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Islam:Peaceful and Tolerant?
- Thread starter Danny777
- Start date
Illuminaughty
Drift and Doubt
Someone was pointing out that they thought the term terrorism was being used one sidedely to classify crimes committed by Muslims. You blew that concern off as unimportant and thought you could go with "homicide" and still make your points. You then switched out terrorism with homocide and said Muslims were commiting all the homicides. Only problem is they aren't*. You need the term "terrorism" so you should at least take seriously a charge about the problematic nature of the term.
* They also aren't the ones doing all the terrorism either as you could see by the FBI chart I posted.
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- Jul 2, 2005
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You have to admit, sooner or later, that Islam is the prime source of terrorism this century.
You can't eradicate that by pointing out how tough you think life is for Muslims in the USA (allegedly). Or how there are legal problems in the US. Take a number sister, there's plenty in line in front of you.
Nor can you eradicate that problem by muddying the definition of terrorism, deeming it to be a mere one of opinion and subjective judgment.
This is your biggest problem and obstacle to making the world believe you are the "religion of peace", and your own leaders know it.
Rather than constantly play the victim card (which nobody buys) and whine about how the legal system is bad (I really don't care about the US or British system and how bad you imagine it is for Muslims) and bring up absolutely valueless political points how about just for once in your career on this forum give us the case, based on the life, Quranic teachings and Hadith by and about Mohammed that prove that Islam is the religion of peace, and then explain to us all why the followers of that religion have so much trouble trying to live as messengers of peace.
Then explain to me why it is impossible to discuss anything with a young Muslim in the West without them complaining about their host nations and politics.
That would make things go a lot smoother between you and I.
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- Jul 2, 2005
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I find that difficult to believe.
Because.....
...that is easily the worst attempt at Bible exegesis I have seen. Really weak.
Clearly you have no idea about:
a) The way Jewish law is interpreted, and how incredibly difficult it is to enforce capital punishment according to the Bible
and you also have no idea about,
b) How capital punishment is not endorsed by the NT, but rather that such punishments are made useless by the blood of Jesus Christ. (The civil states make their own laws)
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No, I don't since that's not true.
Regarding the rest of your post, you could not answer the previous points and are trying to change the topic again.
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EnemyOfReason
Well-Known Member
When I left Islam it was common for Muslims to say I was never a Muslim because if I was a real Muslim I would have never left.
No there is not. The Bible mentions many atrocities happening at the will of god. No law that you conjure up from the depths of the cesspool of fibs and tall tales will change this.
If there was such a way to refute this then you would be doing so........but your not.
If you did accept Judaic laws then you would not be a Christian also. You cannot claim accuracy to both so that is another fallacy of yours, as you assert that Judaism supports your views when it entirely casts it out the window
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This is a one time event and not a law to follow afterwards. The
Bible doesn't condone infanticide any more than condoning
the murder of abortionists.
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I'm curious. Who on this forum honestly believe that that "religion
of peace" isn't violent?
Please don't attempt to use the Old Testament of the Bible as a
source. The reason is because we are no longer under the Law via
Jesus. But, and it's a big but, if you must quote the Old Testament
please use the context of the verse and make a distinction of law
and one time events.
Most anti-Christians like to use one time events as law.
This is a serious question. I'd also like for each person to state a
reason as to why they do/don't believe this.
of peace" isn't violent?
Please don't attempt to use the Old Testament of the Bible as a
source. The reason is because we are no longer under the Law via
Jesus. But, and it's a big but, if you must quote the Old Testament
please use the context of the verse and make a distinction of law
and one time events.
Most anti-Christians like to use one time events as law.
This is a serious question. I'd also like for each person to state a
reason as to why they do/don't believe this.
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TG123
Regular Member
... or Palestine! Or Chechnya!
May the Palestinian, West Papuan, Tibetan and all peoples under brutal military occupation find freedom. Shame on those so-called Christians, Jews and Muslims and others who support these atrocities or choose to close their eyes. Double shame on those who denounce injustices carried out against one or some of these groups but hypocritically support or ignore those being carried out against others.
