Those who denounce Paul

[from scratch]

Luke wasn't a disciple of Christ. He was an employee of Paul.

Then who is the Theophilus that Luke addresses in both letters? If Luke is an employee of Paul why are his letters addressed to someone else. My thinking is Luke was commissioned by Theopilus.

 

[ananda]

Since you don't seem to like the Christian cannon why are you here?

I love the Christian canon. It just happens that my Christian canon (and the Catholic, Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. canons) are apparently different than your Christian canon.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by netzarim

Let's just say that our divergent views are dependent on our divergent canons.
​

Originally Posted by from scratch

Since you don't seem to like the Christian cannon why are you here?
​

I love the Christian canon. It just happens that my Christian canon (and the Catholic, Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. canons) are apparently different than your Christian canon.

Which books of the Bible does your Christian canon consist of? Just curious.....




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[LittleLambofJesus]

Btw, did anyone see this post on another thread concerning Paul being possessed by a demon?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7770292/#post64131188
What Gospel did Paul preach

Originally Posted by Lovely Jar

Paul was misled and possessed by a demon. Not by Jesus.
​

Jesus said if anyone comes to you and claims to be sent by him, performs signs and miracles, etc... do not believe them.

That should be it for the Christian. Jesus said it! But Paul follows the exact pattern that Jesus warned not to believe.
​

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[Standing Up]

I love the Christian canon. It just happens that my Christian canon (and the Catholic, Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. canons) are apparently different than your Christian canon.

Yes they disagree over the OT.

All of those groups (RC, EO, OO, P), however, agree on the same New Testament Canon of 27 books.

That is the difference between them and you. Your NT is about maybe 3 books?

 

[from scratch]

I love the Christian canon. It just happens that my Christian canon (and the Catholic, Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. canons) are apparently different than your Christian canon.

We note here that you think that which you proclaim to love is full of untruths. Which begs the question then do you love the lie?

Ah I see it is your cannon you love and not the Christian cannon.

 

[from scratch]

Btw, did anyone see this post on another thread concerning Paul being possessed by a demon?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7770292/#post64131188
What Gospel did Paul preach

Question - would that be opening Pandora's box? I'm limited on time.

 

[Frogster]

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[Messy]

It doesn't surprise me some jews don't like Paul. They didn't like him then too and he was sent to the gentiles.
I love the letters of Paul, I love Romans 8 about the new nature and being lead by the Spirit and Romans 13:
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It doesn't surprise me some jews don't like Paul. They didn't like him then too and he was sent to the gentiles.
I love the letters of Paul, I love Romans 8 about the new nature and being lead by the Spirit and Romans 13:

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

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Me too

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825-10/#post54839383
LLOJ's Book of Romans verse by verse

Romans Chapter 13


A few variances in the greek texts for this verse.

#5021 used 8 times in 8 verses according to KJV Concordance [W-H adds Matt 8:9].

Used 2 times in Gospels [1 each in Matt 28/Luke 7], 4 times Acts, 1 each in Romans 13/1 Corin 16.

Some bible versions leave out "authorities" in the latter part of this verse [NASB] as does 1 of the greek texts.

Rendered as "appointed/ordained/established" in bible versions.

Romans 13:1 Every soul, to authorities being superior, let be being subject!
For not is being authority except *from God. Those yet being under *authorities* *the* God having been set/tetagmenai <5021> (5772) they are.

Textus Rec.) Romans 13:1 pasa yuch exousiaiV uperecousaiV upotassesqw ou gar estin exousia ei mh apo qeou ai de ousai *exousiai* upo *tou* qeou tetagmenai eisin

Strong's Number G5021 matches the Greek &#964;&#8049;&#963;&#963;&#969; (tass&#333;), which occurs 8 times in 8 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

5021. tasso tas'-so a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):--addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.

NKJV) Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

NASB) Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

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[ananda]

Yes they disagree over the OT. All of those groups (RC, EO, OO, P), however, agree on the same New Testament Canon of 27 books.

I thought you saw it all as "God's Word"? So why divide the OT from the NT for the purpose of this discussion? I recognize no division between the so-called "OT" and the "NT". My point is, there are disagreements over the canon of the Bible when viewed as a whole.

The Ethiopian Orthodox, consisting of 45 million believers in the world, has a Bible canon of 81 books, a much broader canon than the Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants. The Eastern Orthodox, in turn, has a broader canon than the Catholics and Protestants. The Catholics has a broader canon than the Protestants. The Protestants has a broader canon than my canon.

