Messianic Jewboy
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It's a midrash. Paul is applying Hosea to those that aren't children of Israel.
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Are Gentiles Now a Chosen Royal Priesthood?
- Thread starter HannibalFlavius
- Start date
It's a midrash. Paul is applying Hosea to those that aren't children of Israel.
That's what I am saying--Paul giving a long speech saying that gentiles are grafted in through the promise spoken to the lost Ephraim.
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So I kinda ran out of time to finish the entire thing because my lunch break is almost over but may I ask Hannibal are you saying the royal priesthood is only people belonging to the tribes of Israel and not Gentiles, or both are included? I enjoy this topic and would love to see what a MJ brother in Christ views it.
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Yes, there are no more Greeks, jews or gentiles of the old testament. There are only the true Jews of the New Testament which are those who worship and believe in the Lord Jesus. They are the true Jews and Gods chosen...only those because God only has one chosen people, there are no others. Only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only those who've always believed in the Promise/Jesus and when they saw Him recognized Him as such.
Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 speak of the false jews who have robbed Gods children of their true title and what He plans on doing to them and their synagogues.
Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 speak of the false jews who have robbed Gods children of their true title and what He plans on doing to them and their synagogues.
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I am saying that Paul taught that gentiles are grafted through the promise spoken to the ten tribes of Israel in Hosea.
These ten tribes became gentiles and God ended their kindom and sent them into the nations.
But a promise was made to these gentiles of Israel, that they would be as the sands of the seas, and in the place God said to them,'' You are not my people, it will be said to them, you are the sons of the living God.
Jesus fulfilled this promise to Ephraim when those who sat in darkness in the land of Naphtali and Zebulun, in galilee of the nations, a light has shined.
These gentiles from the land of the ten lost tribes were added into Israel in order to make the two people, one man.
It wasn't that Jesus turned from Judah and then turned to gentiles, it was that Jesus turned to the other kingdom which happened to be gentiles, including ALL gentiles and Paul explains this in Romans 9:24, just as Peter 2;10 Explains the same thing.
THE GREAT MYSTERY of how gentiles become one man with Jews, and as such, ARE a Royal nation, a chosen race, God's own special people.
But this is to say that the gentile must act accordingly and gentiles did act accordingly in those days and Ephraim was briefly found.
But this new Ephraim did exactly what the first Ephraim had done, they invented their own festivals, rejected Jerusalem, chose their own prioests and rejected God's law.
Some people in here think the Samaritans have something to do with the ten tribes but this is obviously, and clearly false because we have 700 years at looking at these liars.
Ezra 4---These so called New Israelites{Not} wanted to help Zerrubabel build the Temple but the Jews and the governor and the priests knew these people were not Israel although they lied about it for 700 years, and till this day.
Ezra 4:2 They came to Zerrubabel and the heads of the father's houses, and said to them, '' Let us build with you, for we seek your God as you do; and we have sacrificed to him{not in Jerusalem} since the days of Esarhadden king of Assyria, WHO BROUGHT US HERE>
Josephus Flavius also details the many times these liars claimed to be of Israel, but then they would claim to be Babylonians displaced by the king of Assyria.
They were liars, and in the days of Jesus, they were bitter enemies because of this ancient lie.
700 years of history of these liars do not lie.
We even have the story of these liars when Alexander the great came to Judah.
They converted to the religion of the ten tribes and they thought this made them a Jew.
sound familiar?
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God is going to do for Jews what he hasn't promised any other people in history.
He is going to take ungodliness away from them himself because they bear his name.
He is going to make these unbelievers as kings upon this Earth and the kings of nations will come bowing before their feet.
These unbelieving Jews will watch as the wealth of the nations is brought to them because Zechariah says that God will come to Judah first.
The gentile has an opportunity to become as a Jew, or he can remain as a gentile, and as a gentile he can involve himself in Paganism to the point he looks nothing like a Jew.
He looks nothing like a Jew because he is not a Jew just because he says,'' Jesus, Jesus.''
Many people will come saying,'' But we did miracles in your name, we taught your name in the streets.'' But it will be said to those gentiles,'' I do not know you.''
