Saturday or Sunday Worship

[Light of the East]

Let me tell you why this claim is made.

All Pagan religions had some form of sun worship and the sun god was the most prominent god in many of those religions. Israel was the only nation that worshiped the true God. When Israel rebelled against God, a lot of the time they participated in sun worship.

All false worship is an invention of Satan but sun worship seems to be his favorite and remember that Lucifer means "Light bearer". The sun is the brightest form of light in our universe.

You may wonder how sun worship correlates to sunday worship. Let me say here that I am in now way saying people who worship on Sunday are worshiping the sun. That would be a very false and judgmental statement. The correlation really comes from the transition from Sabbath worship to sunday worship which was legislated by Constantine the Great in 321AD and later on by the Council of Laodicea in 364AD. Constantine who was the emperor of Rome at that time was pagan and paganism was the religion of Rome. Main day of worship for the Pagan's was sunday which was named sunday because that was the day that the sun was worshipped.

When Constantine wanted to turn the empire of Rome to a Christian religion he tried to made the transition easier. So, all of the holy days of paganism which were to honor their gods, he turned the event into a Christian even to honor a Christian symbol. Sunday was no longer the main pagan day or worship to worship the sun but now the main Christian day of worship to honour God. What we call Christmas was the day when they celebrated the rebirth of the sun god but it is not celebrated as the birth of Jesus. Easter also was about the pagan god Ishtar and originally had nothing to do with easter eggs and stuff like that.

So originally what was the devils invention has been absorbed into most branches of Christianity and this is why you would hear folks making such statements.

I can show you from scripture that it was prophesied that Christianity would become corrupted. This prophecy is found in Daniel 2. In Daniel 2 God shows Nebuchadnezzar a dream which shows a summary of the history of the world powers that shall control the world, starting from his Kingdom up until the end of time. He seems an image, composed of different materials to represent this timeline. Each material represents something. So the first Kingdom was Babylon represented by the head of gold, then Medio Persia represented by the chest and arms of silver, then Greece represented by the belly and thighs of brass and then Rome represented by the legs of iron.

There is also a material which is different from all the others. All of the previous materials were metals. This material is clay and this is where I will focus now.

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Daniel does not say what clay represents in this prophecy but we need to find out what it is to understand this. The scripture helps us here.

Isa_64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer_18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

These two scriptures show us that Potter's Clay is used as a symbol of God's people who at the time was israel. Potter's clay is pure, undefiled clay. Clay that is totally subject to the Potter. If anything is mixed with Potter's Clay it becomes Miry Clay. Now in Daniel 2:41 it started of as potter's clay and by the end of the verse it is called miry clay. So in that period, the clay has changed from being pure to being corrupt. But it is corrupted by the iron which is a symbol of Pagan Rome. The verse also says that there shall be in it the strength of the iron which means when this mixing takes place of paganism and Christianity, it is paganism that will change Christianity and not vice versa. So paganism has crept into the church and according to the prophecy, Roman Influence is going to be present until God establishes his kingdom.

This is a hot, steaming load of SDA bovine fertilizer!

I don't even know if it's worth answering you, understanding that you are so brainwashed that you probably wouldn't listen anyway.

 

[Light of the East]

The Sabbath belongs to the Old Covenant and the people of the Old Covenant:

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

The Old Covenant is over (Heb. 8:13), National Israel is no longer exclusively the people of God (Matt: 21: 33-46) and to continue to celebrate the Sabbath denies that Jesus Son of Mary was the promised Messiah Who gave to mankind the Day of Rest which is His salvation.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Worship can and should be offered on any day of the week. The real heart of the question is, What day did the church gather together? This was clearly the 'first day' (Acts 20:7). The day of Pentecost falls always on Sunday, which is the day that the Spirit came with power to initiate the Lord's commission to his disciples. History also bears witness to the Sunday gathering of the church corporately.

And yet the church has long had devotional services like evening vespers conducted prior to the coming Sunday assembly. The more common variation in modern Protestantism is the mid-week Bible study or prayer service.

Very true...