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TG123
Regular Member
I do. I believe that Islam is not a violent religion that some make it out to be.
I believe that Islam does allow violence, but in self-defence, and does not allow attacks against innocent people who are not harming Muslims. I believe that there are many teachings in Islam that are not true and it is not a religion from God. However, I do not believe it is any more "violent" than any other religion.
People who label themselves Muslims have done and continue to do terrible things. The same is true of people who label themselves Christians. Every American president has claimed he is a Christian, and look at how many aggressive and evil wars America has waged and continues to wage. Some 80% of the American population identifies itself as Christian, and these people have voted in leaders who have bombed and invaded countries in the middle east, Asia and Central and South America, as well as propped up some of the most murderous dictators of the 20th century. Some 77% of the armed terrorist group that is known as the US Armed Forces claims to be Christian.
Before you accuse me of being an America basher, things aren't that different in Canada. We also have our hands stained with blood of innocent people we have murdered overseas and at home. My nation will answer to God for the thousands of children that were dehumanized, abused, raped and some even murdered in residential schools for being Native, by so-called 'Christians'. Our mining companies make a killing in Guatemala and Colombia- literally, by working with governments that use death squads to clear out people opposed to our mining.
In spite of all of this, this is not the fault of Jesus or the Bible. This is the fault of people choosing to ignore His teachings.
Islam and Judaism allow violence in self-defence, but they do not allow their adherents to go out and murder innocent men, women and children. Christianity does not allow violence in any circumstance- even self-defence... although many have chosen to ignore this, from the inventors of the so-called "just war theory" to our 'brave men and women in uniform' today.
There is plenty of error in Islam. The same is true of Judaism. It is unnecessary and counter-productive to demonize their religion and state falsehoods about it. It will not help the spread of the Gospel. Don't forget that Satan is the father of all lies.
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Where is your evidence? Mohammad is the essence of that "religion
of peace". He was very violent. He was adamant about making
people conform to his "religion of peace". He had sex with Aisha,
a nine (9) year old. Even the modern "religion of peace" agrees
with this. He ransacked nations.
How is any of this peaceful? Seriously.
I'm going to vomit while you try to explain this nonsense.
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TG123
Regular Member
Muhammad waged war initially on the pagans who threw him out of Mecca and persecuted his followers. He waged wars also with some Jewish tribes who supported them. He did massacre POWs from the Banu Qurayzah tribe and took their women and children as prisoners. He did at the same time forbid his men from killing women and children intentionally, although, like the US Army, he did believe in "collateral damage", saying it is OK to attack a place with civilians if there are also military targets there. I hope you are as much opposed to your armed forces as you are to him, since they have killed far more people than he did, many of them innocent civilians.
Muhammad did at one point threaten to attack 2 Omani leaders if they did not convert to Islam. I am unaware of any other instances when he waged or threatened to wage aggressive war.
Muhammad married a 6 year old girl and slept with her, although we do not know how old she was when they had sex. Some say when she was a child, others say when she was more than 18. Marrying a child and having sex with a child is perverted and wrong in light of what we know about child development, sure. It was also what societies did back then. Does that make Muhammad marrying Aisha at such a young age OK? No. Does it make him worse than others of his time? Also no.
I am not arguing that Islam is a "religion of peace". It isn't. It is neither pacifist nor does it offer the path to true peace, which can only be found in Jesus Christ.
However, it is also not a religion of terrorism, as some absurdly suggest.
About the vomiting thing, if it is happening on a regular basis, you should maybe see a doctor. Hopefully it doesn't happen after every time you eat, it may be a case of bulimia. I wish you all the best in your health struggles.
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Demonstrate why.
It IS the topic. Look at the top of this thread. You were the one derailing it into politics.
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So I was right- you were never a Christian. You just fibbed.
Yes. Agreed.
I accept the Judaic laws that pertain to me, a Jewish Christian. The historic events - even the tragic ones- are not laws. They are history.