God will choose Jerusalem again, and he will destroy everyone who fight against these Jews who currently do not believe in Christ.
The weakest among them will be as David and the house of the Jews will be as God, as the angel of the Lord.
He will exalt and magnify his people and the whole world will know that who God's people are.
The world will tremble at just the mention of Judah.
In Jesus day, Gentiles went to their death because they refused to keep the Easter and Christmas, they chose the Passover alone, and they were killed for it.
They stopped being Pagan and they looked so much like Jews that they also had to pay a Jewish tax.
These gentiles went to synagogues with Jews for 100 years after Jesus died until Rome and some of the Jews found a way to separate the gentile from the Jewish synagogue services.
So the gentile Christians made a deal to accept the saturnalia and this saved their lives.
These pagan Christians began to persecute and kill gentile Christian converts of the circumcision church of Jerusalem, Jesus church.
Then laws were made for gentiles to stay away from all of God's worship system, they were no longer Israel, no longer brother of Jew.
No longer were the two , one.
We wait for the return of the prodigal Christian nation.
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Ok I think I see what you are saying, so my question is what must the prodigal Christian do to come back?
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- Jan 25, 2009
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Indeed..
I Peter was addressed to Christians in "Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" (I Peter 1:1). This would seem to include most of Asia Minor (modern Turkey), although Peter may have used the terms in a more restricted sense. Believers in those areas were suffering persecution for their faith (I Peter 1:6, I Peter 4:12-19, I Peter 5:9-10, etc)...and Peter described his recipients as God's elect in Diaspora (I Peter 1:1)....terms normally reserved for Jews.
In regards to the term "strangers" used in I Peter 1:1, in this context it refers to people in lowly conditions, those who reside in an area without the legal protection and rights provided to citizens who stay in one place for only a brief time. The Christians of Asia Minor were considered strangers either because (1) they were from already marginalized social castes or (2) by becoming Christians they were joining a disenfranchised group. Jewish and Gentile Christians were scattered throughout much of Asia Minor...and people from this area were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost (see the note on Act 2:9-11)...and Paul preached/taught in some of these provinces.
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joeboonda
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I voted no. From my (christian) view, anyone who has trusted Christ, whether Jew, Gentile, Samaritan, or whoever, is God's child, hence a prince or princess in God's royal family.
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No.
The covenants are for two peoples, if you do not fall under one of them, you have no covenant!
Tell me about your covenant,' I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah.''
''Then Ephraim and Judah will appoint one shepherd.''
'' The law will be written upon their hearts.''
These covenants are made for Judah and Ephraim and nobody else.
Romans 9:24 in speaking of gentiles quotes a promise given to a future restoration of the lost kingdom of Ephraim.
This promise quotes Hosea saying,'' Not my people have become my people.''
'' the ones who received no mercy has been shown mercy,''
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
We see Paul explaining this saying,'' What if God wanted to show.....''
And then Paul explains how gentiles have come under the promise given to the lost Ephraim, Paul also mentions the 7000 reserved and this is speaking of Northern Israel alone, his whole speech is about the rejection of the northern kingdom known as Ephraim.
God completely did away with them save 7000 men.
But the promise to this lost Ephraim who became gentiles is that their numbers and the sheer magnitude of multitudes of people will be as the sands of the sea, much greater than that of Judah.
God achieved this through the mystery Paul teaches about.
The fullness of gentiles must come through Ephraim and become as Israelites.
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
This mystery was kept from the world.
Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
He purposed a mystery within himself that his body would be made of two men.,.
Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
''Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Ephesians 2
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Making good on the promise that Judah and Ephraim would become one man and appoint one shepherd under the mystery by ten tribes mixing into all the nations, gave hope to all gentiles.
To become under the covenant as Ephraim or Judah, there is no covenant for anyone else.
1 Peter 2
King James Version (KJV)
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation
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That's basic understanding and to be simple is a gift of Christ, but the details are much more involved, and you have to have a way to be included in the covenant as a gentile and how is this done?
You were redeemed through Marriage because this is the promise spoken to Ephraim when God would draw them back.
