Do you think the Pope is tiptoeing Eastcoast?
I think he is floating ideas and being vague. Not necessarily a bad thing but time will tell.
I just prefer people being upfront. remember Howard Cosell ? "Just tell it like it is"
Upvote
0
Do you think the Pope is tiptoeing Eastcoast?
Or perhaps he's just saying reminding Catholics that there's more to their faith than opposing abortion, contraception, and homosexuality. Honestly, I don't see any difference between what he's saying and the established doctrine.I think he is floating ideas and being vague. Not necessarily a bad thing but time will tell.
I just prefer people being upfront. remember Howard Cosell ? "Just tell it like it is"
Fair enough. It might have been useful to include this from the start, no? To me, "reformed Catholic" could mean any of a wide variety of things. Of course, we don't know the whole story - perhaps he left the Church after his daughter was denied baptism, or maybe he's been considering a return to the faith. I fail to see why else someone outside the Church might want their daughter baptized Catholic.
But still, I don't see how this might signal that people think dogmatic change might be coming. The Pope didn't say anything about interfaith cooperation - the big deal has been his statements on homosexuality/contraception/abortion, none of which really applies in this situation. Still seems like some liberal priests being liberal. That's not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion, though in this case it seems more like a hasty response to their sexuality, which is inappropriate.
To me, "reformed Catholic" could mean any of a wide variety of things. Of course, we don't know the whole story - perhaps he left the Church after his daughter was denied baptism, or maybe he's been considering a return to the faith.
Or perhaps he's just saying reminding Catholics that there's more to their faith than opposing abortion, contraception, and homosexuality. Honestly, I don't see any difference between what he's saying and the established doctrine.
Or perhaps he's just saying reminding Catholics that there's more to their faith than opposing abortion, contraception, and homosexuality. Honestly, I don't see any difference between what he's saying and the established doctrine.
I pledge my alegiance to Christ's Church, to Pope Francis, and to the Bishhop's Council given to teach us. I will not pick and choose. I will not be a cafeteria Catholic. I will call for the elimination of nuclear weapons, I will advocate for stronger gun control laws in the US, I will oppose abortion in all circumstances, I will advocate for the poor and support their right to health care, education and social mobility, I will judge myself harder than I judge others, I will strive to be a good steward and so on and so forth. Is there anyone out there who's with me? It matters little, I'm okay with going it alone....but a little company would be nice.
That's quite the cynical view. While he may have no intention of living as a celibate gay man, that doesn't mean that he is incapable of raising his daughter to be a good Catholic. Would you deny baptism to the child of an unmarried heterosexual couple with no plans to marry? Their lifestyle is sinful and they clearly have no plans to change it.I felt the caller was being disingenuous. He has no intentions of changing his lifestyle and feels a level of animosity toward the church but yet wants to baptize his daughter in the church. There seems to be a bit missing.
And how many people die every year due to causes stemming from poverty? How many starve? No one is trivializing abortion, but there are bigger problems in our world that always seem to get pushed to the side in favor of more politically expedient issues such as abortion.If the church agrees that abortion is the taking of a life and there were over 300,000 abortion in the US in 2013, then to trivialize that would be an even graver sin. Just my thought and I am sticking with it.
That's quite the cynical view. While he may have no intention of living as a celibate gay man, that doesn't mean that he is incapable of raising his daughter to be a good Catholic. Would you deny baptism to the child of an unmarried heterosexual couple with no plans to marry? Their lifestyle is sinful and they clearly have no plans to change it.
And how many people die every year due to causes stemming from poverty? How many starve? No one is trivializing abortion, but there are bigger problems in our world that always seem to get pushed to the side in favor of more politically expedient issues such as abortion.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.
Yes I prefer it that way myself. I get frustrated at times as well but I'm thinking he is taking on the role of evangelist. It would be nice if all Catholic clergy were more direct though. As you said, time will tell.I think he is floating ideas and being vague. Not necessarily a bad thing but time will tell.
