The Lord's day.

[Elder 111]

I asked about Christians, not gentiles.

In the passage you quoted this invitation occurred after the first meeting with Paul in attendance at the synagogue. There were no Christians there at this point. So please try again.

So Paul was addressing the Gentiles so that they may become Muslims?
Why would Paul address the gentiles on a Sabbath and then seek to have the keep Sunday? Note that this occasion was not with the Jews nor in the synagogue. Would it not have to do with the fact that the Sabbath was still the day of worship, would it? Or is Paul a hypocrite?

 

[Elder 111]

Just as I said you will throw out anything you don't like. You're not the slightest bit interested in the truth. It interferes with your agenda requiring the keeping (select parts) of the law. I offered to show you what the language of the day meant. You contend there is no contemporary language. There is much fraud for sure. The Didache doesn't fall into this category. I didn't cite it to prove a doctrine as much as I cited it to show contemporary language.Do you wish a word by word exegesis or could I refer you to an online interlinear you would really look at?

The word collection (v 1) and the word gatherings 9v 2) are the same word in the Greek.

In store implies non private commercial sense in the Greek. There is no mention of home or house which Paul uses in other places.

By him implies free will as Paul indicates in 2 Cor. This would also be in line with what Jesus taught by whosoever will. You're completely disregarding the full context of the passage as can be shown with the word collection. Do I need to give commentary on that aspect?

One of the problems you would have is the word tithēmi:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']meaning to set, to place, to put down, to lay aside. So that to "tithemi" him give the impression that it is a call to put down/ lay aside the money on the first day. Why put down if you are collecting, and why by him if in Church?

[/FONT]​

 

[Elder 111]

Evidently I do.

v 1 - where is this collection? Does Paul get it at or from the church or individuals homes? I think most people would say Paul picks up the collection at one single place as the word implies. If it is in individuals homes it isn't a collection.

You need to address this issue.

v 2 - the word thēsaurizō doesn't allow for private home/house.
the word para means from
the word hekastos means each which is qualified with heautou (him)
the word mē means not
the word logeia is the same word use in v 1 for collection. The word in v2 is in the plural form. This indicates no separate locations as in individual homes. Paul isn't coming to get collections. He is coming to get a collection as indicated by v 1.
the word let in English means allow. I'm having a little problem with the Greek here. I don't quite understand the English word let being in the text from the Greek. NTL let indicates free will.
the word titheto means to place or put

So I must ask if the verse means to put in one's home as you indicate. I really don't think so and would like to see support for such a statement.

Is the first day of the week disputed?

The first day is not in dispute but the fact that the text is used to say that there was a Sunday service.
Para can also mean by and besides. What is interesting is that it is used mostly in referring to the individual.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Mat 2:4[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of G3844 them where Christ should be born.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Mat 2:7[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of G3844them diligently what time the star appeared.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif'] Mat 13:19[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by G3844 the way side[/FONT]​

There are many more.
Was there ever a consideration that the money could have been collected from individuals by someone going house to house before Paul came. The "by him" must come into play. Of course that will eliminate the church service.

 

[from scratch]

So Paul was addressing the Gentiles so that they may become Muslims?
Why would Paul address the gentiles on a Sabbath and then seek to have the keep Sunday? Note that this occasion was not with the Jews nor in the synagogue. Would it not have to do with the fact that the Sabbath was still the day of worship, would it? Or is Paul a hypocrite?

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know the word gentiles was synonymous with Christians. I asked about Christians and you tell me about gentiles and now Muslims.

Neither the Jews or the gentiles were Christians at this first meeting and quite possibly at the start of the second. Paul wasn't an invited evangelist at the synagogue.

 

[Standing Up]

I thought Jesus Christ was the mediator.

1 Timothy 2:5

New International Version (NIV)

5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

I am confused who also are the main harvest?

Your Sister in the Lord, thanks for taking time out.

Yep, Christ is the mediator.

Rev. 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

There's the harvest and there's first fruits.

