

2. The second element is the power given to clerics in secular matters. Towards the end of the Safavid period in the eighteen century the concept developed that in the absence of the Hidden Imam the 'ulama had the right to act on the Imam's behalf and that ultimate political power should therefore be in their hands. For the next two centuries this remained a minority opinion within Shi'ism, most Shi'ites correctly believing that in the absence of the Mahdi, there was simply no just government. During the Constitutional Revolution in Iran (1909) they even argued that democracy would be the least unjust and therefore was preferrable. However, Khomeini succeeded in making the minority opinion regarding the 'ulama's right to rule the position of the majority. The result is what we see in Iran today.

Incidentally, the background behind the Baha'i insistence on the independent investigation of truth is to prevent the mujtahid/taqlid relationship between clerics and laity found in Shi'ite Islam.

warmest, Susan

Thank You for the Clarification Susan.

 

[Crypto]

If true, that is... completely disgusting. For anyone wondering why I don't advocate the UK becoming a Christian theocracy, just take a look at the nutters in Iran and what happens to people under such a theocracy.

Did Jesus have sex with a nine-year-old girl? Islam is nothing like Christianity. I don't support Christian theocracies, though, neither did Jesus.

 

[Crypto]

You don't get it, do you?

Any narration from Aisha is not considered reliable to Shi'ites because they consider her narrations to be self-serving. Shi'ites have their own hadith collections and don't use al-Bukhari. So to adduce as evidence hadiths which they don't accept does you no good whatsoever.

Secondly, I am not a Shi'ite, I am a Baha'i. However, the Baha'i Faith as the same relationship to Shi'ite Islam that Christianity has to Judaism.

Third, as a historian I don't regard any hadith collection as all that reliable. They were all compiled centuries after the Prophet.



Wrong, it simply acknowledges that a woman may not have her menses and there are lots of possible causes of that such as menopause.

Wrong. Women that are too old to have menses are alluded to in another part of the same verse. The Qur'an says that women who haven't had sex with their ex-husbands can re-marry immediately after the divorce:

O ye who believe! If ye wed believing women and divorce them before ye have touched them, then there is no period that ye should reckon. But content them and release them handsomely. (Qur'an 33:49)

However, if a woman has had sex with her ex-husband, she must wait for a while before getting married again:

Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy. (Qur'an 65:4)

Traditionally the "women who have no courses" passage was understood to be an allusion to girls that had not reached puberty yet:



"Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible." (Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, Tafhim al-Qur'an)

Commentary on Qur'an Chapter 65:4



Surah al-Talaaq 65:4: If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise. (Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, Majmoo’at As’ilah tahumm al-Usrah al-Muslimah, p. 61-63)




"The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses (Qur'an 65:4)

 

[smaneck]

Wrong. Women that are too old to have menses are alluded to in another part of the same verse.

Fine but the fact that some women don't have menses does not mean they have not reached puberty. The fact that Mawdudi can be as perverse as you proves nothing.

 

[Crypto]

Fine but the fact that some women don't have menses does not mean they have not reached puberty. The fact that Mawdudi can be as perverse as you proves nothing.

I don't approve of pedophilia. Islamic scholars do. By the way, it is not only Maududi, but also many other famous scholars. Haven't you read what I posted? I am sure I can find other quotes from famous Islamic scholars explaining how having sex with girls that haven't reach puberty is permissible.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I don't approve of pedophilia. Islamic scholars do. By the way, it is not only Maududi, but also many other famous scholars. Haven't you read what I posted? I am sure I can find other quotes from famous Islamic scholars explaining how having sex with girls that haven't reach puberty is permissible.

and, what is a Scholar?

We are under no obligation to believe the Tafsir of any Scholar. In fact we are not to believe any Tafsir unless we our self have verified it to be true.

While many of us do read numerous tafsir it is more as a guide to understand and how to form our own opinions.

We are not permitted to follow any Tafsir blindly, technically no one should even give Tafsir. as we are not to give the view that we speak with an Authoritative voice. As none of us can speak for any Muslim except our self.

