Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by netzarim

Nope.

Scripture teaches that Sabbath is for our rest and enjoyment, for YHVH's glory.
The Pharisees were admonished for adding man-made restrictions to the Sabbath until it became a huge burden.
​

QFT!

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE PHARISEES

Matthew 23:4
"For they are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".

Acts 20:29 "For I have perceived this.
That shall be entering after the departure of me, wolves, weighty, into ye, no sparing of-the shepherded/flock"
[Matt 23:4/Philip 3:2]

Duran Duran - Hungry like the Wolf Live from Arena 1984 - YouTube

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I'd say the legalism is the requiring the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath for salvation.
There is no such requirement in the New Covenant or New Testament.

That all depends on how you view the teachings of Jesus as to how they relate to principles of Sabbath keeping. Jesus taught much about how to keep the Sabbath, He didn't need to teach what day it was or how it was the forth commandment. Refusing to heal on the Sabbath was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Calling it sinful to get something to eat was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Jesus taught much on Sabbath keeping thus acknowledging its requirement.

I suppose that could be debateble...especially when it comes to the 7th day sabbatarians.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7580094/
Pharisaical" Legalism?

With the conversation of Legalism ongoing, I&#8217;ve had a question about a certain kind of Legalism that I don&#8217;t know the word for.

What is the label for a Christian who thinks that enforcing the Law by force of government is the way to the Kingdom? Believing that obedience to the Law brings about an individual&#8217;s salvation is Legalism but what do you call enforcing the law by the government, as the solution to collective salvation? Like within Islam, implementing Sharia Law can be seen as central to solving the problems.

I ask because one of the main reasons for criticism of Christianity that I get is that we impose our morality within the political system. I try to argue they should address that issue specifically, instead of trying to argue against the existence of God or Jesus. The problem is that I don&#8217;t know what word to use that identifies that kind of thinking within Christianity.

I have before used the term &#8220;Pharisaical Legalism&#8221; that I picked up from someone online but &#8220;Pharisaical&#8221; usually is associated with hypocrisy and not enforcing the Law by force, which is what I am trying to identify. It is also derogatory, which I don&#8217;t want to be when trying to discuss the issue.

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[ananda]

Context is everything.

Earlier in the passage, we see some of the Jews getting angry with Christ for commanding the man just healed to carry his bed on the Sabbath. According to the letter of the Law, carrying a load on the Sabbath day was strictly forbidden (Numbers 15:32-35, Jeremiah 17:21-23).

However, Jesus defends Himself by stating that both He and His Father are always at work, even on the Sabbath- proving to Israel that Christ is indeed the LORD of the Sabbath. After which, the Jews seek to kill Him for breaking the Sabbath and for making Himself equal with God.

Indeed, Sabbath was made for man - Sabbath was not made for God.

My understanding of "work" is more flexible than most. The man in Jn was just healed and was given strength. His bed was no longer a burden.

For example, I enjoy cutting grass in the summer. It is quite a pleasing and relaxing thing for me to do, and it is not involved with my normal occupation. I do not consider it work, and I have no problem doing it on Sabbath.

If, however, on another Sabbath, I find myself sick, even thinking about going out to cut the grass is no longer pleasing and relaxing. It is thus now work and a burden for me, and I will avoid it on that Sabbath.

To strictly define what is and is not "work" for everyone without regard for individual circumstances is Pharisaical and condemned.

You never did answer my question:

If a man works on Sabbath so that he can put food on the table, is he guilty of violating the Sabbath?

That is between him and YHVH; as I've pointed out, the definition of "work" is not all that clear cut or strictly defined for me, and is instead quite flexible and dependent on individual circumstances.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

And we all have our own opinions

 

[Lion King]

Indeed, Sabbath was made for man - Sabbath was not made for God.

My understanding of "work" is more flexible than most. The man in Jn was just healed and was given strength. His bed was no longer a burden.