Many celebrate on Saturday without feeling compelled to do as if Saturday was AWLAYS the original day Sabbath occurred on since that is more traditional than based 100% in fact. Ethiopian Orthodox worship on Saturday as well as Sunday (in addition to keeping many Jewish customs in their lifestyles) - and officially, in Oriental Orthodoxy, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church fully recognized the validity of both the Saturday and Sunday Sabbath, and yet also the authority of the Scriptures which celebrate Friday/Saturday. Traditionally in Ethiopia since their own internal Sabatarian controversy was resolved in the 15th century, they have Divine Liturgy on both days, and initially it was obligatory for laity to attend BOTH days, however as of since the Saturday service has become a bit more optional.

More can be seen in "The Judaic Spirit of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church: A Case Study in Religious Acculturation" by John T. Pawlikowski

For anyone to forbid worship on Saturday as a Sabbath - and say Saturday is not Sabbath ..that's error.

However, it's equal error for another to claim worship on Sunday is not truly worship on the Sabbath according to the Lord (or claim that Jewish believers never worshiped the Lord on Sunday) - that's another issue entirely - and that is something one must always be careful of. Other Orthodox believers have spoken on the issue in-depth before - as seen here in this audio from one Orthodox resource entitled “Sabbath "vs" Sunday" (here) and IS SUNDAY THE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN SABBATH?

That said, it seems we end up fighting the wrong battles when forgetting how much of a non-issue it is to focus on not worshipping on Sunday because of it not being "Sabbath" - seeing that many have pointed out that Saturday technically becomes "Sunday" in the evening time anyhow and that one worships on Sunday regardless of whether they go to bed at 9:00pm or before 12:00am on Saturday night. And to condemn the day is foolish since Shavuot itself is on Sunday as are other things - and thus, many in zeal do things that the Lord NEVER approved of. The Festival of Firstfruits is also celebrated on Sunday and I wish others would stop this false battle as if one is either superior before the Lord compared to those worshipping the Lord on SUnday...or thinking one has arrived due to thinking/feeling that others are automatically "pagan" for doing so.

People often say "Well, they have an ignorance is bliss mindset" -but I think others simply have a mindset on glorifying CHrist/delighting in Him as He was ..and knowing that is the central thing that matters. ANd anything outside of that is true ignorance - for one can have many correct facts and still be ignorant of who the Lord is, as Christ pointed out in John 5 to the Pharisees who searched the scriptures and yet missed the Lord. To be seperatists/shun fellowship and community/encouragement in the name of "truth" is never glorifying to the Messiah - as he was willing to seek fellowship/reach out to others even when folks said he was "unclean" and "hanging with sinners" for doing so.


And again, I do think it's worthwhile pointing out that no one ultimately knows when the Seventh day was originally (as in what exact time it started and what the date for such was). Most Jewish Synagouges (and ,Messianic Jewish congregations) choose Saturday out of tradition when the reality is that there was not a concept of "Monday, Tuesday, Wensday, etc" in the Genesis account, to consider Sunday as a 7th day Sabbath is something that works out well. Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles worship on the biblical sabbath, i.e., Friday evening till Saturday. ..and technically, as the next day always begins in evening time, Saturday evening would be the beginning of Sunday....even though to others it would still be seen as Saturday till they went to bed and awoke on Sunday morning.

We have 152 occassions where the Word of God calls Saturday, the 7th day, the Sabbath..and 94 times in the Old Testament, Saturday, the Seventh day of the week, is given as the Sabbath day...while 58 times that the New Testament denotes that the Seventh day of the week as the Sabbath. Thus, one can thus lay down the general rule that the 7th day, or Saturday, was always a Sabbath under the rule of the law. Nonetheless, we must carefully read our evidence and see that while Saturday is always a Sabbath, the Sabbath does not always happen to be Saturday.

This is said because there are various other days which are established as Sabbath in the Old Testament references. In example, the Lord in Leviticus 23:24 commands the children of Israel to observe the first day of the 7th month always as a Sabbath. (i.e. On 2005, July 1 the 1st day of the 7th month was Friday, on 2006. July 1 was on Saturday, and on 2007, July 1 was on Sunday, but it is all Sabbath). In Leviticus 23:39, the 15th day of the 7th month is always to be a Sabbath. ....but the 15th days of the 7th month the following year can’t possibly on Saturday.

