Folks, I'm gonna be blunt and to the point.
Here is a list of existing New Testament Papyri:
List of New Testament papyri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Of the Papyri listed, only two contain anything of the Gospel of Mark; p45 and p88. One dates to around AD 250, the other AD 350. The p45 contains Mark chapters 4-9, 11-12; and the other Mark chapter 2.
Of the surviving Codexes (complete New Testaments), Sinaiticus and Vaticanus (circa 4th century) they only contain through Mark 16:8.
One other thing I learned while taking Greek, is that the rules for Greek are the same as in English. Both languages are heavy in grammer.
In the Greek text, the Greek word "kai" is used between believe and baptized.
"Kai" is a conjunnction meaning "and", and the definition for a conjunction is: "words that connect words, phrases or clauses together".
According to Mark 16:16, the one who believes
and is baptized is saved.
"Kai" in between bel;ieve and baptized links these two things together.
In math, the equasion would look like: 1+2=3
According to Mark 16:16: belief
plus baptism
equals salvation.
The "authenicity" of the last 12 verses of Mark 16 remains in doubt and stand in contrst to what is taught in the other gospels.
Johnny Cochran said in court:
Mark 16:16 is not in harmony with the Gospel of Mark itself and it is not in harmony with the other Gospels, therefore it is in doubt.
The doctrine of baptism as a sign of death, burial, and resurrection with Jesus was not developed until around the late AD 60's accordiong to Paul.
Even the very best guess at when the Gospel of Mark was written only dates to around the AD 60's. DId John Mark borrow from Paul when the last twelve verses were penned?
There is no evidence of that as Mark shows no signs of Pauline theology,
So, even though one person here vehemently disagrees with me, the evidence, papyri and codexes, along with the rules of Greek grammer are in my favor.
According to the rules of Greek grammer, belief and baptism equals saved. That is the message of Mark 16:16.
And by all the rules of grammer, most especially Greek grammer, I am right, and
nothing can change that.
God Bless
Till all are one.
DeacanDean,
The only conclusion that can be drawn from your last statement:
And by all the rules of grammer, most especially Greek grammer, I am right, and[bless and do not curse]nothing[bless and do not curse]can change that.
is that you believe yourself to know more than the following men about the Greek language:
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The following excerpts were taken from the above site:
Dr. Lancelot Andrews was selected to work on the Old Testament at Westminster, and worked on twelve books, Genesis to 2 Kings. Dr. Andrews spoke almost all of the languages spoken in Europe in the seventeenth century. He majored in language at Cambridge University, especially studying the Oriental tongues. Dr. Andrews is said to have been completely fluent in fifteen languages, and had his private devotions in the Greek New Testament, and kept a journal of his devotions written entirely in Greek.
Dr. Henry Savile was selected to work with the group that was to translate the New Testament at Oxford. He was chosen to translate the Gospels, the Book of Acts, and the Revelation. Dr. Savile was said to be as great a mathematician as he was a Greek scholar. He was chosen to tutor Queen Elizabeth in both mathematics and Greek. Dr. Savile was not only famous for his translation of the great history of Tacitus from Latin into English, but also translated the mathematical work of Euclid on geometry from Greek into English. However, Dr. Savile was most famous for his editing and translating of the complete works of John Chrysostom, one of the most famous of the early Greek church fathers, from the Greek into English. This was a work similar in size to eight very large dictionaries!
Dr. John Bois was a New Testament translator at Cambridge. At the age of five he had read the entire Bible in Hebrew. At the age of six he could write the Hebrew language in "a fair and elegant" hand. He was equally skilled in Greek. He was one of the twelve, two from each committee, who were sent to make the final revision at Stationer's Hall in London. On top of all of his other duties, he was the secretary for the final revision committee, taking notes on all of the meetings. It is largely through his notes that we have knowledge of the inner workings of the committee in this day and age.
Richard Bancroftâs Rules for translating the King James Bible (1604)
The following excerpt was taken form the above site:
RICHARD BANCROFTS RULES TO BE OBSERVED IN THE TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE.
1. The ordinary Bible read in the church, commonly called the Bishops Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the truth of the original will permit.
2. The names of the prophets, and the holy writers, with the other names in the text, to be retained as near as may be, accordingly as they are vulgarly used.
3. The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, namely, as the word church not to be translated congregation &c.
4. When any word hath divers significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most eminent Fathers, being agreeable to the propriety of the place, and the analogy of faith.
5. The division of the chapters to be altered either not at all, or as little as may be, if necessity so require.
6. No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot without some circumlocution so briefly and fitly be expressed in the text.
7. Such quotations of places to be marginally set down, as shall serve for the fit reference of one Scripture to another.
8. Every particular man of each company to take the same chapter or chapters; and having translated or amended them severally by himself, where he thinks good, all to meet together, confer what they have done, and agree for their part what shall stand.
9. As any one company hath dispatched any one book in this manner, they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously; for his Majesty is very careful in this point.
10. If any company, upon the review of the book so sent, shall doubt or differ upon any places, to send them word thereof, note the places, and therewithal send their reasons; to which if they consent not, the difference to be compounded at the general meeting, which is to be of the chief persons of each company, at the end of the work.
11. When any place of special obscurity is doubted of, letters to be directed by authority, to send to any learned man in the land for his judgment in such a place.
12. Letters to be sent from every Bishop to the rest of his clergy, admonishing them of this Translation in hand; and to move and charge as many as, being skilful in the tongues, have taken pains in that kind, to send his particular observations to the company, either at Westminster, Cambridge, or Oxford.
13. The directors in each company to be the Deans of Westminster and Chester, for that place; and the Kings Professors in the Hebrew and Greek in either University.
14. These translations to be used, when they agree better with the text than the Bishops Bible:
Tyndales,
Matthews,
Coverdales,
Whitchurchs [Great],
Geneva.
15. Besides the said directions before mentioned, three or four of the most ancient and grave divines in either of the Universities, not employed in translating, to be assigned by the Vice-Chancellor, upon conference with the rest of the Heads, to be overseers of the Translations, as well Hebrew as Greek, for the better observation of the fourth rule above specified.
Dr Thomas Cassidy makes the following remarks in light of rules #8 10 above:
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The following excerpt is from the above site:
Team Effort. Each translator had to translate all of the books assigned to his group by himself, then all of the translators from the group would meet together to discuss which of the translations was best. After all of the committee, working together, had decided which translation was the best, a copy of the translation of the book would be sent to one of the other cities where another committee was working, and they would meet and review the other committees' translation, while the first committee was reviewing the second committee's translation. This process would continue until all six committees had reviewed every book that had been translated. Then the book would be reviewed again by the committee of twelve, two from each of the six committees. If they found any problems, they would send word to the committee responsible for the translation, and their reasons for translating the problem passage in that way would be reviewed. In the end, all of the people on all of the committees would have to be in total agreement before the translation was considered to be complete, and they would go on to the next book! Such a painstaking team effort is unheard of today, which probably explains why there is so much disagreement as to the proper translation of the Bible today. There is almost a "Bible of the Month" club, bringing out some "new," "better," and "easier" version before the last one has had a chance to be read.
Are you more knowledgeable than these men?
And by all the rules of grammer, most especially Greek grammer, I am right, and[bless and do not curse]nothing[bless and do not curse]can change that.
This kind of statement makes me wonder if God is in Heaven saying, Why in the world did I choose those stupid men to translate the King James Bible, IF I had only waited until 2013, I could have had DeaconDean translate the Greek into English (having then the DeaconDean Version [DDV]), and then English speaking people would have a 'perfect' translation, because he is right, and nothing can change that.
Jack