Every Author of a Tafsir speaks only for himself. Many probably Most are not very well accepted.


Maududi for example has been banned in many Islamic Nations'

BBC News - Bangladesh bans books written by radical Islamic author

Which is understandable. While Maududi was a radical and today his books are often used to justify terrorism there is no indication he personally advocated Terrorism

He does seem to have become a favorite of the Anti-Islamic sites who seem to use him as the "Authority on Islam"

What I find sad is that along with his radical commentaries, his excellent Histories are also being banned.

 

[Crypto]

and, what is a Scholar?

We are under no obligation to believe the Tafsir of any Scholar. In fact we are not to believe any Tafsir unless we our self have verified it to be true.

While many of us do read numerous tafsir it is more as a guide to understand and how to form our own opinions.

We are not permitted to follow any Tafsir blindly, technically no one should even give Tafsir. as we are not to give the view that we speak with an Authoritative voice. As none of us can speak for any Muslim except our self.

Every Author of a Tafsir speaks only for himself. Many probably Most are not very well accepted.


Maududi for example has been banned in many Islamic Nations'

BBC News - Bangladesh bans books written by radical Islamic author

Which is understandable. While Maududi was a radical and today his books are often used to justify terrorism there is no indication he personally advocated Terrorism

He does seem to have become a favorite of the Anti-Islamic sites who seem to use him as the "Authority on Islam"

What I find sad is that along with his radical commentaries, his excellent Histories are also being banned.

Maududi urged Muslims to assert themselves over non-Muslims because non-Muslims, he said, have:

“absolutely no right to seize the reins of power in any part of God’s earth nor to direct the collective affairs of human beings according to their own misconceived doctrines.”
​

Because if they do:

“the believers would be under an obligation to do their utmost to dislodge them from political power and to make them live in subservience to the Islamic way of life.”




​

It is wrong to ban the good, the bad and Maududi

Bangladesh banned Maududi's writings because Maududi's political party was performing terrorist attacks in Bangladesh. Maududi, as most hardcore Muslims, believed that secular governments, like the one of Bangladesh, should cease to exist, especially in predominantly Muslim nations, like Bangladesh.

What a hypocrite you are. You say that Maududi is not mainstream Islam, when in fact his commentaries to the Qur'an are among the most popular in the Islamic world, and can be found in "moderate" Islamic websites as well. For example, the most popular Islamic website in the world is Islamicity. Islamicity says this about Maududi:

"Maududi's translation and commentary on the Qur'an, "The Meaning of the Qur'an", ranks as one of the best such works in existence today. Unlike many early translators, Maududi uses the standard technique of providing an explanation of the Qur'anic verses from the Sunnah of the Prophet (sas), including the historical reasons behind the verses. Below is a list of Maududi's introductions to each chapter in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, this represents a very small portion of the six volumes which comprise the complete commentary."

They are also publishing all his commentaries to the Qur'an, here:

http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/quran/maududi/

 

[Ishraqiyun]

If someone finds a video of an "Islamic scholar" that person obviously represents the views of "The Muslims". Just like if I found a video of a Fundamentalist, say Baptist for example, that would represent the views of "The Christians" including those who happen to be Methodist, Catholic, or Presbyterian. Just like Muslims all Christians are the same and agree with each other on everything. They are all one monolithic group.

 

[smaneck]

I don't approve of pedophilia.

You are certainly obsessed with vaginas and underwear. I wouldn't be surprised if you felt the same about children.

Islamic scholars do. By the way, it is not only Maududi, but also many other famous scholars.

Mawdudi was a journalist, not a scholar. There were some Muslim scholars who accepted child marriages but such marriages were not to be consummated before puberty this is clear even from the hadiths that argue for a young age for Aisha.

"We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him.” {Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234}

Why would there be any reference to Aisha's illness except to indicate she had reached puberty?

A pedophile would not wait three years to consummate a marriage.

Haven't you read what I posted?

Why should I believe anything from someone with the lack of character you have demonstrated on this list?

