Strong Evidence for the Peleg state change

[AV1611VET]

Yes, I do. He claims that the 13 billion years of history that we see in this universe all happened during the 2,000 years between creation and the flood, during which time physical laws were (hence a different state past). That is not even remotely close to the universe being created 6,000 years ago with 13 billion years of age (or maturity) embedded in it (hence embedded age).

Different state past has nothing to do with creationism.

You are confusing Embedded Age creationism with how the universe immediately operated hence.

 

[CabVet]

Different state past has nothing to do with creationism.

Different state past is an attempt to reconcile fact and observation with the narrative in Genesis, just like embedded age is.

You are confusing Embedded Age creationism with how the universe immediately operated hence.

Not at all, what I am doing is pointing out the simple fact that different state past is not the same as embedded age, which is not the same as "guided evolution", which is not the same as "intelligent design", which is not the same as humans being created in another planet and sent here after the flood destroyed their native planet.

 

[AV1611VET]

Different state past is an attempt to reconcile fact and observation with the narrative in Genesis, just like embedded age is.

Embedded Age creation ended in 4004 BC, at the conclusion of Genesis 1.

Different state past started in 4004 BC and ended (in my opinion) at the Fall in Genesis 3; and in dad's opinion (I think) at the split in Genesis 10.

 

[HitchSlap]

Different state past has nothing to do with creationism.

You are confusing Embedded Age creationism with how the universe immediately operated hence.

In the sense that their both cracked pot conjectures, yes, they're the same.

 

[HitchSlap]

Embedded Age creation ended in 4004 BC, at the conclusion of Genesis 1.

Different state past started in 4004 BC and ended (in my opinion) at the Fall in Genesis 3; and in dad's opinion (I think) at the split in Genesis 10.

Nope. Not true.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope. Not true.

... You don't even know what we're talking about.

 

[Nithavela]

Personally I always liked the 'accelerating upwards' crackpot idea.

 

[AV1611VET]

Personally I always liked the 'accelerating upwards' crackpot idea.

Doesn't surprise me.

Some people like to watch rollercoasters, some like to experience rollercoasters, and some like the physics that drive rollercoasters.

Usually the ones who sit and describe rollercoasters as "something funny that goes up and down and all around" don't [care to] appreciate the physics that drives them.

 

[CabVet]

Embedded Age creation ended in 4004 BC, at the conclusion of Genesis 1.

Different state past started in 4004 BC and ended (in my opinion) at the Fall in Genesis 3; and in dad's opinion (I think) at the split in Genesis 10.

Ok, let me ask you this then, under an embedded age scenario (and by that I understand something like "creating aged wine" with all of its characteristics already present), how is it possible for us to see stars that are 13 billion years away? In other words, did Adam see the same sky as we do?

 

[CabVet]

Doesn't surprise me.

Some people like to watch rollercoasters, some like to experience rollercoasters, and some like the physics that drive rollercoasters.

Usually the ones who sit and describe rollercoasters as "something funny that goes up and down and all around" don't [care to] appreciate the physics that drives them.

And here I was thinking that physics (like all science) was of the devil...

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok, let me ask you this then, under an embedded age scenario (and by that I understand something like "creating aged wine" with all of its characteristics already present), how is it possible for us to see stars that are 13 billion years away?

Assuming you meant "light years," we can see them because they were created just outside of the earth's atmosphere, then whisked away into deep space (Doppler effect withstanding).

In other words, did Adam see the same sky as we do?

Yes.

In fact, the plan of salvation is configured in the stars.

Adam was told to name the animals (sorry, Linnaeus -- too bad), but God Himself named the stars.

Case in point:

The [corrupt] Greek language recognizes Gemini as twins; but the Hebrews knew Gemini as one and the same Person:

King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Here's my favorite:

When the sun went dark over the Cross for three hours, if you looked up into the sky, you would see Aries, the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

(Not Aries the Ram.)

 

[AV1611VET]

And here I was thinking that physics (like all science) was of the devil...

That figures.

You guys like to ridicule what others believe, then later end up with the wrong impression of what they said.

 

[dad]

Ok, let me ask you this then, under an embedded age scenario (and by that I understand something like "creating aged wine" with all of its characteristics already present), how is it possible for us to see stars that are 13 billion years away? In other words, did Adam see the same sky as we do?

The stars are not billions of years away in actual fact. That imposition of age on distance is solely a belief that time exists in deep space. Not only exists, but runs on earth clock time!

Fact is we don't know time exists out there far away now do we? That means any association with time (millions or billions of years) is not based on anything known.

 

[dad]

Personally I always liked the 'accelerating upwards' crackpot idea.

So you believe in the Rapture. Excellent.

 

[dad]

Are you actually suggesting that the laws of the universe were different in the past? And somehow these different laws altered gravity?

Yes! How will the world be different in the future? God. He controls stuff. Apparently the stuff long ago was quite different from today! That makes claims of science based on a belief of this present state being the key to the past religious twaddle stuff.

Break free and live people. God is real after all.

 

[dad]

You don't have a clue as to what dad means by a different state past, do you?

My favorite example is:

Was there a time on earth when man & animals couldn't die?

My opinion is that there was, before the fall.

 

[CabVet]

Assuming you meant "light years," we can see them because they were created just outside of the earth's atmosphere, then whisked away into deep space (Doppler effect withstanding).

"Whisked away" at what speed?

Yes.

Ok then. What about the Grand Canyon? Was it created during creation week, between creation and the flood or after the flood? What about fossils? Did the all go extinct at the same time because of the flood?

 

[CabVet]

The stars are not billions of years away in actual fact. That imposition of age on distance is solely a belief that time exists in deep space. Not only exists, but runs on earth clock time!

Hmmm, let's see. A car moves at 60 miles per hour. It leaves an unknown point and reaches me 60 minutes later. So, what you are saying is that I cannot conclude that the car started it's travel 60 miles away from me, because I don't know if time exists in the places where I cannot see the car. Good. I have a good one for you:

A tree drops in the forest, if there is nobody there to hear it, did it make a sound?

Fact is we don't know time exists out there far away now do we? That means any association with time (millions or billions of years) is not based on anything known.

Fantasy is, you think time is different (or doesn't exist) elsewhere. There is nothing to contradict the assumption that time (along with all of the other physical constants) are different anywhere else in the universe.

 

[dad]

Hmmm, let's see. A car moves at 60 miles per hour. It leaves an unknown point and reaches me 60 minutes later. So, what you are saying is that I cannot conclude that the car started it's travel 60 miles away from me, because I don't know if time exists in the places where I cannot see the car.

If a car moves up into space, the clock on the car is at a different time! We know that much. Now why on earth would we assume time existed as on this earth way out where you have no clue whether it even exists at all or not?? Don't try to impose fishbowl time!!

Good. I have a good one for you:

A tree drops in the forest, if there is nobody there to hear it, did it make a sound?

The issue is whether all laws God set up only exist in your mind. No. His laws exist outside your limits also, and whether you experience observations of that is of NO matter.

Fantasy is, you think time is different (or doesn't exist) elsewhere.

I simply admit we do not know. Your distances are a belief that space and time in the star zone exist exactly as they do near earth. That is worthless.

There is nothing to contradict the assumption that time (along with all of the other physical constants) are different anywhere else in the universe.

Great, then science is of no value when they seek to impose their particular belief that time is the same! Thanks for that.

 

[AV1611VET]

My opinion is that there was, before the fall.

Yup.