For example, I enjoy cutting grass in the summer. It is quite a pleasing and relaxing thing for me to do, and it is not involved with my normal occupation. I do not consider it work, and I have no problem doing it on Sabbath.

If, however, on another Sabbath, I find myself sick, even thinking about going out to cut the grass is no longer pleasing and relaxing. It is thus now work and a burden for me, and I will avoid it on that Sabbath.

To strictly define what is and is not "work" for everyone without regard for individual circumstances is Pharisaical and condemned.

Unfortunately, like Israel, you don't understand the true purpose of God's Sabbath. Israel erroneously thought by circumcising themselves and their children, fasting, resting on the Sabbaths etc, they were pleasing the LORD. They figured if they did all these things God would look upon them favorably. They could not have been more wrong!!

What God requires from us is mercy, not sacrifice (Isaiah 58). He desires the circumcision of the heart and not the flesh. The Sabbath day, like all the Holy days given to Israel, points directly to the Messiah. Jesus Christ is our Sabbath- He is our rest (Colossians 2:13-17, Hebrews 4).

&#8220;Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.&#8221; Matthew 11:28-30

Thus says the Lord: &#8220;Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. But they did not obey nor incline their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear nor receive instruction. Jeremiah 17:21-23

So, all those who are weary, take your burden to Jesus Christ, He will give you rest forever. Let's cease from all our works, efforts, activity and depend on the works of God for our salvation (John 14:10).

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with those who choose to rest on a certain day of the week. We all need rest from our physical labors, after all. However, do not deceive yourselves by thinking that delights the LORD. Resting on the Sabbath day is about as pleasing to God as circumcising yourself. Look beyond the letter of the law to the spirit of the law, and only then will you truly understand the purpose of God's Law.


In Christ alone.

 

[ananda]

Unfortunately, like Israel, you don't understand the true purpose of God's Sabbath. Israel erroneously thought by circumcising themselves and their children, fasting, resting on the Sabbaths etc, they were pleasing the LORD. They figured if they did all these things God would look upon them favorably. They could not have been more wrong!!

Unfortunately, you don't understand my position either. What you claim I "don't understand" is not my position at all.

What God requires from us is mercy, not sacrifice (Isaiah 58). He desires the circumcision of the heart and not the flesh. The Sabbath day, like all the Holy days given to Israel, points directly to the Messiah....

Isa 58 does not state anything about mercy vs sacrifice.

If you are referring to Hos 6:6, please re-read it.

• First, &#1495;&#1505;&#1491; in the verse is commonly translated "mercy", as in "For I desired mercy ...". However, the underlying Hebrew not only includes the meaning of mercy in English, it also encompasses the ideas of faithfulness and goodness.
• Second, the verse does not say that YHVH requires faithfulness/goodness/mercy and not require sacrifice, as many might falsely claim. It does say YHVH desires (&#1495;&#1508;&#1510;&#1514;&#1497 faithfulness/goodness/mercy and not sacrifice.

He desires faithfulness/goodness/mercy; He does not desire sacrifice. However, "no desire for sacrifice" does not equal "no requirement for sacrifice".

In summary, YHVH is teaching us that having faithfulness, goodness, and mercy from the outset is much better than failing/sinning repeatedly and having to offer repeated sacrifices.

A parent does not delight in punishing their child. They delight in their child walking in faithfulness. But the parent requires punishment if the child continually rebels, even though the parent does not desire to punish their child.

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

Thus says the Lord: “Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. But they did not obey nor incline their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear nor receive instruction. Jeremiah 17:21-23

So, all those who are weary, take your burden to Jesus Christ, He will give you rest forever. Let's cease from all our works, efforts, activity and depend on the works of God for our salvation (John 14:10).

The rest which Messiah offers is rest from the excruciating burdens of hell, not rest from His work.

