If LFW is true, how does sanctification work?

[janxharris]

But you do believe that it's unfair that he chooses to save just some, right?

Not if salvation is conditional.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[Near]

God foreknows rather than foredetermines.

1 Samuel 23:7-13
Saul was told that David had gone to Keilah, and he said, “God has delivered him into my hands, for David has imprisoned himself by entering a town with gates and bars.” And Saul called up all his forces for battle, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men. When David learned that Saul was plotting against him, he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod.” David said, “Lord, God of Israel, your servant has heard definitely that Saul plans to come to Keilah and destroy the town on account of me. Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me to him? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? Lord, God of Israel, tell your servant.” And the Lord said, “He will.” Again David asked, “Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?” And the Lord said, “They will.” So David and his men, about six hundred in number, left Keilah and kept moving from place to place. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he did not go there.

... You dont understand

He determines reality to exist, correct?

If yes, determinism is true.

 

[janxharris]

... You dont understand

He determines reality to exist, correct?

If yes, determinism is true.

God created reality yes. I also believe that contrary choice was integral in that creation.

 

[Near]

God created reality yes. I also believe that contrary choice was integral in that creation.

What do you mean, "contrary choice"?

Furthermore, my point was since God determines that this reality exist, determinism is true.

 

[janxharris]

What do you mean, "contrary choice"?

Furthermore, my point was since God determines that this reality exist, determinism is true.

Contrary choice is the ability to choose against our desires and nature.

I still don't see any worth in creation if it is predetermined. Could you show me otherwise?

 

[janxharris]

Then you've been listening to some very dumb people.

If faith is a gift from God exclusively to the elect, and not everyone is elect, then there are some people that have no access to salvation.

Do you assent to this view?

 

[Near]

Contrary choice is the ability to choose against our desires and nature.

I still don't see any worth in creation if it is predetermined. Could you show me otherwise?

Hmm, contrary choice exists in my version of determinism.

Ex. I used to have the desire to sin a certain sin, but I also desired to cease my sin. I choose contrary my desire to sin, and ceased that sin. As for nature, I was as by nature a child of wrath, accustomed to evil, yet by grace, I learned to deny myself and follow Christ.

Reality is predetermined. It is of worth in the eyes of the beholder.
"Worth" is not a very debatable subject, it's subjective.

Regardless, a determinism which includes free-will choices, as to say, man's choices originate from him, not God, would be a more "worthy" reality, correct?

God foresees the freewill choices of man, and God determines reality to exist as the way he chooses, which includes all the planets moving, and the people choosing by their freewill to do things they will choose to do. All the while, God is in control due to the fact that he chooses to actualize the reality in motion, regardless of free-will or the lack of it.

Free-will determinism.
^my view.

 

[Hammster]

So why bother with creation in the first place? What beauty, what value is there in such a creation?

Whatever He does is for His glory. That's why He bothered.

 

[Hammster]

Not if salvation is conditional.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

But in your view, He's obligated to try and save everyone. If not, He's not fair, even though nobody deserves it.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Contrary choice is the ability to choose against our desires and nature.

Can you give me one example of anyone, anywhere, who made a choice against their desire or nature please?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

But in your view, He's obligated to try and save everyone. If not, He's not fair, even though nobody deserves it.

This is a false assumption under synergism. Throughout the Bible, God repeatedly tells man what he must do to be saved. He is fair to all, as He gives all the opportunity obey and heed His words of salvation.

Jesus said to love God and your neighbor in order to inherit eternal life. The onus, therefore, falls upon man whether he chooses to obey or not. Man is obligated to obey if he desires to be saved.

Then when man desires, chooses, and obeys in order to be saved, God determines or purposes how He will deal with him (Zechariah. 1:6).

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Can you give me one example of anyone, anywhere, who made a choice against their desire or nature please?

Mankind, every day, choose against their nature or desire.

The first example is Adam, who had no sin nature, chose to sin against his sinless nature.

Anyone, who is regenerated with a new nature, chooses to fall back to his old nature and willingly sins.

The unregenerate, who, have only a sin nature, often chooses to tell the truth instead of lying, remains faithful in their marriage instead of committing adultery, and remain sober instead of choosing drunkenness.

Some days, I have no desire to go in to work, yet, against this desire, I choose to go anyway.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

... You dont understand

He determines reality to exist, correct?

If yes, determinism is true.

Determinism, when dealing with man, is according to man's way and deeds.

Zechariah 1:6
...‘Just as the Lord of hosts determined to do to us, according to our ways and
according to our deeds, so He has dealt with us.’

 

[crimsonleaf]

Mankind, every day, choose against their nature or desire.

The first example is Adam, who had no sin nature, chose to sin against his sinless nature.

Anyone, who is regenerated with a new nature, chooses to fall back to his old nature and willingly sins.

The unregenerate, who, have only a sin nature, often chooses to tell the truth instead of lying, remains faithful in their marriage instead of committing adultery, and remain sober instead of choosing drunkenness.

Some days, I have no desire to go in to work, yet, against this desire, I choose to go anyway.

Everything you've just mentioned is either the result of nature or desire. If you go to work you go because you desire to, presumably because the option of having no money or status is unattractive to you.

Adam sinned because he desired to.

Anyone who is regenerate and sins does so because he desires to, unless you're denying free will and think man has no choice?

As for your comment on the unregenerate, it is truly laughable. It is Calvinist doctrine that fallen man is usually not as bad as he could be. Besides, even if it was against fallen man's nature to stay sober and faithful (which it isn't) then he does so out of desire.

You seem to not understand what we mean by total depravity, you don't seem to understand "desire" and I'm pretty sure you don't know what man's nature is. In all, a poor response.

 

[Hammster]

This is a false assumption under synergism. Throughout the Bible, God repeatedly tells man what he must do to be saved. He is fair to all, as He gives all the opportunity obey and heed His words of salvation.

Jesus said to love God and your neighbor in order to inherit eternal life. The onus, therefore, falls upon man whether he chooses to obey or not. Man is obligated to obey if he desires to be saved.

Then when man desires, chooses, and obeys in order to be saved, God determines or purposes how He will deal with him (Zechariah. 1:6).

So in your view, God isn't trying to save anyone.

That's different.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You've demonstrated that context isn't important to you in scripture. I guess it isn't in forum discussions, either.

I've done no such thing. Context is king for understanding Scripture.

 

[Hammster]

Mankind, every day, choose against their nature or desire.

The first example is Adam, who had no sin nature, chose to sin against his sinless nature.

Anyone, who is regenerated with a new nature, chooses to fall back to his old nature and willingly sins.

The unregenerate, who, have only a sin nature, often chooses to tell the truth instead of lying, remains faithful in their marriage instead of committing adultery, and remain sober instead of choosing drunkenness.

Some days, I have no desire to go in to work, yet, against this desire, I choose to go anyway.

Why do you go if you have no desire to?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Eh? You accept OSAS but reject preservation???

I think you may have misread my post. I said "perseverance", not preservation. For me OSAS is preservation. God always preserves His children.

But perseverance is commanded of believers for this life. It isn't automatic nor guaranteed, contrary to the Calvinist doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.

There are many examples in Scripture of believers who ended very poorly.

Hope that helps.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If a person wants to believe, he can.

Even when God didn't choose him to believe, per your own view??

The only way a person is a "seeker" is by the regenerating grace of God.

What part of Acts 17;26-27 do you find that part?
26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us

 

[Hammster]

I've done no such thing. Context is king for understanding Scripture.

Well, with the way you handle verses like Titus 2:11 and Hebrews 2:9, it doesn't appear that you obey the king.