I don't think you understand this, and the distinctions between history and law, prescription and description. This is why your attempt to place the two together is incorrect.
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We come from different planets. I respect your worldview but believe it is truncated and naive. I've said that before, and I don't think you are a fool either- just stuck in university apologetics.
I don't think Palestine is occupied. It is Israel. The military presence was given its blessing by the UN (Res 242). Unfortunately, this makes it hard for the residents, but this will takes years to solve. I believe the violence in the region (West Bank, Gaza) is rooted firmly in fundamentalist Islam, with its false claims to Israel being an Islamic Waqf, and the anti-semitic lust of Islamist leaders. This of course is the platform of the totalitarian thugs who run Gaza (do you really support Hamas, Dude? Seriously) I don't think Israel's government is any good either. I don't support them blindly, but they do protect my family who live there, and the millions of Arabs (whom you call "Palestinians") who also live in peace and freedom in Israel. They have more peace, security and rights than any other Arab descent people in the region.
Secondly, West Papua is legally Indonesia. Nothing you can do about it. As a sovereign power, they have the mandate to keep order. However, I do believe that the W. Papuans should be independent, but it will take some time. They will follow the path of E. Timor in the end, but it will be political disaster for the Indonesian PM who loses W. Papua.
Tibet- well, what can you say? Betrayed by their own into the hands of another nation. But supporting Tibetans is very 1990's and passed by now. How sad.
Chechnya- hell hole. Muslim population of course. Not a lot of sympathy from me, I'm afraid. They had a peaceful existence given to them and the whackos came in a rejected it. Not very good thing to do when nobody wanted the unrest. Shame on Western people like yourself who support that enemies of peace and order and believe the lies of Islamists. Putin did the right thing.
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SoldierOfTheKing
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The problem with Islam is not that it is "violent" or "terrorist". Not by a long shot. First, as a non-pacifist, it would indeed be hypocritical of me to condemn Islam on those grounds. Second, because it focuses on means to the exclusion of ends. It implies that Islam would be a positive, or at least benign, force if it would only refrain using violence to meet those ends. The issue at root is not just the means Islam uses, but the ends at which it aims, namely to mold all aspects of human life into its own image. We have a word to describe ideologies such as this: totalitarian.
Mary Jackson in the March 2007 issue of New English Review hits the problem with Islam, from a political standpoint, right on the nose:
Islam is boring
by Mary Jackson (March 2007)
Its dull, dull, dull. My God its dull. Its so desperately dull and tedious and boring and unimaginative and irrepressibly drab and awful and desp-er-ate-ly dull.
Python's Michael Palin was talking about accountancy, but he could just as easily have been talking about Islam. And accountancy is not violent or dangerous, although there have been heated arguments over cash flow hedges and calculators at dawn over embedded derivatives.
Islam is like global warming. Its very boring but very important. It would be better if the important things were interesting, so we would all take notice of them.
Why is Islam so dull? There are a number of reasons.
Dull things feed off themselves. Writers who review other writers books favourably for fear of a bad review in revenge end up dull, even if they start out interesting. Television programmes about television are usually dull. Actors are dull when they talk about acting.
The purpose of Islam is Islam the spread of Islam, the subjugation and destruction of all things non-Islamic. There is nothing else to Islam. It feeds off itself and reproduces itself. Just as a human being would, without challenges, Islam becomes tyrannical and dull.
Allah, in Islam, created man to be his slave, with no thoughts, initiative or ideas of his own, and in consequence no morality, for morality is only possible if one can choose between right and wrong. As well as being tyrannical and cruel, this is tedious. There is none of the debate that the Judeo-Christian God has, for example with Job, because the perfect Muslim is not autonomous: he is an automaton.