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with those who choose to rest on a certain day of the week. We all need rest from our physical labors, after all. However, do not deceive yourselves by thinking that delights the LORD. Resting on the Sabbath day is about as pleasing to God as circumcising yourself. Look beyond the letter of the law to the spirit of the law, and only then will you truly understand the purpose of God's Law. In Christ alone.

I disagree.

 

[Lion King]

Unfortunately, you don't understand my position either. What you claim I "don't understand" is not my position at all.

Isa 58 does not state anything about mercy vs sacrifice.

If you are referring to Hos 6:6, please re-read it.

• First, &#1495;&#1505;&#1491; in the verse is commonly translated "mercy", as in "For I desired mercy ...". However, the underlying Hebrew not only includes the meaning of mercy in English, it also encompasses the ideas of faithfulness and goodness.
• Second, the verse does not say that YHVH requires faithfulness/goodness/mercy and not require sacrifice, as many might falsely claim. It does say YHVH desires (&#1495;&#1508;&#1510;&#1514;&#1497 faithfulness/goodness/mercy and not sacrifice.

He desires faithfulness/goodness/mercy; He does not desire sacrifice. However, "no desire for sacrifice" does not equal "no requirement for sacrifice".

In summary, YHVH is teaching us that having faithfulness, goodness, and mercy from the outset is much better than failing/sinning repeatedly and having to offer repeated sacrifices.

A parent does not delight in punishing their child. They delight in their child walking in faithfulness. But the parent requires punishment if the child continually rebels, even though the parent does not desire to punish their child.

The rest which Messiah offers is rest from the excruciating burdens of hell, not rest from His work.

I disagree.

As I said before, you clearly do not understand the purpose of the Sabbath.

 

[ananda]

As I said before, you clearly do not understand the purpose of the Sabbath.

I would beg to differ.

 

[from scratch]

Indeed, Sabbath was made for man - Sabbath was not made for God.

My understanding of "work" is more flexible than most. The man in Jn was just healed and was given strength. His bed was no longer a burden.

For example, I enjoy cutting grass in the summer. It is quite a pleasing and relaxing thing for me to do, and it is not involved with my normal occupation. I do not consider it work, and I have no problem doing it on Sabbath.

If, however, on another Sabbath, I find myself sick, even thinking about going out to cut the grass is no longer pleasing and relaxing. It is thus now work and a burden for me, and I will avoid it on that Sabbath.

To strictly define what is and is not "work" for everyone without regard for individual circumstances is Pharisaical and condemned.

That is between him and YHVH; as I've pointed out, the definition of "work" is not all that clear cut or strictly defined for me, and is instead quite flexible and dependent on individual circumstances.

And we all have our own opinions

I didn't know law was flexible. One day the same thing is sin and another is isn't. Hmmm! most interesting.

 

[SwordFall]

Weren't the Pharisees admonished for this type of legalism?

Luke 13:14-16 NASB
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But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, "There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day."

But the Lord answered him and said, "You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?

"And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"
​

Jesus teaches that the Sabbath is a day of healing, not a chore for better or worse.

But neglecting the Sabbath can be sinful nonetheless if one purposefully avoids it, or makes unneeded ventures a priority above it.

The simple truth:
-If a Christian avoids the Sabbath, they are not finding joy in it and by extension, in most cases, their bridge to Jesus is weakening.
-However, a faulting demand that others observe the Sabbath, even if they want to but cannot due to, let's say, having to work, is equally sinful. It follows suite to the Pharisees themselves.

 

[from scratch]

I would beg to differ.

Then what exactly is the purpose of the 7th day Sabbath in your opinion? If one (non Israelite) doesn't keep it do they sin?

 

[SayaOtonashi]

if they does keep it they aren't sinning if the mosaic is ended. This doesn't mean you can sin but the mosaic law is only for Israelite only. For Mosaic Law was for Israelites to be saved by works.

 

[Lion King]

if they does keep it they aren't sinning if the mosaic is ended. This doesn't mean you can sin but the mosaic law is only for Israelite only. For Mosaic Law was for Israelites to be saved by works.