Moreover, Leviticus 23:47-44 shows where we have a record of a week that is to be a week of Sabbaths and that every day in these 7 will be a Sabbath day. Moreover, Leviticus 25 and II Chronicles 36 display where God’s law ordains that there shall be a Sabbath year.

Sabbath has ALWAYS been more than a day on Saturday. And even if one wishes to worship on Sunday, they would have reason to do so. Sunday was the universal day of Christian worship because it is the day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, and the Feast of Firstfruits—which is why Paul calls Jesus’ resurrection the firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20). Since it is the first day of the week, it is also the eighth day of the previous week, the day of the new creation (the allusion in 2 Corinthians 5:17). In the first century, many Christians, both Jews and gentile “God-fearers,” continued to attend synagogue instruction on the Sabbath and then attended Christian worship on Sunday.

Since the Roman week was ten days long at the time, Sunday didn’t always fall on the Roman weekend, so services were held before sunrise. When Christianity became dominant in an area, it was common for larger churches to hold worship services on all days of the week. The Sabbath is, of course, Saturday. As the Church grew and Christians came to outnumber Jews, there was talk of Sunday being like a Christian Sabbath. From there it was a short step to talk of Sunday as if it were the Sabbath.

In the long scheme of things, it's not really a subject worth going to war over since it misses the purpose of what Sabbath was about...and what one does on it. The goal is to honor the Sabbath/keep it holy. While keeping the Sabbath saves neither Gentile believers nor Messianic Jewish believers; for the Jew, just as the rainbow was the sign of the Noahic Covenant (Genesis 9:12-13) and circumcision was the signof the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 17:11), Shabbat is a special sign between God and the Israelites forever (Exodus 31:13-17; Ezekiel 20:20).

And for other places where good discussion has occurred on the variations of how others see Sabbath, one can go here or the following:

• Gods Sabbath Day
• Guidance on Sabbath arguments
• The Christian Sabbath according to the Bible - When is it?
• Sabbath: What Do You Personally Do and How Do You Observe It?

 

[from scratch]

Let me tell you why this claim is made.

All Pagan religions had some form of sun worship and the sun god was the most prominent god in many of those religions. Israel was the only nation that worshiped the true God. When Israel rebelled against God, a lot of the time they participated in sun worship.

All false worship is an invention of Satan but sun worship seems to be his favorite and remember that Lucifer means "Light bearer". The sun is the brightest form of light in our universe.

You may wonder how sun worship correlates to sunday worship. Let me say here that I am in now way saying people who worship on Sunday are worshiping the sun. That would be a very false and judgmental statement. The correlation really comes from the transition from Sabbath worship to sunday worship which was legislated by Constantine the Great in 321AD and later on by the Council of Laodicea in 364AD. Constantine who was the emperor of Rome at that time was pagan and paganism was the religion of Rome. Main day of worship for the Pagan's was sunday which was named sunday because that was the day that the sun was worshipped.

When Constantine wanted to turn the empire of Rome to a Christian religion he tried to made the transition easier. So, all of the holy days of paganism which were to honor their gods, he turned the event into a Christian even to honor a Christian symbol. Sunday was no longer the main pagan day or worship to worship the sun but now the main Christian day of worship to honour God. What we call Christmas was the day when they celebrated the rebirth of the sun god but it is not celebrated as the birth of Jesus. Easter also was about the pagan god Ishtar and originally had nothing to do with easter eggs and stuff like that.

So originally what was the devils invention has been absorbed into most branches of Christianity and this is why you would hear folks making such statements.

I can show you from scripture that it was prophesied that Christianity would become corrupted. This prophecy is found in Daniel 2. In Daniel 2 God shows Nebuchadnezzar a dream which shows a summary of the history of the world powers that shall control the world, starting from his Kingdom up until the end of time. He seems an image, composed of different materials to represent this timeline. Each material represents something. So the first Kingdom was Babylon represented by the head of gold, then Medio Persia represented by the chest and arms of silver, then Greece represented by the belly and thighs of brass and then Rome represented by the legs of iron.