I just prefer people being upfront. remember Howard Cosell ? "Just tell it like it is"
You may not have directly called for exclusion, but you definitely seemed opposed.If you read my earlier post, I never called for the exclusion of his daughters baptism. I just think often that we forget the scripture.
Isn't part of baptism the promise to bring a child up as a Catholic?
The first one is a valid reason to refuse baptism, but honestly, I can't see why he would want to baptize her Catholic if he has no desire to return to the Church. The second is totally invalid unless you'd also deny baptism to the child of an unwed couple that plans to remain unmarried. They're more or less the same situation.I felt the caller was being disingenuous. He has no intentions of changing his lifestyle and feels a level of animosity toward the church but yet wants to baptize his daughter in the church. There seems to be a bit missing.
Agreed, but no one is perfect, and honestly, I think that the man and his partner could still be fine examples of love for their daughter. If they've taken the step of adopting, they're obviously in a committed monogamous relationship, which is already better than a significant percentage of parents out there.I think the greatest gift he could give his daughter, is to be the example he asks the church to be.
the scripture above is the hardest for all of us to adhere to. it seems so simple in word but in reality it is tough. But we must be try.
You may not have directly called for exclusion, but you definitely seemed opposed.
To recall:
The first one is a valid reason to refuse baptism, but honestly, I can't see why he would want to baptize her Catholic if he has no desire to return to the Church. The second is totally invalid unless you'd also deny baptism to the child of an unwed couple that plans to remain unmarried. They're more or less the same situation.
Agreed, but no one is perfect, and honestly, I think that the man and his partner could still be fine examples of love for their daughter. If they've taken the step of adopting, they're obviously in a committed monogamous relationship, which is already better than a significant percentage of parents out there.
Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and
Trial balloon? That is how I took his statements.
Tonight I listened to a Boston talk show by host Dan Rea. Massachusetts is a predominately Catholic state. The phones were buzzing. Dan is a Catholic and to show how the Pope's statements are reverberating around the city, guests were calling and venting that it is about time. Most viewed the Popes statements as a predecessor as to what is to come.
A lot of callers are still angry with the church.
One guest called and stated that he left the church after he came out of the closet at age 21. That was 30 years ago. He has a partner with whom he lives with and they have a daughter. He was hurt that a priest refused to baptize their daughter 'his claim" and made it clear that he considers himself a "reformed Catholic" Which is usually said as a pejorative.
So Dan Rea put out a request for a priest to call , who was willing to baptize her. within 10 minutes a Priest called and the baptism is going to happen. Another priest called but he was from out of state and he agreed also.
What i got from the show from listening to the guest's including the priest, was that most took the Popes statements the same as I did.
I may be wrong, but I feel the pope needs to stop talking circular with veiled comments and state his positions. I am not sure why Popes and politicians talk in such vague terms. They need to be more direct.
This pope said something to the effect if we do not stop already thinking abortion, gay marrigae and contraceptives is all that it is to be Catholic that the Church is going to run everybody off. Well guess what? Day late, dollar short on that one. He needs to tell us something we don't already know.
From what i read - he said everything there is to say has been said.Seems to have gone viral now, trending on most media.
I will submit, if it wasn't for Po-life advocates and their tireless work, we would not see the pro-abprtion crowd on their heels, like we have seen recently.
I have noticed a trend by the Pontiff where he makes veiled comments designed in my opinion to set the table in the future for big changes.
I am not a Rad-Trad as most here know but I find some disturbing trends via comments by the Pope.
What say ye?
What makes you say that? There's only one english translation of the interview that I'm aware of, and it was done by the Jesuits for publication in their American magazine. Those words have certainly been misinterpreted and sensationalized by the media, but the translation itself is correct.As we see - the English translations seem so grossly distorted it has to frustrate him immensely.
honestly, I can't see why he would want to baptize her Catholic if he has no desire to return to the Church.
Agreed, but no one is perfect, and honestly, I think that the man and his partner could still be fine examples of love for their daughter. If they've taken the step of adopting, they're obviously in a committed monogamous relationship, which is already better than a significant percentage of parents out there.