Not one Israelite has ever been saved by the Mosaic Law...

 

[from scratch]

That all depends on how you view the teachings of Jesus as to how they relate to principles of Sabbath keeping. Jesus taught much about how to keep the Sabbath, He didn't need to teach what day it was or how it was the forth commandment. Refusing to heal on the Sabbath was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Calling it sinful to get something to eat was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Jesus taught much on Sabbath keeping thus acknowledging its requirement.

What did Jesus teach about the Sabbath? Keeping the Sabbath was certainly a requirement for Israel prior to the Cross. However the New Covenant is now in force as Jesus said. This New Covenant isn't like the previous one according to Jeremiah and pointed out in Hebrews.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by maco

That all depends on how you view the teachings of Jesus as to how they relate to principles of Sabbath keeping. Jesus taught much about how to keep the Sabbath, He didn't need to teach what day it was or how it was the forth commandment. Refusing to heal on the Sabbath was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Calling it sinful to get something to eat was a violation of the spirit of the Law. Jesus taught much on Sabbath keeping thus acknowledging its requirement.
​

What did Jesus teach about the Sabbath? Keeping the Sabbath was certainly a requirement for Israel prior to the Cross.
However the New Covenant is now in force as Jesus said. This New Covenant isn't like the previous one according to Jeremiah and pointed out in Hebrews.

I would tend to agree.....


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[SwordFall]

Not one Israelite has ever been saved by the Mosaic Law...

So what, all the sages and prophets went to Hell? All the Jews were kindle for the flame?

 

[JohnRabbit]

He did acts of compassion on the Sabbath, which is lawful. He did not work on the Sabbath.

thanks for clearing that up!

 

[MJohn7]

My opinion. Dont just keep the sabbath holy, keep everyday holy. Live in holiness, do good everyday and dont work to feed the desires of the flesh but to feed your families and the Church, this is doing good on the sabbath as Jesus did and it follows the doctrine of Godliness instead of covetousness. Its fulfills the sabbath and all doctrine every day. This is doing good every day. Doesn't matter if its Sunday, Saturday, doesn't matter what calender you use to calculate days. Every day is the same.

This seems logical.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Dont just keep the sabbath holy, keep everyday holy. Live in holinees, do good everyday and dont work to feed the desires of the flesh but to feed your families and the Church, this doing good on the sabbath as Jesus did and it follows the doctrine of Godliness instead of covetousness. Its fulfills the sabath and all doctrine ever day. This is doing good every day. Doesnt matter if its Sunday, Saturday, doesnt matter what calender you use to calculate days. Every day is the same.

This seems logical.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

just seems to matter if it the day that He designates!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by MJohn7

Dont just keep the sabbath holy, keep everyday holy. Live in holinees, do good everyday and dont work to feed the desires of the flesh but to feed your families and the Church, this doing good on the sabbath as Jesus did and it follows the doctrine of Godliness instead of covetousness. Its fulfills the sabath and all doctrine ever day. This is doing good every day. Doesnt matter if its Sunday, Saturday, doesnt matter what calender you use to calculate days. Every day is the same.


​

just seems to matter if it the day that He designates!

How do we determine that? [and don't say look at the Bible! ]


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[JohnRabbit]

How do we determine that? [and don't say look at the Bible! ]


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gen 2:1-3?

i'm just saying!

 

[MJohn7]

just seems to matter if it the day that He designates!

Jesus said take no thought for your life, Paul says having food and clothing be content, the kingdom isnt about financial gain. If we work only to feed our families and others then this is doing good on the sabbath which is permitted by Christ. Only covetous men need a special day in which to stop being covetous and materialistic. Godly men do that every day reguardless of the day of week. Dont you see? If we follow Jesus and his apostles doctrine then we are automatically observing the sabbath as Jesus did, but we do it every day.