There is also a material which is different from all the others. All of the previous materials were metals. This material is clay and this is where I will focus now.

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Daniel does not say what clay represents in this prophecy but we need to find out what it is to understand this. The scripture helps us here.

Isa_64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer_18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

These two scriptures show us that Potter's Clay is used as a symbol of God's people who at the time was israel. Potter's clay is pure, undefiled clay. Clay that is totally subject to the Potter. If anything is mixed with Potter's Clay it becomes Miry Clay. Now in Daniel 2:41 it started of as potter's clay and by the end of the verse it is called miry clay. So in that period, the clay has changed from being pure to being corrupt. But it is corrupted by the iron which is a symbol of Pagan Rome. The verse also says that there shall be in it the strength of the iron which means when this mixing takes place of paganism and Christianity, it is paganism that will change Christianity and not vice versa. So paganism has crept into the church and according to the prophecy, Roman Influence is going to be present until God establishes his kingdom.

I don't usually visit this section and am a bit slow in getting to your post.

I do find it interesting that your explanation is about nations down to the clay/iron feet then becomes spiritual/religious . Why the change?

 

[LarryP2]

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments seemingly at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the "ten commandments" as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The SDA argument that Constantine unilaterally destroyed the Sabbath has been forcibly disproven by their own Sabbath Expert, Samuelle Bachiochi.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

 

[maco]

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments seemingly at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the "ten commandments" as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The SDA argument that Constantine unilaterally destroyed the Sabbath has been forcibly disproven by their own Sabbath Expert, Samuelle Bachiochi.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

Man counts 613, God counts 10 and writes them with His own finger. The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger.

 

[LarryP2]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they are nowhere nears keeping the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the real deal Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament. They have no idea of how to keep the Sabbath.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest Sabbath keepers have searched out and found the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above. He did.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the Adventist culture that had developed around the 7th Day Sabbath over 150 years, honest Sabbatarians have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Keeping their sanitized process pasteurized Velveeta cheese-version of the 7th Day Sabbath just does not cut it anymore.

Furthermore, they are beginning to see the necessity of rejecting St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim "illegitimately" introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. They are presently eliminating the Pauline Epistles for precisely this reason. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their cruel system of cult bondage. It is obvious they must discredit St. Paul if they are going to keep all of the Jewish Laws, which the honest among them now do teach and attempt to practice.

But that has nothing to do with Christianity. Sabbatarians have simply started their own religion that is neither Christianity nor Judaism. It is actually a revival of the old Ebionate cult which has long been viewed as a destructive heresy by Christianity. It is in a spiritual No Man's Land.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

 

[BobRyan]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER.

There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

yet there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

 

[BobRyan]

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest .

Until you actually "read" Mark 7:6-13 where you find that the Law of Moses is called by Christ "the WORD of God" and the "Commandment of God"

and until you "read" 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

and until you read in 1John 5:1-4 that the saints are "KEEPING the Commandments of God"

and until you read in Eph 6:1-2 that the TEN Commandments are given as a single unit of binding authority for NT saints of which the 5th commandment is "the FIRST commandment with a promise".

Of course in Rom 8:6-8 the lost are said to be at war with the Commandments of God - so "yes" we do notice that.

These are details so incredibly obvious even the following Sunday promoting sources admit to the continued binding authority of the TEN commandments on Christians - so not just Saturday Sabbath keeping Christians admitting to this obvious Bible doctrine)..

 

[from scratch]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they are nowhere nears keeping the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the real deal Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament. They have no idea of how to keep the Sabbath.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest Sabbath keepers have searched out and found the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above. He did.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the Adventist culture that had developed around the 7th Day Sabbath over 150 years, honest Sabbatarians have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Keeping their sanitized process pasteurized Velveeta cheese-version of the 7th Day Sabbath just does not cut it anymore.

Furthermore, they are beginning to see the necessity of rejecting St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim "illegitimately" introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. They are presently eliminating the Pauline Epistles for precisely this reason. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their cruel system of cult bondage. It is obvious they must discredit St. Paul if they are going to keep all of the Jewish Laws, which the honest among them now do teach and attempt to practice.

