The Lord's day.

[By Faith Alone]

That is interesting. Still, though, I am rather puzzled as to why you originally chose the phrase "Holy Spirit=Scriptures."

What did you mean by "not any manifestation of Deity as some assume?"

Forget it.

 

[Elder 111]

Look dude I don't give a rip snort what someone says that doesn't match up with the historical record. I'm not RC either. Now tell me why I should care what they say. It doesn't affect my salvation. I'm not forsaking grace for a works oriented salvation that insures failure also goes by the name death in this instance. I like life and am very sorry you don't seem to.

Sorry I just did not know that Sabbath obedience meant dead. I tell you it is hard for me to comprehend. How can doing something that God himself asked for/required be death? Even if you contend that it is "old'. Since when can anything of God be death?
The God of life, creator, redeemer, the one that gave the ten commandments written by His own hand; gave death to the children He loved? The same one that died for them?

 

[Elder 111]

That doesn't matter. The fact is - is was replaced.

The reason matters, and the fact is that the bible never said that the change was because something was wrong with the law, never.

 

[rstrats]

Setyoufree,

re: "Okay, then everyday is special...."

For some things perhaps, but is everyday special with regard to not doing any work?

 

[Setyoufree]

Setyoufree,

re: "Okay, then everyday is special...."

For some things perhaps, but is everyday special with regard to not doing any work?

The only place I can find a command (if you will) not to work is in Heb chapter 4.

"So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."

 

[Tzaousios]

Forget it.

So now you have returned to the same attitude that you had before? I was under the impression that this is a discussion forum and we were going to discuss what you said.

 

[from scratch]

Sorry I just did not know that Sabbath obedience meant dead. I tell you it is hard for me to comprehend. How can doing something that God himself asked for/required be death? Even if you contend that it is "old'. Since when can anything of God be death?
The God of life, creator, redeemer, the one that gave the ten commandments written by His own hand; gave death to the children He loved? The same one that died for them?

What you're doing is the same as requiring one to observe the law of Germany when one is a US citizen residing in the USA. One could not be obligated to something that has no jurisdiction. You're making the same mistake as some others here. It isn't the Sabbath I'm opposed to. You're trying to drag me and others away from the New Covenant to the Old Covenant. The Sabbath isn't part and parcel to the New Covenant and neither is the rest of the law per Jeremiah and Jesus Christ.

My response to your last paragraph is Rom 11:32 which would mean yes that's exactly correct.

 

[from scratch]

The reason matters, and the fact is that the bible never said that the change was because something was wrong with the law, never.

The change would only matter if it was man making the covenants. God is sovereign and does as He wishes. If you don't wish to accept the truth, it simply isn't my problem.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Elder 111:

I was hoping you would answer post 371. If you do not it is ok. You are not obligated to answer anyone in the forums just as I am not obligated to answer others. I will not press you for an answer and I will not read anything into it if you do not. Things are not always what they seem to be.
Thank you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Since discovering the definition of a word or a phrase is a matter of lexicography and history the biblical evidence for the Lord's day being Sunday must of necessity be twofold:

• Is the phrase used in the bible - yes, it is used The Apocalypse 1:10.
• What does the phrase mean - "John writes that he was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day. This is the only place in the New Testament where this day is so described, for elsewhere it is referred to as the first day of the week. It is the day of the Lord's resurrection, and by the end of the first century Christians had begun to refer to it not as the first day of the week but as the Lord's Day (compare the expression the Lord's Supper, 1Cor 11:20). It is the day that is devoted to the Lord. The text refers not to the eventual return of the Lord and the Day of Judgment but to Jesus' appearing to John on the first day of the week—a day consecrated to Christ."

Quoting early Church authors would add to the evidence for how the phrase is used in the Greek spoken and written by Christians in the first, second, and subsequent centuries AD. If you are curious to know what these early Christian writers had to say on the matter check it out on google.

God be with you all.

 

[Setyoufree]

The Sabbath isn't part and parcel to the New Covenant and neither is the rest of the law per Jeremiah and Jesus Christ.

Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/10.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-bhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/10.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-27 17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/10.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-chttp://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/10.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-28 18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

What laws does Christ put in our mind & heart?