Islams rules are quite arbitrary. Muslims are enjoined to put their right shoe on first, but it could just as easily be their left. The rules are arbitrary because Allah is arbitrary. He can make anything happen, and change his laws at will. This makes Allah terrifying, but boring at the same time. Any child knows that a story without rules would be tedious. The rules are different from the rules we have in real life, but there must be internal consistency. And games without rules would be pointless; nobody would pay to watch two top-class tennis players hit the ball into the net and call it a goal.
There are many other reasons why Islam is boring, but I cant be bothered thinking about them, as I have a freshly painted wall to observe drying. The problem is that we are obliged to think about Islam because, although it is boring, it threatens everything that isnt boring: art, music, cathedrals, literature, jokes, dogs, love, perfume, bacon, statues, science, wine, beer, Catherine Tate, limericks, films, plays, democracy and Spinal Tap.
How can something as boring, stupid and pointless as Islam destroy something as great as Western Civilisation?
It happens. Think of friends or relations you have known, lively interesting people, who acquire dull wives or husbands. Nine times out of ten, the dullness prevails. A late relative of mine used to remark when two boring or nasty people got together: Well, at least they wont spoil another couple. People level down more than they level up. Something as dreary and nasty as Islam will drag us down to its level rather than allow us to change it for the better. That's the way it goes.
Anyway, Im bored with Islam, so thats it for now.
Mary Jackson in the March 2007 issue of New English Review hits the problem with Islam, from a political standpoint, right on the nose:
Islam is boring
by Mary Jackson (March 2007)
Its dull, dull, dull. My God its dull. Its so desperately dull and tedious and boring and unimaginative and irrepressibly drab and awful and desp-er-ate-ly dull.
Python's Michael Palin was talking about accountancy, but he could just as easily have been talking about Islam. And accountancy is not violent or dangerous, although there have been heated arguments over cash flow hedges and calculators at dawn over embedded derivatives.
Islam is like global warming. Its very boring but very important. It would be better if the important things were interesting, so we would all take notice of them.
Why is Islam so dull? There are a number of reasons.
Dull things feed off themselves. Writers who review other writers books favourably for fear of a bad review in revenge end up dull, even if they start out interesting. Television programmes about television are usually dull. Actors are dull when they talk about acting.
The purpose of Islam is Islam the spread of Islam, the subjugation and destruction of all things non-Islamic. There is nothing else to Islam. It feeds off itself and reproduces itself. Just as a human being would, without challenges, Islam becomes tyrannical and dull.
Allah, in Islam, created man to be his slave, with no thoughts, initiative or ideas of his own, and in consequence no morality, for morality is only possible if one can choose between right and wrong. As well as being tyrannical and cruel, this is tedious. There is none of the debate that the Judeo-Christian God has, for example with Job, because the perfect Muslim is not autonomous: he is an automaton.
Islams rules are quite arbitrary. Muslims are enjoined to put their right shoe on first, but it could just as easily be their left. The rules are arbitrary because Allah is arbitrary. He can make anything happen, and change his laws at will. This makes Allah terrifying, but boring at the same time. Any child knows that a story without rules would be tedious. The rules are different from the rules we have in real life, but there must be internal consistency. And games without rules would be pointless; nobody would pay to watch two top-class tennis players hit the ball into the net and call it a goal.
There are many other reasons why Islam is boring, but I cant be bothered thinking about them, as I have a freshly painted wall to observe drying. The problem is that we are obliged to think about Islam because, although it is boring, it threatens everything that isnt boring: art, music, cathedrals, literature, jokes, dogs, love, perfume, bacon, statues, science, wine, beer, Catherine Tate, limericks, films, plays, democracy and Spinal Tap.
How can something as boring, stupid and pointless as Islam destroy something as great as Western Civilisation?
It happens. Think of friends or relations you have known, lively interesting people, who acquire dull wives or husbands. Nine times out of ten, the dullness prevails. A late relative of mine used to remark when two boring or nasty people got together: Well, at least they wont spoil another couple. People level down more than they level up. Something as dreary and nasty as Islam will drag us down to its level rather than allow us to change it for the better. That's the way it goes.
Anyway, Im bored with Islam, so thats it for now.
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