That is the difference between them and you. Your NT is about maybe 3 books?

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. In truth, my whole canon consists of 33 books according to the Hebrew reckoning. Nine of those are the Messianic writings (which you consider "NT" books): Matthew, John, Revelation, 1-3 John, 1-2 Peter, James, Jude, Luke-Acts, and Mark.

 

[ananda]

We note here that you think that which you proclaim to love is full of untruths. Which begs the question then do you love the lie? Ah I see it is your cannon you love and not the Christian cannon.

Those questions cannot be answered until this is answered first: Which is the authoritative "Christian canon"?

 

[ananda]

It doesn't surprise me some jews don't like Paul. They didn't like him then too and he was sent to the gentiles ...

The 11/12 Jewish apostles were sent to the Gentiles by Messiah (see Mt 28:18-20), and He commanded them to teach the Gentiles to observe everything He taught them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch

We note here that you think that which you proclaim to love is full of untruths. Which begs the question then do you love the lie? Ah I see it is your cannon you love and not the Christian cannon.
​

Those questions cannot be answered until this is answered first: Which is the authoritative "Christian canon"?

Which one do you view as the most authoritive?


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[ananda]

Which one do you view as the most authoritive?.

That was my question to everyone, since you have all apparently already decided that my canon is wrong. I believe in my canon.

What other canons are wrong? The Ethiopian canon? The Orthodox canon? The Catholic canon? The Protestant canon? Luther's canon? Marcion's canon? The Assyrian canon? The Georgian Orthodox canon? The Ebionite canon? Origen's canon? Athanasius' canon?

"Which is the correct, authoritative canon?" That's one question I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on this site.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That was my question to everyone, since you have all apparently already decided that my canon is wrong. I believe in my canon.

What other canons are wrong? The Ethiopian canon? The Orthodox canon? The Catholic canon? The Protestant canon? Luther's canon? Marcion's canon? The Assyrian canon? The Georgian Orthodox canon? The Ebionite canon? Origen's canon? Athanasius' canon?

"Which is the correct, authoritative canon?" That's one question I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on this site.

I could get along ok with just the 4 Gospels of the Christian NT.

You and the Jews can have the OT

2Cr 3:
13
unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14
But their minds were blinded.
For until this day, the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament,
because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15
But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead. The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.
But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection.

This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.
Yeshua ends this parable abruptly, with no real resolution presented.



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[Messy]

The 11/12 Jewish apostles were sent to the Gentiles by Messiah (see Mt 28:18-20), and He commanded them to teach the Gentiles to observe everything He taught them.

You don't read Acts too?
What's the problem with Paul? And if he was sent to the gentiles, why bother read his letters? He explains it to gentiles who don't understand the Torah. I don't bother so much to read the Old Testament.

 

[ananda]

You don't read Acts too?

I was referring to Matthew 28:18-20. What do you do with those verses? Messiah clearly wanted the Gentiles to know and observe the same Way of salvation as He taught His Jewish apostles.

What's the problem with Paul? And if he was sent to the gentiles, why bother read his letters? He explains it to gentiles who don't understand the Torah. I don't bother so much to read the Old Testament.

Messiah commanded us to avoid the teachings of the Pharisees.

 

[Frogster]

I was referring to Matthew 28:18-20. What do you do with those verses? Messiah clearly wanted the Gentiles to know and observe the same Way of salvation as He taught His Jewish apostles.

Messiah commanded us to avoid the teachings of the Pharisees.

and it was the way of salvation by faith, not LAW, the jews stumbled over the law. Jesus, Peter, and Paul agree.


Matt 21:42 Jesus said to them, &#8220;Have you never read in the Scriptures:

&#8220;&#8216;The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doiing.
and it is marvelous in our eyes&#8217;?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.



Romans 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,

&#8220;Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.&#8221;



1 Peter 2:7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

&#8220;The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,'8 and
&#8220;A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.&#8221;

 

[Frogster]

I could get along ok with just the 4 Gospels of the Christian NT.

You and the Jews can have the OT

2Cr 3:
13
unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14
But their minds were blinded.
For until this day, the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament,
because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15
But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead. The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.
But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection.

This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.
Yeshua ends this parable abruptly, with no real resolution presented.



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