 

[By Faith Alone]

1722 // en // en // en //
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time
or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or
constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between
1519 and 1537 ); TDNT - 2:537,233; prep
AV - in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62,
through 39, misc 265; 2801
1) in, by, with etc.

IN...the Lord's day and not....ON...the Lord's day

He was...IN...the Spirit...IN..the Lord's day.

 

[Elder 111]

What you're doing is the same as requiring one to observe the law of Germany when one is a US citizen residing in the USA. One could not be obligated to something that has no jurisdiction. You're making the same mistake as some others here. It isn't the Sabbath I'm opposed to. You're trying to drag me and others away from the New Covenant to the Old Covenant. The Sabbath isn't part and parcel to the New Covenant and neither is the rest of the law per Jeremiah and Jesus Christ.

My response to your last paragraph is Rom 11:32 which would mean yes that's exactly correct.

In response to the question of jurisdiction, old or new we are all under the requirements of God. The point that I am making in terms of the Law, as in Jeremiah, is that the law was not the item that was being changed and the new covenant did not say that the law was removed but written on the heart.
Taking your last point into consideration, the death came because of breaking the law. Are we not now also subject to death? And is not that death also because of violating/breaking the law?

 

[By Faith Alone]

In response to the question of jurisdiction, old or new we are all under the requirements of God. The point that I am making in terms of the Law, as in Jeremiah, is that the law was not the item that was being changed and the new covenant did not say that the law was removed but written on the heart.
Taking your last point into consideration, the death came because of breaking the law. Are we not now also subject to death? And is not that death also because of violating/breaking the law?

ALL..that are in Adam are subject to death by reason of the fall. The ones under the LAW were subject to death by early demise by stoning. The Ten Commandments surely cannot be separated from the ENTIRE law. No cherry-picking allowed. When playing poker one does not get to choose as they wish. You take the hand dealt to you.

YOU...dear friend are NOT a Hebrew. If somebody misses a Saturday meeting then you best have a pile of bloody stones ready.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Elder 111. You are under no obligation to answer post #371 nor this one. It is up to you. Please answer directly with Scriptures that do not contradict here:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Elder 111]

The change would only matter if it was man making the covenants. God is sovereign and does as He wishes. If you don't wish to accept the truth, it simply isn't my problem.

God does not change and we will still be judged by the law.
"I am the Lord I change not".
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty
Jesus does a better job of it than I.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[By Faith Alone]

God does not change and we will still be judged by the law.
"I am the Lord I change not".
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty
Jesus does a better job of it than I.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Your presentation is a non-starter. The Lord's attributes do not change. His direction in His purpose for the ages do not change...:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

BUT...His ways of dealing with mankind does over the ages.
James 1:17 is directed to us to say there is no shadow of turning. If you are to use that as defense then be as George of the Jungle..."WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREE!!" (in the garden"). Be prepared to build an Ark. Be prepared to sell all you have and give it to the poor. Speak in tongues. Raise the dead. Heal without failing.

The reference to the Kingdom of Heaven is directed as His rule over Israel in the land as....KING.

Matt 15:24...I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[By Faith Alone]

In Paul's Spirit inspired presentation in 2 Corinthians he is devoted to warning us about taking that which belongs to another dispensation and applying to us that which does not belong.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

That is not referring to the unsaved. It is referring to the old covenant that had been abolished. The god of this age..(SATAN) has handled the Word of God in a deceitful manner and had made a vail out of the Truth that had been for a previous dispensation and had put a blindfold over the eyes of the people with the letter that killeth that they could not see the Glory of Jesus that excelleth (2 Cor 3:10).


AGAIN:
2 Peter 1:12...be established in the... present.... truth.

 

[from scratch]

Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." 17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." 18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

What laws does Christ put in our mind & heart?

They're not the Old Covenant laws. Jeremiah says so.

 

[from scratch]

1722 // en // en // en //
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time
or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or
constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between
1519 and 1537 ); TDNT - 2:537,233; prep
AV - in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62,
through 39, misc 265; 2801
1) in, by, with etc.

IN...the Lord's day and not....ON...the Lord's day

He was...IN...the Spirit...IN..the Lord's day.

No sale! the word en also means on.