 

[from scratch]

One of the problems you would have is the word tithēmi:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']meaning to set, to place, to put down, to lay aside. So that to "tithemi" him give the impression that it is a call to put down/ lay aside the money on the first day. Why put down if you are collecting, and why by him if in Church?[/font]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif'][/font]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif'][/font]​

So you wish to apply a part of the definition that doesn't apply and ignore the one that does.

I don't think it means to put down anything. How does anything get put in the collection? I think it is placed in the collection and the definition says to place.

You wish to use put down. I take it as a double innuendo. Is the intention to destroy?

No tithemi isn't a problem for me.

 

[from scratch]

The first day is not in dispute but the fact that the text is used to say that there was a Sunday service.
Para can also mean by and besides. What is interesting is that it is used mostly in referring to the individual.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Mat 2:4[/font]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of G3844 them where Christ should be born.[/font]​

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Mat 2:7[/font]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of G3844them diligently what time the star appeared.[/font]​

[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif'] Mat 13:19[/font]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, 'sans serif']When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by G3844 the way side[/font]​

There are many more.
Was there ever a consideration that the money could have been collected from individuals by someone going house to house before Paul came. The "by him" must come into play. Of course that will eliminate the church service.

Does your church receive a collection during worship, or are you required to bring your offering (gift) on another day? Why would they be doing anything different in Paul's day?

It is clear you don't wish to accept the text just as I said before you will only throw it out and trample it like trash.

 

[By Faith Alone]

For whom was the collection initiated?

 

[Elder 111]

Does your church receive a collection during worship, or are you required to bring your offering (gift) on another day? Why would they be doing anything different in Paul's day?

It is clear you don't wish to accept the text just as I said before you will only throw it out and trample it like trash.

We have projected our condition on the time of this account. Firstly, was there a church building? Were there offerings as we now have?
One of the things we know is that many if not all of these early churches met at someone's house or simply in the open.
Many if not all of the personnel were not paid as our pastors are, and as Paul himself stated. He supported himself with tent making. We can not just project what happens now and expect that the same happened then.

 

[from scratch]

We have projected our condition on the time of this account. Firstly, was there a church building? Were there offerings as we now have?
One of the things we know is that many if not all of these early churches met at someone's house or simply in the open.
Many if not all of the personnel were not paid as our pastors are, and as Paul himself stated. He supported himself with tent making. We can not just project what happens now and expect that the same happened then.

You'll do anything to avoid the truth, won"t you?

 

[Elder 111]

You'll do anything to avoid the truth, won"t you?

How about being guided by the Holy Spirit to get to the truth?

 

[By Faith Alone]

How about being guided by the Holy Spirit to get to the truth?

Being guided by the pulpit and/or tradition is not the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us by the Word.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How about being guided by the Holy Spirit to get to the truth?

Which begs the question:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7713242/
How do you know if you "have" the Holy Spirit?




.

 

[Tzaousios]

Being guided by the pulpit and/or tradition is not the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us by the Word.

Why can't the Holy Spirit guide from the pulpit or tradition?

 

[Elder 111]

Why can't the Holy Spirit guide from the pulpit or tradition?

How can tradition be guided by the Holy Spirit?

 

[By Faith Alone]

Why can't the Holy Spirit guide from the pulpit or tradition?

The only..SURE..guidance.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Check the fingerprints.

 

[Elder 111]

I came across this by accident. Does this add support to the claim that "the Lord's day" is not Sunday?
Catholic Bishop confessed that they change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday - YouTube

 

[ananda]

I came across this by accident. Does this add support to the claim that "the Lord's day" is not Sunday?
Catholic Bishop confessed that they change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday - YouTube

Good find.

Yes, the Catholic Church started the whole Sunday thing, and Protestants kept that tradition when they "left" the RCC. Now, that tradition is being defended, even though it's not Scriptural.

 

[from scratch]

How about being guided by the Holy Spirit to get to the truth?

Guess it depends on what truth one is talking about. If you're saying the Holy Spirit leads us back to what we're delivered from, I'd say we're not talking about the same Holy Spirit. Neither can you say we're talking about the same Jesus because - ... the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[from scratch]

Why can't the Holy Spirit guide from the pulpit or tradition?

Well He can. One just has to learn when He's in the pulpit.