I am sure I can find other quotes from famous Islamic scholars explaining how having sex with girls that haven't reach puberty is permissible.

I'm sure you can find lots of Muslims who share your perversions.

 

[smaneck]

Bangladesh banned Maududi's writings because Maududi's political party was performing terrorist attacks in Bangladesh.

Not for terrorist attacks. They were accused of committing war crimes during Bangladesh's struggle for independence.

Maududi, as most hardcore Muslims, believed that secular governments, like the one of Bangladesh, should cease to exist, especially in predominantly Muslim nations, like Bangladesh.

Yes, he opposed the formation of Pakistan for that reason. Not the position his party later took.

 

[Crypto]

If someone finds a video of an "Islamic scholar" that person obviously represents the views of "The Muslims". Just like if I found a video of a Fundamentalist, say Baptist for example, that would represent the views of "The Christians" including those who happen to be Methodist, Catholic, or Presbyterian. Just like Muslims all Christians are the same and agree with each other on everything. They are all one monolithic group.

Those Islamic scholars are just interpreting what Allah said. Allah is the one who is regulating pedophilia. Does Allah not represent the real Islam?

 

[smaneck]

If someone finds a video of an "Islamic scholar" that person obviously represents the views of "The Muslims". Just like if I found a video of a Fundamentalist, say Baptist for example, that would represent the views of "The Christians"

One thing I would never do is refer to a Christian Fundamentalist as a 'scholar.' As far as I'm concerned, that is a contradiction in terms.

 

[Crypto]

You are certainly obsessed with vaginas and underwear. I wouldn't be surprised if you felt the same about children.



Mawdudi was a journalist, not a scholar. There were some Muslim scholars who accepted child marriages but such marriages were not to be consummated before puberty this is clear even from the hadiths that argue for a young age for Aisha.

"We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him.” {Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234}

Why would there be any reference to Aisha's illness except to indicate she had reached puberty?

A pedophile would not wait three years to consummate a marriage.



Why should I believe anything from someone with the lack of character you have demonstrated on this list?



I'm sure you can find lots of Muslims who share your perversions.

So, you lose your hair when you reach puberty? Is this one of those famous "scientific miracles" of the Qur'an? Maududi is an Islamic scholar. His commentaries to the Qur'an are praised by the entire Islamic community (read my post above).

Are you going to accuse me of pedophilia to defend your prophet? Can you prove your accusations? I can certainly prove that Muhammad was a pedophile. By the way, Muhammad used to molest Aisha since they got engaged (she was six years old). He just didn't penetrate her, probably because he knew that penetration would kill her.

 

[Crypto]

One thing I would never do is refer to a Christian Fundamentalist as a 'scholar.' That is a contradiction in terms.

Christian fundamentalist = mother Teresa of Calcutta.
Islamic fundamentalist = Osama Bin Laden.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

One thing I would never do is refer to a Christian Fundamentalist as a 'scholar.' That is a contradiction in terms.

That statement just goes to show how little you know.

Christian Scholars

 

[smaneck]

Those Islamic scholars are just interpreting what Allah said. Allah is the one who is regulating pedophilia. Does Allah not represent the real Islam?

I know this won't mesh with your narcissism, but you don't represent Allah.

 

[Supreme]

Did Jesus have sex with a nine-year-old girl? Islam is nothing like Christianity. I don't support Christian theocracies, though, neither did Jesus.

Of course He didn't. And Islam and Christianity are sister religions. We still have similar theology.

 

[Crypto]

Of course He didn't. And Islam and Christianity are sister religions. We still have similar theology.

No, bro. Study their books. They are the opposite of Christianity. Moreover, Muhammad was possessed by a demon and there are tons of evidence for that in the books they call the hadith.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Of course He didn't. And Islam and Christianity are sister religions. We still have similar theology.

That isn't accurate at all.
There is no Baptism in Islam. In Islam salvation is by works and by faith in Allah. To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward. (5:9)

And of course the most obvious proof they are not similar is that Islam does not believe Jesus was the son of God and the one and only savior.