But that has nothing to do with Christianity. Sabbatarians have simply started their own religion that is neither Christianity nor Judaism. It is actually a revival of the old Ebionate cult which has long been viewed as a destructive heresy by Christianity. It is in a spiritual No Man's Land.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

They quote my friend Paul here all the time taking him out of context.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath belongs to the Old Covenant and the people of the Old Covenant:

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

The Old Covenant is over (Heb. 8:13), .

The Sabbath belongs to "mankind" Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" and was "MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 -

And of course the Jews were part of "mankind" even in the OT as it turns out. This seems to surprise some people - apparently

Heb 8 says that the same Jer 31:31-33 "LAW of GOD" is "written on the heart and mind" even in the NT -- under the New Covenant. So then the lost remain at war with the Law of God (as Paul reminds us in Rom 8:6-8) but the saints are in harmony with it.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

But not all are shocked by this Bible truth. The following Sunday-promoting sources freely admit to it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

The Sabbath belongs to "mankind" Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" and was "MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 -

And of course the Jews were part of "mankind" even in the OT as it turns out. This seems to surprise some people - apparently

Heb 8 says that the same Jer 31:31-33 "LAW of GOD" is "written on the heart and mind" even in the NT -- under the New Covenant. So then the lost remain at war with the Law of God (as Paul reminds us in Rom 8:6-8) but the saints are in harmony with it.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

But not all are shocked by this Bible truth. The following Sunday-promoting sources freely admit to it.

in Christ,

Bob

I know that you believe this. That simply doesn't twist it into the truth.

In using 1 Cor 7:19 in the manner you do by passes the need of the Savior, Jesus the Christ.

 

[LarryP2]

Modern Sabbatarians THINK are actually keeping the Sabbath. They CLAIM they are. They really want the rest of us to BELIEVE their claims, as though we are supposed to not think of how ridiculous and absurd they are.

But they are not. They are not even CLOSE to keeping it. And at the same time, their cultish Ebionite Heresy drives them to imagine themselves superior to other Christians who worship the Resurrected Christ instead of their dead special Jewish.

Modern Sabbatarians are similar to an adolescent that fantasizes they are a brilliant General because they have watched a war movie. The "Sabbath" that Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping is a hilarious, Americanized Processed Cheese Product version of the Sabbath. It bears NO resemblance to the Real Thing. American protestant "Sabbath Keepers" resemble someone that thinks Pizza Hut serves Italian food, or that Doritos are genuine Mexican food.

Christians who worship on Sunday have abandoned the laughably-absurd delusion that ANYBODY who is not a Jew is keeping the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Modern Sabbatarians THINK are actually keeping the Sabbath. They CLAIM they are. They really want the rest of us to BELIEVE their claims.

Hint: ALL the pro-Sunday sources listed below "claim" to keep the 4th commandment.

But as we all knew "the Seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" Ex 20:11.

 

[BobRyan]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here)

 

[LarryP2]

You can argue for a Sabbath keeping requirement all you want, but you don't keep it now nor have you ever kept it.

Neither one of us keep the Sabbath. I am honest enough to admit I don't.

 

[maco]

Neither one of us keep the Sabbath. I am honest enough to admit I don't.

But do you honor the seventh day just for the fact that God blessed it, sanctified and called it holy? Why not, Jesus did and the early church did. Why Sunday? There is not one verse that says Sunday is holy, blessed or sanctified yet there are hundreds of verses that say the seventh day is to be holy unto the Lord. Jesus is even called Lord of the Sabbath. So what's your excuse for Sunday? Chapter and verse please.

Do you need a Law with its threat of punishment?

 

[LarryP2]

The early church NEVER kept Sabbath as a requirement, and Gentile Christians were prohibited from keeping it. You got your history wrong.

 

[maco]

The early church NEVER kept Sabbath as a requirement, and Gentile Christians were prohibited from keeping it. You got your history wrong.

Somehow I feel you got nothing. It's not too late to repent...

 

[LarryP2]

You have been avoiding Colossians 2:14-17 for a long time. I am afraid you are just trying to wiggle your way out. That is the Christian requirement, in a few words.