So Christians say they are the bride of Christ, but this to is to fall under this same promise that God redeems Ephraim through marriage.
''Not my people become my people is only spoken to Ephraim, no gentile can claim it without realizing to whom the prophecy is for.
I mean that to truly become Ephraim, you must comply what is asked of Ephraim when you leave your idols behind, when you stop calling the Torah a strange thing and you convert to the feasts of God, doing away with all Pagan origins, and to love your brother the Jew. To stand loyal to him, come what may.
This is to be found in Israel as a gentile.
'
Gentiles who spend their own money bringing the Jew back to their land are given a special reward, God says he will take some of them as Levites.
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joeboonda
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I enjoy your insights. I understand I have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. As far as the other, I don't worship idols and am not pagan. I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I love the Holy Torah- both the Law and the Prophets, and the Psalms. I love God's chosen people, the Jews, from whom the promised Saviour came. I pray for the peace of Jerusalem and Israel and for all Jews everywhere and those who are trying to return to the Promised Land. I would pick up a rifle to defend Israel. I believe the feasts and ceremonial sacrifices will happen during the Millennial Reign of Messiah, although I do not judge others in respect to feast or holy days.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2
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joeboonda
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Mainly, I was just voting that not all gentiles are in God's family, only those who have trusted Christ. But that's from a Christian perspective and I don't want to cause friction or argue about anything and I want to respect the section we are talking in.
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Near
In Christ we rise
Hmm, im of sephardic Jewish descent on my mom's side, and I keep torah, but I think the guy does have a point, but he's wrong about "Judaism" being obsolete if by that he means the law is gone.
In Messiah, we are one people, and not separate parties, jews sitting on one side of the hall, gentiles on the other. By that though I merely mean what their DNA is. So, gentiles in a way, cease to be gentiles when following the Messiah, they're "grafted in" right?
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David Ben Yosef
Foundation In Torah
You have answered your own question immediately...
Gentiles are not a race, or a nation.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Yes, through Moshiach believing gentiles have been grafted in to the natural olive tree. It is the gentiles that go through a change, not the Jews. Gentiles become one with them, and thus, through them gentiles receive their nourishment from the Root, Yeshua.
As far as that other poster goes, CF rules state that if one is not a "true member" of any faith group or denomination, they are not allowed to come into that forum and teach/debate against that group's commonly held doctrines.
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Scripture says believing Gentiles are grafted in. They are adopted. Does one make a difference between a natural child and an adopted one?
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My understanding is that when the Jews of the OT were lost, they were lost forever, never to be found again and the only way *they will be brought back* into the New Covenant is by and through Jesus/Yeshua.
It's also my understanding that ALL Unbelievers fall into the category of "the lost tribes" after the catching away (yes, I believe in the pre-trib rapture", there's too much biblical evidence of it not to believe it.
God said "no flesh and blood shall inherit the kingdom of heaven". I believe this. There are no matrilineal links that lead any one back to any of the lost tribes, no matter what they claim, that is a false lie. God would never recognize such a thing as this.
Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, clearly state how God feels about those parading as His chosen who reject Yeshua and what He plans on doing to them because of this ancient and huge lie that the world has come to believe.
Paul tells us that "he is a Jew who is one inwardly by the circumcision of the heart. Those are the chosen and true Jews by having Gods Law/Ten commandments written upon their hearts. Those outward jews are not a true jew who by circumcision of the flesh who attempt to put on the garments of the true chosen of God, true Jews. God is going to destroy their synagogues and make them bow down to the feet of His true Chosen ones. God said He would make them know by this that He has always loved only those who believe in and worship His Son Yeshua.
The true Jews are those representative of the ones who always believed in the Promise/Jesus/Yeshua and when they saw Him, recognized Him and worshiped Him as such.
So it is my understanding that all those left after the spiritual church of our Lord is taken out of the way are those who are still lost and will be brought back into the true Vine through the *sorting out*. Everyone is passing under the *rod* of God as we speak and being sorted out from amongst the world...what will come out as a result of this will be the TRUE JEWS/TRUE BELEIVERS in the Lord Yeshua. This is the only way they will be brought back into the True Vine/Yeshua.
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